RE: Lexus RC F vs BMW M4
Discussion
Schnellmann said:
If you apply this sort of (sensible) logic then you would of course end up buying a 330D or 335D instead of the M4 as they would be as good as or better than the M4 in those areas, not any slower on the road and deliver better (if not great) economy.
You start using logic and new performance cars stop making sense. 
If I had the cash then instead of the M3, I'd buy a 320d. I'd then buy a relatively cheap RWD track car. I get all the benefits of a new 3 series, and un-compromised RWD track day fun, with far lower costs.I really like the looks of the Lexus. Also having heard nothing but praise about Lexus customer service and the reliability of their vehicles it's much more appealing than the M4.
The weight of the car and the lack of tuning potential in a NA engine do put me off. And reviews from Chris Harris and Matt Farah have been fairly negative. Mostly pointing to the weight of the car.
The one big factor for me will be residual values. I think they will drop in value significantly and become a used bargain in 3yrs. Can't see them being in high demand with competition from BMW, Audi and MB.
The weight of the car and the lack of tuning potential in a NA engine do put me off. And reviews from Chris Harris and Matt Farah have been fairly negative. Mostly pointing to the weight of the car.
The one big factor for me will be residual values. I think they will drop in value significantly and become a used bargain in 3yrs. Can't see them being in high demand with competition from BMW, Audi and MB.
CarAbuser said:
I really like the looks of the Lexus. Also having heard nothing but praise about Lexus customer service and the reliability of their vehicles it's much more appealing than the M4.
The weight of the car and the lack of tuning potential in a NA engine do put me off. And reviews from Chris Harris and Matt Farah have been fairly negative. Mostly pointing to the weight of the car.
The one big factor for me will be residual values. I think they will drop in value significantly and become a used bargain in 3yrs. Can't see them being in high demand with competition from BMW, Audi and MB.
I think you'll find ISF values are holding higher than equivalent M3's, if anything I've seen a climb in ISF value over the past couple of years. So if this is anything to go by...The weight of the car and the lack of tuning potential in a NA engine do put me off. And reviews from Chris Harris and Matt Farah have been fairly negative. Mostly pointing to the weight of the car.
The one big factor for me will be residual values. I think they will drop in value significantly and become a used bargain in 3yrs. Can't see them being in high demand with competition from BMW, Audi and MB.
Also, is the weight really than much of an issue on the road? It only made marginal difference on the track. Plus, I'm pretty sure the M3/M4 weigh in at a more realistic 1600+kg, once a few options have been ticked. Still a couple hundred kilos lighter than RC-F admittedly.
kambites said:
danielj58 said:
Fair enough, this has been a trend for the last decade though, filtering down from the supercar elite. In the next few years we'll be saying the same of hot hatches I imagine.
I think we already are. It'd be nice to think the M2 will be a bit more... exploitable, but I'm pretty sure BMW will continue down the path of chasing numbers at the expense of fun.
BMW really need to make a small sports car again so the M division can have something interesting to play with. I'd love to see a Z2 - something alone the lines of the original Z3 but less... crap than the Z3 cabriolet. I think the Z3 coupe was the last BMW I genuinely desired.
Edited by kambites on Monday 23 February 10:12
Agreed, the joy of the last 1series was that the 30i and 35i engines we're really pushing what the chassis could handle. I enjoyed the z3 (in both forms), trailing arm rear made it an absolute riot but also ruined some pairs of trousers... Never drove an M, but the 30i was fast enough for me!
Thinking about it that about sums it up, some of the best BMWs I've driven have been perfectly planted and poised chassis that have had a ridiculously big engine lumped in them; perhaps not on the same level as AMG, because that perfect chassis is always there, just the engine has the ability to demolish traction.
That's what we need BMW! None of these fancy torque vectoring diffs and multipoint suspension setups, give us trailing arm, decent tyres and solid bushes
Cable said:
Also, is the weight really than much of an issue on the road? It only made marginal difference on the track. Plus, I'm pretty sure the M3/M4 weigh in at a more realistic 1600+kg, once a few options have been ticked. Still a couple hundred kilos lighter than RC-F admittedly.
Unnoticeable on the road I imagine. I think the conditions and the trick diff in the Lexus perhaps helped in masking the weight penalty on track though.I think of it as being a plus that the RC F isn't as track focused.
I wish reviewers would focus less on track performance for these cars. I can see why a Lotus or a 911 GT3 might be rated for track ability but to my eyes M/AMG/RS cars are distinctly performance road cars that may see one lap of the ring at most in their lifetime.
I wish reviewers would focus less on track performance for these cars. I can see why a Lotus or a 911 GT3 might be rated for track ability but to my eyes M/AMG/RS cars are distinctly performance road cars that may see one lap of the ring at most in their lifetime.
tosh.brice said:
Why is this re-dated as a Monday post? I'm sure I saw it last week!
You saw this? Lexus RC F vs BMW M4: Pic Of The Weekhttp://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?t=148...
CarAbuser said:
I think of it as being a plus that the RC F isn't as track focused.
I wish reviewers would focus less on track performance for these cars. I can see why a Lotus or a 911 GT3 might be rated for track ability but to my eyes M/AMG/RS cars are distinctly performance road cars that may see one lap of the ring at most in their lifetime.
+1I wish reviewers would focus less on track performance for these cars. I can see why a Lotus or a 911 GT3 might be rated for track ability but to my eyes M/AMG/RS cars are distinctly performance road cars that may see one lap of the ring at most in their lifetime.
Clearly this review puts the Lexus on top. We've got to the point where the power advantage of the fastest cars in a group is no longer important as cars, in general, have got so silly fast that it's meaningless. The Lexus has something that the BMW just does not have. It has madness! And character. And the best dealers. It does matter. My mum and Dad have a battered old RX300 which they have serviced pretty cheaply at Lexus/Toyota. The dealer staff are just in another league from BMW/Audi/Mercedes. Anybody would think they actually value their customers. Polite, ORGANISED, helpful and pleasant and if they cock something up, they admit it. The car comes back properly cleaned. I'd have the Lexus without a moments thought - in a bland, dark colour, with the diff. The M3/M4 do nothing for me. I think Lexus will actually shift a fair few despite the 'questionable' looks.
I wonder with all this talk about the sound of the M3/4 whether BMW will make some kind of adjustment in the next facelift. Especially if the C63 comes rumbling.
In saying that I have never driven an M3. I drove a M135i hard and thought it sounded great! Only months later did I know it had a sound enhancer or whatever.
I have driven and been driven in a RCF round a track and the sound is glorious, especially the downshifts.
There is more to a car than the sound though. However, at this level it does help!
In saying that I have never driven an M3. I drove a M135i hard and thought it sounded great! Only months later did I know it had a sound enhancer or whatever.
I have driven and been driven in a RCF round a track and the sound is glorious, especially the downshifts.
There is more to a car than the sound though. However, at this level it does help!
Major T , £1295 is for adaptive cruise. The RC-F comes with cruise as standard. Just got a demo RC-F ( with Torque vectoring diff) if anyone fancies a look/try. Had nothing but positive comments on the car "looks better in the flesh than the pictures" is a very common comment.....the V8 sounds superb too.
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