Do you 'engage' with cyclists?
Discussion
Dammit said:
[snip]
Finlandia is another example of someone who hasn't actually thought about what they are typing, they just wanted to vomit a chunk of anti-cyclist invective into the thread.
If he or she had thought about it they'd realise that the time spent in the opposite lane by the car during the overtake is halved by cyclists riding two abreast - so it's actually making the maneuver significantly safer for the motorist.
The thought processes are more on the lines of, "If summat comes along, I'll just move over and knock 'em into the ditch. Better than having an accident".Finlandia is another example of someone who hasn't actually thought about what they are typing, they just wanted to vomit a chunk of anti-cyclist invective into the thread.
If he or she had thought about it they'd realise that the time spent in the opposite lane by the car during the overtake is halved by cyclists riding two abreast - so it's actually making the maneuver significantly safer for the motorist.
budgie smuggler said:
Finlandia said:
The only real issue I have with cyclists is when they ride two or more abreast, sometimes even in a formation of rolling leader changes of up to four riders wide, on a normal 30+ single lane road, so you can't overtake them safely.
If you want to cycle like in a competition, do it on a track.
If they'd have been single file you'd presumably still have to enter the opposing lane, except it'd be for 4 bike lengths, rather than 1. If you want to cycle like in a competition, do it on a track.
yonex said:
You mean like joggers...a marathon for example, which closes various major routes around the world for people's enjoyment. Pavements are for walking on, why was my morning walk to the shops disturbed etc, etc, rage, rage.....
Nothing like a balanced discussion
Nope.Nothing like a balanced discussion
The answer is much closer to you than that!
Dammit said:
Finlandia is another example of someone who hasn't actually thought about what they are typing, they just wanted to vomit a chunk of anti-cyclist invective into the thread.
If he or she had thought about it they'd realise that the time spent in the opposite lane by the car during the overtake is halved by cyclists riding two abreast - so it's actually making the maneuver significantly safer for the motorist.
Read what I wrote again, think it through, maybe you will get it.If he or she had thought about it they'd realise that the time spent in the opposite lane by the car during the overtake is halved by cyclists riding two abreast - so it's actually making the maneuver significantly safer for the motorist.
Finlandia said:
The only real issue I have with cyclists is when they ride two or more abreast, sometimes even in a formation of rolling leader changes of up to four riders wide, on a normal 30+ single lane road, so you can't overtake them safely.
If you want to cycle like in a competition, do it on a track.
If you want to cycle like in a competition, do it on a track.
I dont want to comment as I feel this turned into trolls pages ago. I am another cyclist and motorist.
I use those words carefully, cyclist and motorist. I am signed up with british cycling thus insured, I have ROSPA training for the car (and HGV license).
A cyclist and a motorist have no issue on the road, as both know the rules and what to do in each situation.
When on the bike I see countless cars who either don't care/don't notice or panic when passing a bike. As an example there is a road I use riding down into Leamington (Tachbrook road), it has a cycle path but it crosses so many side roads and has a horrible surface that I simply choose not to use it, I would also like to point out I average 20mph+ as its slightly downhill. There is a couple of pinch points and it seems a pure lack of observation on the motorists part who either don't see the pinch point or misjudge my speed, its not a great feeling having a mirror in your kidney at 20mph wearing fashionable lycra.
By the same token when driving I see people on bikes carrying out manoeuvres I wouldn't dream of doing thus endangering themselves.
In my humble opinion several things need to happen:
- Educating motorists better on what to do.
- Educating cyclists better on what to do.
- Not simply giving councils money per mile of 'cycle path' and forcing them to do it properly and sensibly.
Also the helmet camera thing, I disagree completely with militant cyclists posting videos of careless drivers and arguments, that will never help ease any tension between the two parties. However the law as it currently stands finds it very hard to prosecute motorists based on hearsay evidence. I am about to buy one and I hope I will never have to view the footage, as at that point it would be classed as evidence.
Also I doubt (sincerely hope) any offending parties are PH members but it may surprise you how many people think its hilarious to hang out the passenger window of their mates car and shout abuse at you for literally no reason.
There is more bikes on the road, I don't think they are going anywhere, all parties need to make peace with it and deal with it and stop bickering.
I use those words carefully, cyclist and motorist. I am signed up with british cycling thus insured, I have ROSPA training for the car (and HGV license).
A cyclist and a motorist have no issue on the road, as both know the rules and what to do in each situation.
When on the bike I see countless cars who either don't care/don't notice or panic when passing a bike. As an example there is a road I use riding down into Leamington (Tachbrook road), it has a cycle path but it crosses so many side roads and has a horrible surface that I simply choose not to use it, I would also like to point out I average 20mph+ as its slightly downhill. There is a couple of pinch points and it seems a pure lack of observation on the motorists part who either don't see the pinch point or misjudge my speed, its not a great feeling having a mirror in your kidney at 20mph wearing fashionable lycra.
By the same token when driving I see people on bikes carrying out manoeuvres I wouldn't dream of doing thus endangering themselves.
In my humble opinion several things need to happen:
- Educating motorists better on what to do.
- Educating cyclists better on what to do.
- Not simply giving councils money per mile of 'cycle path' and forcing them to do it properly and sensibly.
Also the helmet camera thing, I disagree completely with militant cyclists posting videos of careless drivers and arguments, that will never help ease any tension between the two parties. However the law as it currently stands finds it very hard to prosecute motorists based on hearsay evidence. I am about to buy one and I hope I will never have to view the footage, as at that point it would be classed as evidence.
Also I doubt (sincerely hope) any offending parties are PH members but it may surprise you how many people think its hilarious to hang out the passenger window of their mates car and shout abuse at you for literally no reason.
There is more bikes on the road, I don't think they are going anywhere, all parties need to make peace with it and deal with it and stop bickering.
Finlandia said:
budgie smuggler said:
Finlandia said:
The only real issue I have with cyclists is when they ride two or more abreast, sometimes even in a formation of rolling leader changes of up to four riders wide, on a normal 30+ single lane road, so you can't overtake them safely.
If you want to cycle like in a competition, do it on a track.
If they'd have been single file you'd presumably still have to enter the opposing lane, except it'd be for 4 bike lengths, rather than 1. If you want to cycle like in a competition, do it on a track.
Perhaps this makes it clearer:
eddieantifreeze said:
I dont want to comment as I feel this turned into trolls pages ago. I am another cyclist and motorist.
I use those words carefully, cyclist and motorist. I am signed up with british cycling thus insured, I have ROSPA training for the car (and HGV license).
A cyclist and a motorist have no issue on the road, as both know the rules and what to do in each situation.
When on the bike I see countless cars who either don't care/don't notice or panic when passing a bike. As an example there is a road I use riding down into Leamington (Tachbrook road), it has a cycle path but it crosses so many side roads and has a horrible surface that I simply choose not to use it, I would also like to point out I average 20mph+ as its slightly downhill. There is a couple of pinch points and it seems a pure lack of observation on the motorists part who either don't see the pinch point or misjudge my speed, its not a great feeling having a mirror in your kidney at 20mph wearing fashionable lycra.
By the same token when driving I see people on bikes carrying out manoeuvres I wouldn't dream of doing thus endangering themselves.
In my humble opinion several things need to happen:
- Educating motorists better on what to do.
- Educating cyclists better on what to do.
- Not simply giving councils money per mile of 'cycle path' and forcing them to do it properly and sensibly.
Also the helmet camera thing, I disagree completely with militant cyclists posting videos of careless drivers and arguments, that will never help ease any tension between the two parties. However the law as it currently stands finds it very hard to prosecute motorists based on hearsay evidence. I am about to buy one and I hope I will never have to view the footage, as at that point it would be classed as evidence.
Also I doubt (sincerely hope) any offending parties are PH members but it may surprise you how many people think its hilarious to hang out the passenger window of their mates car and shout abuse at you for literally no reason.
There is more bikes on the road, I don't think they are going anywhere, all parties need to make peace with it and deal with it and stop bickering.
As you've implied though. There are pricks on either side of the divide. As ever in society, the actions of the minority tend to get lazily extrapolated across the majority. Trouble is that there are a lot more motorists than cyclists so that there will always been a nob imbalance in favour of the most dangerous of the pair...I use those words carefully, cyclist and motorist. I am signed up with british cycling thus insured, I have ROSPA training for the car (and HGV license).
A cyclist and a motorist have no issue on the road, as both know the rules and what to do in each situation.
When on the bike I see countless cars who either don't care/don't notice or panic when passing a bike. As an example there is a road I use riding down into Leamington (Tachbrook road), it has a cycle path but it crosses so many side roads and has a horrible surface that I simply choose not to use it, I would also like to point out I average 20mph+ as its slightly downhill. There is a couple of pinch points and it seems a pure lack of observation on the motorists part who either don't see the pinch point or misjudge my speed, its not a great feeling having a mirror in your kidney at 20mph wearing fashionable lycra.
By the same token when driving I see people on bikes carrying out manoeuvres I wouldn't dream of doing thus endangering themselves.
In my humble opinion several things need to happen:
- Educating motorists better on what to do.
- Educating cyclists better on what to do.
- Not simply giving councils money per mile of 'cycle path' and forcing them to do it properly and sensibly.
Also the helmet camera thing, I disagree completely with militant cyclists posting videos of careless drivers and arguments, that will never help ease any tension between the two parties. However the law as it currently stands finds it very hard to prosecute motorists based on hearsay evidence. I am about to buy one and I hope I will never have to view the footage, as at that point it would be classed as evidence.
Also I doubt (sincerely hope) any offending parties are PH members but it may surprise you how many people think its hilarious to hang out the passenger window of their mates car and shout abuse at you for literally no reason.
There is more bikes on the road, I don't think they are going anywhere, all parties need to make peace with it and deal with it and stop bickering.
Mr Will said:
Finlandia said:
budgie smuggler said:
Finlandia said:
The only real issue I have with cyclists is when they ride two or more abreast, sometimes even in a formation of rolling leader changes of up to four riders wide, on a normal 30+ single lane road, so you can't overtake them safely.
If you want to cycle like in a competition, do it on a track.
If they'd have been single file you'd presumably still have to enter the opposing lane, except it'd be for 4 bike lengths, rather than 1. If you want to cycle like in a competition, do it on a track.
Perhaps this makes it clearer:
Two abreast is fine, depending on the width of the road, three or more is not.
Dammit said:
I think a lot of people in this thread would benefit from reading Daniel Kahneman's Thinking fast and slow.
It's a great book on it's own merits, and very interesting in it's portrayal of two distinct systems of thought, which he calls system one and system two - one instinctive, the other logical.
The OP in this thread is whining about being held up by a cyclist - at rush hour.
So it's quite clear that he or she hasn't actually applied any logical thought to this - at rush hour, in London, bicycles travel significantly faster than cars, vans etc, if you look at average speeds.
Finlandia is another example of someone who hasn't actually thought about what they are typing, they just wanted to vomit a chunk of anti-cyclist invective into the thread.
If he or she had thought about it they'd realise that the time spent in the opposite lane by the car during the overtake is halved by cyclists riding two abreast - so it's actually making the maneuver significantly safer for the motorist.
What's the average speed of a car in London now, 7.5MPH? The day I can only average 7.5MPH on my bicycle is the day I retire...It's a great book on it's own merits, and very interesting in it's portrayal of two distinct systems of thought, which he calls system one and system two - one instinctive, the other logical.
The OP in this thread is whining about being held up by a cyclist - at rush hour.
So it's quite clear that he or she hasn't actually applied any logical thought to this - at rush hour, in London, bicycles travel significantly faster than cars, vans etc, if you look at average speeds.
Finlandia is another example of someone who hasn't actually thought about what they are typing, they just wanted to vomit a chunk of anti-cyclist invective into the thread.
If he or she had thought about it they'd realise that the time spent in the opposite lane by the car during the overtake is halved by cyclists riding two abreast - so it's actually making the maneuver significantly safer for the motorist.
Hol said:
Nope.
The answer is much closer to you than that!
Of course, it wouldn't be the same being critical of any sport you are involved with but one still that impacts on others, a point which you are laboring it has to be said.The answer is much closer to you than that!
Is it just the things that you enjoy personally that have immunity?
Finlandia said:
GC8 said:
I've always taken it to be that their real gripe was that they couldn't pass the cyclist as though they weren't even there. Not great.
I have no problems overtaking cyclist safely, but when they are taking up half the road or more in their formation it's another story. 
Finlandia said:
What about the latter part of my post? I've even seen cyclist taking up most of the width of the road, so the oncoming traffic needs to slow down or stop.
Two abreast is fine, depending on the width of the road, three or more is not.
This sort of clip makes me laugh. This is exactly what we are up against. So the club doesn't have quite the discipline they could have but it is not terrible. The hold up is about 30s to 60s at worst, I mean seriously is that too much to ask for? Horses, trucks, caravans, tractors, pedestrians, roadworks, accidents all bring delays of one sort or another. To not be able to deal with it shows a lack of the most basic driving requirements.Two abreast is fine, depending on the width of the road, three or more is not.
Finlandia said:
What about the latter part of my post? I've even seen cyclist taking up most of the width of the road, so the oncoming traffic needs to slow down or stop.
Two abreast is fine, depending on the width of the road, three or more is not.
If they are on their own side of the white line then it shouldn't affect oncoming traffic.Two abreast is fine, depending on the width of the road, three or more is not.
If you are talking single track roads where there is no white line and two cars would be forced to slow and move over then I don't see the difference.
If they are crossing the white line then they should do it in the same fashion as a car would - only when there is nothing oncoming that will be inconvenienced.
If they really are blocking both lanes of a two lane road then they are being inconsiderate a
holes - they do exist in all walks of life.Hol said:
We were trying to think of another walk of life where a minority group of people insists that everybody everybody revolve around their needs, so that they can behave like spoilt children and insult everyone.
We couldn't come up with anything else in this century.
How does repeating your comment answer my question?We couldn't come up with anything else in this century.
yonex said:
Hol said:
Nope.
The answer is much closer to you than that!
Of course, it wouldn't be the same being critical of any sport you are involved with but one still that impacts on others, a point which you are laboring it has to be said.The answer is much closer to you than that!
Is it just the things that you enjoy personally that have immunity?
If you care/bother to notice I have not defended running at all in any thread.
I once had some cyclists on PH try to insult me and bait me into an argument with them, when I suggested running was good for you.
That conversation then went on to insult anyone who goes to the gym, or indeed any other exercise, that was NOT cycling. But I digress.
Its you that is constantly defending a biased view with impunity and ALSO attempting to subvert view from that clearly obvious fact by claiming that I do the same for runners.
BTW. I have never had a cyclist raise their hand at me in anger, when I have been driving past them, nor given one cause to. As a pedestrian, I see lots of numpties on bikes.
I will add that I never realised that some militant cyclysts WERE so biggoted and selfish until I started reading some of the threads on Pistonheads.
To my own shame, I have sometimes responded in kind.
If you have some real questions about my road manners - feel free to ask.
If you want to continue throwing mud and lies - f
k off. Edited by Hol on Friday 27th February 11:59
GC8 said:
Finlandia said:
GC8 said:
I've always taken it to be that their real gripe was that they couldn't pass the cyclist as though they weren't even there. Not great.
I have no problems overtaking cyclist safely, but when they are taking up half the road or more in their formation it's another story. Maybe some sort of explanation is required still, in a car overtaking is swift and safe, but with a HGV it's a bit different. While a quick stab of the rightmost pedal in a car will quickly see you from 20 and up, and the cyclists are a disappearing dot in your mirrors, try taking a fully laden HGV from 20 and past a formation.
Hang back and wait for an opportunity, but then the schedule is out the window and the cars stuck behind the HGV are starting to make silly things.
yonex said:
Finlandia said:
What about the latter part of my post? I've even seen cyclist taking up most of the width of the road, so the oncoming traffic needs to slow down or stop.
Two abreast is fine, depending on the width of the road, three or more is not.
This sort of clip makes me laugh. This is exactly what we are up against. So the club doesn't have quite the discipline they could have but it is not terrible. The hold up is about 30s to 60s at worst, I mean seriously is that too much to ask for? Horses, trucks, caravans, tractors, pedestrians, roadworks, accidents all bring delays of one sort or another. To not be able to deal with it shows a lack of the most basic driving requirements.Two abreast is fine, depending on the width of the road, three or more is not.
Hol said:
Actually,
If you care/bother to notice I have not defended running at all in any thread.
I once had some cyclists on PH try to insult me and bait me into an argument with them, when I suggested running was good for you.
That conversation then went on to insult anyone who goes to the gym, or indeed any other exercise, that was NOT cycling. But I digress.
Was that the Boardman thread? Where you referred to my opinion as "wIf you care/bother to notice I have not defended running at all in any thread.
I once had some cyclists on PH try to insult me and bait me into an argument with them, when I suggested running was good for you.
That conversation then went on to insult anyone who goes to the gym, or indeed any other exercise, that was NOT cycling. But I digress.
kerish in the extreme" because I implied some people may not have enough self motivation to regularly run or go to the gym? And later said "the only people throwing insults around on this thread are the cyclists"? :-) Gassing Station | General Gassing | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff