Where are all the tiny hot hatches.
Discussion
Not that long ago you could get a tiny light weight car that was a blast to drive and quick.
For example
106 gti 130 bhp ish and around 980kg
The vts Saxo much the same.
Starlet turbo
Even the metro gti had 105 bhp and weighed the same as a matchbox.
With the exception of the 500 arbarth I think they do a 160 bhp version.
Everything has got heavier bigger and has less power.
Why when focus size hatches have upwards of 300 bhp?
Why no 200 bhp Peugeot 107 or Citroen c1.
For example
106 gti 130 bhp ish and around 980kg
The vts Saxo much the same.
Starlet turbo
Even the metro gti had 105 bhp and weighed the same as a matchbox.
With the exception of the 500 arbarth I think they do a 160 bhp version.
Everything has got heavier bigger and has less power.
Why when focus size hatches have upwards of 300 bhp?
Why no 200 bhp Peugeot 107 or Citroen c1.
LordHaveMurci said:
Renault Twingo was the 1st thing that sprang into my head, turns out it was discontinued in 2013 due to poor sales - maybe that answers your question OP?
Wasn't it discontinued due to a completely new model coming out.That one should be pretty cool, rear engine, RWD with a little turbo engine.
I understand the reasons that cars have got heavier but why has the power not come up to compensate.
An UP GTI with say 180-200 bhp would be an ace little car.
Not everyone that want a fast hatch wants a 300 bhp plus focus size car.
Say a 1.6 turbo In a 107 around 180 bhp must be in a lower tax bracket than the focus size car. It wouldn't need to have much more kit than the standard car just the option of nav,some nice seats and a good styling kit.
An UP GTI with say 180-200 bhp would be an ace little car.
Not everyone that want a fast hatch wants a 300 bhp plus focus size car.
Say a 1.6 turbo In a 107 around 180 bhp must be in a lower tax bracket than the focus size car. It wouldn't need to have much more kit than the standard car just the option of nav,some nice seats and a good styling kit.
EnthusiastOwned said:
Needs about another 50 or so bhp. jhfozzy said:
It is shocking how the weight of these newer small cars has crept up.
My 1999 Evo VI weighs virtually the same as a Corsa VXR, 1260kg (Evo) vs 1223kg (Corsa) yet has about 110hp more.
they have all also got much biggerMy 1999 Evo VI weighs virtually the same as a Corsa VXR, 1260kg (Evo) vs 1223kg (Corsa) yet has about 110hp more.
my OH's polo is as big as my MKII golf GTi 16v
the Mk7 golf is huge, probably as big as the A4 10 years ago
the current 5 series BMW and A6 audi totally fill a normal car parking space, there like transit vans with car bodies lol
hoppo4.2 said:
EnthusiastOwned said:
Needs about another 50 or so bhp. hoppo4.2 said:
Not that long ago you could get a tiny light weight car that was a blast to drive and quick.
For example
106 gti 130 bhp ish and around 980kg
The vts Saxo much the same.
My bet is the traditional buyers of Saxo VTRs when they were new were barely 25 and took advantage of Citreons 0% finance and FREE insurance otherwise I doubt they would have seen the same sales success.For example
106 gti 130 bhp ish and around 980kg
The vts Saxo much the same.
The new Renault Twingo and almost every other supermini with the exception of the MG3 gets 4* NCAP and weigh barely 1000Kg which is very very impressive as far as I'm concerned when the Saxo got 2* and that was being generous based on some of the crashed examples I've seen!!
Also consider that a current Corsa VXR is the same kind of size as a Golf from 2 generations ago so maybe the tiny hot hatches are still about but they just arent so tiny when compared to fat ass Focus/Golfs that managed to appear huge on the outside and dont really offer anymore leg room or boot space than a mk2 Golf!
aka_kerrly said:
hoppo4.2 said:
Not that long ago you could get a tiny light weight car that was a blast to drive and quick.
For example
106 gti 130 bhp ish and around 980kg
The vts Saxo much the same.
My bet is the traditional buyers of Saxo VTRs when they were new were barely 25 and took advantage of Citreons 0% finance and FREE insurance otherwise I doubt they would have seen the same sales success.For example
106 gti 130 bhp ish and around 980kg
The vts Saxo much the same.
The new Renault Twingo and almost every other supermini with the exception of the MG3 gets 4* NCAP and weigh barely 1000Kg which is very very impressive as far as I'm concerned when the Saxo got 2* and that was being generous based on some of the crashed examples I've seen!!
Also consider that a current Corsa VXR is the same kind of size as a Golf from 2 generations ago so maybe the tiny hot hatches are still about but they just arent so tiny when compared to fat ass Focus/Golfs that managed to appear huge on the outside and dont really offer anymore leg room or boot space than a mk2 Golf!
I never paid a moments thought to the crash protection, but then, nor would I now
Interesting thread. I'd love a modern equivalent of the Alfasud or mk1 Golf GTi 1.8 or Strada Abarth. Simple, relatively lightweight, doesn't actually need 300bhp. Have had great fun in lower powered lightweight hatches on narrow challenging roads over the years.
What about modern equivalent to simple basic rwd cars such as Mk1 Escort RS1600, RS2000, Chevette HS, Firenza and Magnum 2.3s, Lotus Sunbeams, Toyota Corolla Coupe 16v with lsd, Dolomite Sprint, etc? The BMW 1 or 3 series seems to be all there is.
What about modern equivalent to simple basic rwd cars such as Mk1 Escort RS1600, RS2000, Chevette HS, Firenza and Magnum 2.3s, Lotus Sunbeams, Toyota Corolla Coupe 16v with lsd, Dolomite Sprint, etc? The BMW 1 or 3 series seems to be all there is.
quiraing said:
What about modern equivalent to simple basic rwd cars such as Mk1 Escort RS1600, RS2000, Chevette HS, Firenza and Magnum 2.3s, Lotus Sunbeams, Toyota Corolla Coupe 16v with lsd, Dolomite Sprint, etc? The BMW 1 or 3 series seems to be all there is.
Hopefully we'll get a Renaultsport Twingo. Something like 1000kg and 150bhp would be good. 
Edited by kambites on Friday 13th February 19:04
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