RE: Subaru BRZ v Toyota GT86: Delivery Miles

RE: Subaru BRZ v Toyota GT86: Delivery Miles

Thursday 26th February 2015

Subaru BRZ v Toyota GT86: Delivery Miles

The era of the sub-£20K new Subaru BRZ is here - and the GT86 isn't far behind. Will they sell now?



It's no secret that Toyota is bitterly disappointed by the market's reaction to the GT86. The Japanese giant really thought it had hit the sweet spot with enthusiasts. Their response? A big kick in the teeth by resolutely not buying it. The ingrates!

Used BRZs for £18K, new ones at £20K!
Used BRZs for £18K, new ones at £20K!
While we wait for Toyota to stick a turbo on the engine and at last give PHers the power they've been craving, there's plenty of support for you if you do fancy a new Toyota GT86 (or its identical twin, the Subaru BRZ). Both Toyota and Subaru have been pursuing aggressive price policies of late, each company conjuring up new entry-level versions priced at £22,495 (for the Subaru BRZ SE) and £22,995 (for the Toyota GT86 Primo).

But prices are now going even lower. Toyota is currently offering £1,000 off the list price of the GT86 if you take out finance, but there are some even more tempting deals out there.

Not least from Subaru dealers. The sub-£20K new BRZ is now a reality: in fact just £19,495 buys you a BRZ SE with only seven miles on the clock. No waiting list to join, and you have the peace of mind that it's from an official Subaru dealer.

Considering the cheapest BRZ in the classifieds at the moment is £17,989 for a 2012 example with 11,000 miles, that looks sensational value.

GT86s are under £15,000...
GT86s are under £15,000...
Used GT86s go even cheaper. The equivalent (2012, 12,000-mile) GT86 will cost you just £16,490, while the very cheapest used GT86s now start as low as £15K.

But what about GT86 prices new? A Toyota dealer is offering effectively a brand new GT86 (with a quoted mileage of 100) for just £20,995, and there's even a suggestion on the dealer's website that you might be able to negotiate a lower price than this.

The same dealer has a sub-2,000-mile 64-plate Giallo edition for £25,995. It's one of only 86 ever available in the UK, so it's got rarity value too. Perhaps even more dramatic is the GT86 Aero. I had an outrageously bodykitted GT86 TRD on test last summer, and it was comfortably the most gawped-at car I had all year. The Aero apes the TRD look without exactly replicating it, adding side skirts, OZ alloys and a massive rear spoiler (it's either your bag or it isn't). The Aero's list price is £27,495, so £23,991 for a 3,000-mile example looks pretty good to me.

At these prices, surely the GT86's time has come - or are we all going to continue ignoring it?


 


Author
Discussion

sandman77

Original Poster:

2,366 posts

137 months

Thursday 26th February 2015
quotequote all
Why arent these selling? I just don't get it. I would have one over a 4 series BMW or Audi A5 any day. Plus I would be £10k better off.


Johnnytheboy

24,498 posts

185 months

Thursday 26th February 2015
quotequote all
People have been spoiled by years of torquey cars.

kambites

67,461 posts

220 months

Thursday 26th February 2015
quotequote all
sandman77 said:
Why arent these selling? I just don't get it. I would have one over a 4 series BMW or Audi A5 any day. Plus I would be £10k better off.
That's not really the right comparison to make. The huuuuge majority of 4-series or A5s are diesels used for pounding the motorways and impressing the neighbours neither of which the GT86 is very good at. biggrin

I think it has the same problem that Lotus have selling cars in the UK - it's USP is something which will only really appeal to driving enthusiasts and there aren't enough of them.

Triumph Man

8,670 posts

167 months

Thursday 26th February 2015
quotequote all
sandman77 said:
Why arent these selling? I just don't get it. I would have one over a 4 series BMW or Audi A5 any day. Plus I would be £10k better off.
Because these so called "enthusiasts" complain that 200 bhp is "not enough" and it should be turbocharged and producing 400 bhp!! Which is completely missing the point.

LordGrover

33,532 posts

211 months

Thursday 26th February 2015
quotequote all
They're great little cars and many people claim to like them, but as reported not many actually buy them - not even used. frown

s m

23,164 posts

202 months

Thursday 26th February 2015
quotequote all
sandman77 said:
Why arent these selling? I just don't get it. I would have one over a 4 series BMW or Audi A5 any day. Plus I would be £10k better off.
Have you bought one?

Jordan210

4,503 posts

182 months

Thursday 26th February 2015
quotequote all
I really wanted to like these when I went to look at them but the interior let them down massively. Felt cheap sadly. Even the GF agreed that it looked cheap.


kambites

67,461 posts

220 months

Thursday 26th February 2015
quotequote all
Jordan210 said:
I really wanted to like these when I went to look at them but the interior let them down massively. Felt cheap sadly. Even the GF agreed that it looked cheap.
It feels cheap because it is cheap - it's a £20k car where the money has been spent on the chassis rather than the interior. The problem is most people care far more about the interior than the chassis.

Jwhite84

14 posts

118 months

Thursday 26th February 2015
quotequote all
The reason they aren't selling is because the type of person who buys this type of car typically buys second hand. This explains why they aren't selling well whilst the second prices are still quite high. I personally would love one as a track car, as rear wheel drive, light weight and NA tick a lot of boxes for me, but second high prices don't seem to be dropping much (probably because other people have a similar idea).

I suppose the fact that the MX5 sells so well would go against this, but the MX5 is a convertible and is attractive to girls as well as guys. I can't really see the GT86/BRZ as a girls car so the showroom demand for the GT86/BRZ must be weaker.

Hol

8,360 posts

199 months

Thursday 26th February 2015
quotequote all
Yes, it needs more power, to make it attractive as a first car.

Otherwise, its only going to be as appealing as a Clio 182 was, but at a higher relative price. A good underpowered chassis, but not the first car choice for a family of four, no matter how many DINKY's like it, or thinks its great.


Worse,
the market is sauturated with more powerful Golf R's, AMG45's and M135's that people have picked up on lease deals for almost the same monsy as the depreciation on a GT86. (24months at £250 = £6,000).
In a years time, those cars will be flooding the second hand market.





kambites

67,461 posts

220 months

Thursday 26th February 2015
quotequote all
I think the MX5 primarily appeals to a different group of people. Yes, it drives reasonably well but I suspect most new buyers neither know nor care; they just want a pretty, comfortable, reliable two-seater convertible with a reasonable sized boot and with those requirements, there really isn't much competition.

OwenK

3,472 posts

194 months

Thursday 26th February 2015
quotequote all
Who knows the situation with manufacturer warranty on these? I love the idea of one but I just don't like it all that much in standard form. Yet the aftermarket can offer many many things that make it into the car I want to buy. Obviously Toyota aren't going to pay for an engine rebuild if they discover I'm running a supercharger, but is there any scope to do anything to the car at all without inmediately losing your manufacturer protection?

Stupid question perhaps...

chrispmartha

15,361 posts

128 months

Thursday 26th February 2015
quotequote all
sandman77 said:
Why arent these selling? I just don't get it. I would have one over a 4 series BMW or Audi A5 any day. Plus I would be £10k better off.
Have you sat in one? they are not even close to either the Audi or BMW inside the cabin, they are cheap and nasty looking not a great place to sit. and having driven one and got back in my M135i, it felt underpowered and lacking refinement which is what a lot of people want from a car these days.

greeneggsnsam

617 posts

155 months

Thursday 26th February 2015
quotequote all
Here's another reason why they don't sell: finance. http://www.toyota.co.uk/new-cars/gt86-offers-finan...

The basic offer there is £443 a month with a near-£3k deposit.

The MX-5 (http://www.mazda.co.uk/offers/mazda-mx-5/?segment=new) has a basic offer of £300 a month with NO deposit at all.

kambites

67,461 posts

220 months

Thursday 26th February 2015
quotequote all
£29% BiK doesn't help either.

As much as I hate to say it (and as much as it would remove any appeal for me personally) what it needs in order to sell is a turbocharger to increase both power (to increase pub bragging rights rather than driver enjoyment) and NDEC MPG; probably strapped to a diesel engine.

Edited by kambites on Thursday 26th February 09:44

rallycross

12,747 posts

236 months

Thursday 26th February 2015
quotequote all
I just checked on autotrader and a lot of the main dealer GT86's listed on autotrader are automatic, this does not seem like a car that you'd chose with an auto box, anyone driven an auto v's manual?

Gutless high revving engines do not tend to work as an auto.

budgie smuggler

5,359 posts

158 months

Thursday 26th February 2015
quotequote all
I really like the ethos of the car. But having reached the point in life where I could afford to buy new, I find myself needing a car with 4 usable seats and preferably 4 doors. frown

I rather liked this mockup:

http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...


Pwig

11,956 posts

269 months

Thursday 26th February 2015
quotequote all
Hol said:
Yes, it needs more power, to make it attractive as a first car.

Otherwise, its only going to be as appealing as a Clio 182 was, but at a higher relative price. A good underpowered chassis, but not the first car choice for a family of four, no matter how many DINKY's like it, or thinks its great.


Worse,
the market is sauturated with more powerful Golf R's, AMG45's and M135's that people have picked up on lease deals for almost the same monsy as the depreciation on a GT86. (24months at £250 = £6,000).
In a years time, those cars will be flooding the second hand market.
This, it's very difficult to walk past a 300bhp Golf R at £250 a month to go and buy one of these at £400 + on a lease.

And I know this will make all you powerfully built goateed company directors squirm on your pile of cash, but most new cars are bought on finance.

You have to REALLY REALLY want one to justify one of these on a cost basis.

exceed

454 posts

175 months

Thursday 26th February 2015
quotequote all
People can go on about how people want a nice sporty car that ONLY has 200bhp, but the reality is in today's day and age who wants that kind of performance?

What they should have done is gone for the 2.5 boxer engine, and aimed for 250bhp as entry level. With a 320bhp turbo model, it creates a halo model and interests people in buying the slower model and modding it.

As it stands, you get kids that hanker after these but can't afford them, and grown ups that think that's a lovely car but I like to have some torque (read need more cruisability).

I just can't see an instance in a daily driver where you would be able to ring it out and actually enjoy, the reality is that Mr Audi A4 TDI will outdrag these on a dual carriageway. Not that it should matter, but how many people who say that's a great car actually own one?

chrispmartha

15,361 posts

128 months

Thursday 26th February 2015
quotequote all
Pwig said:
This, it's very difficult to walk past a 300bhp Golf R at £250 a month to go and buy one of these at £400 + on a lease.

And I know this will make all you powerfully built goateed company directors squirm on your pile of cash, but most new cars are bought on finance.

You have to REALLY REALLY want one to justify one of these on a cost basis.
And if you do really want a drivers car and have 15-20kcash to spend would you spend it on a GT6?

especially when you can get something like this

http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/2015...