RE: Subaru BRZ v Toyota GT86: Delivery Miles
Discussion
British Beef said:
chrispmartha said:
kambites said:
It is an interesting point though. If Toyota released a 300bhp version with a better interior for £30k (I think that's about what a Golf R costs?), would anyone buy it?
Maybe if it was on a £250 per month leaseEdited by kambites on Thursday 26th February 10:19
So that works out as £18800 LEASE for the Golf R for 4 years ownership.
Given that a new BRZ is currently around £20k to buy, this is not even close to a fair comparison.
Its like comparing the Golf R to an M3 !!!
Sadly, all the good deals are probably past - but then, this discussion is whay they HAVE NOT sold (looking back).
They were a lot cheaper just over a year ago and a lot were sold occassionally a cheap-ish deal still comes up.
http://www.gateway2lease.com/z_volkswagen_golf_2.0...
6+23 at £283.00 including vat is: £8207.00. Nowhere near M3 money.
The M135 was even cheaper, when it first cae out.
Hol said:
http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...
Sadly, all the good deals are probably past - but then, this discussion is whay they HAVE NOT sold (looking back).
They were a lot cheaper just over a year ago and a lot were sold occassionally a cheap-ish deal still comes up.
http://www.gateway2lease.com/z_volkswagen_golf_2.0...
6+23 at £283.00 including vat is: £8207.00. Nowhere near M3 money.
The M135 was even cheaper, when it first cae out.
Quite, Im not sure of his point an M3 for 24 months is at least £800Sadly, all the good deals are probably past - but then, this discussion is whay they HAVE NOT sold (looking back).
They were a lot cheaper just over a year ago and a lot were sold occassionally a cheap-ish deal still comes up.
http://www.gateway2lease.com/z_volkswagen_golf_2.0...
6+23 at £283.00 including vat is: £8207.00. Nowhere near M3 money.
The M135 was even cheaper, when it first cae out.
chrispmartha said:
Hol said:
http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...
Sadly, all the good deals are probably past - but then, this discussion is whay they HAVE NOT sold (looking back).
They were a lot cheaper just over a year ago and a lot were sold occassionally a cheap-ish deal still comes up.
http://www.gateway2lease.com/z_volkswagen_golf_2.0...
6+23 at £283.00 including vat is: £8207.00. Nowhere near M3 money.
The M135 was even cheaper, when it first cae out.
Quite, Im not sure of his point an M3 for 24 months is at least £800Sadly, all the good deals are probably past - but then, this discussion is whay they HAVE NOT sold (looking back).
They were a lot cheaper just over a year ago and a lot were sold occassionally a cheap-ish deal still comes up.
http://www.gateway2lease.com/z_volkswagen_golf_2.0...
6+23 at £283.00 including vat is: £8207.00. Nowhere near M3 money.
The M135 was even cheaper, when it first cae out.
PH article on page one said:
GT86s are under £15,000...Used GT86s go even cheaper. The equivalent (2012, 12,000-mile) GT86 will cost you just £16,490, while the very cheapest used GT86s now start as low as £15K.
GT86 launch article said:
The new Toyota GT 86 will cost from £24,995 when sales start in June. That is the entry, on-the-road price for the all-new sports coupe; further pricing and specification details will be announced nearer the time of launch.
Lets call it:
£9k over 30 months of average depreciation. £300 per month.
or
£8k over 25 months of average depreciation. £320 per month.
I am not saying that the GT86 is no good.
I AM saying its a good reason why a lot of people leased Golfs/M135/A45 AMG's for what they saw to be basic depreciation costs for a cheaper base car.
Every one that did just that, was one less potential GT86/BRZ customer.
Edited by Hol on Thursday 26th February 13:34
Edited by Hol on Thursday 26th February 13:35
McFarnsworth said:
Somehow Toyota ended up with a target audience that knows very well what else is out there and will do the numbers before buying. And a new car rarely wins against a used one in that regard.
Sadly for Toyota and Subaru, that is exactly the case: As a one time AE86 owner and later, a Legacy turbo, I am positively disposed toward both brands. I saw it, thought to myself how well one would suit me (if I didn't need a diesel as a daily driver), in a few years when there are used ones about, and then thought how a Honda S2000 would do a very similar job so bought a used one of those for the weekends.I could buy one but I guess I am not the new car buyer type.
The Crack Fox said:
Not sure what you did with the quoting there, but I get your message.
The styling doesn't appeal to me. I'm the kind of person who should be buying this car, that's my point. Look at those pictures. Lexarse inspired lights, fussy spoiler, odd ride height, overly aggressive front styling, and (in this instance) applicance white paint. Now, that might appeal to you, and others, but it doesn't not appeal to me. A pity, because they're great fun to drive.
Which of my cars look better? I dunno. I'd feel less of a chav in my (now dead) Metro. But, remember, that's just my opinion. Yours may differ
Did you prefer the original concept to the production car?The styling doesn't appeal to me. I'm the kind of person who should be buying this car, that's my point. Look at those pictures. Lexarse inspired lights, fussy spoiler, odd ride height, overly aggressive front styling, and (in this instance) applicance white paint. Now, that might appeal to you, and others, but it doesn't not appeal to me. A pity, because they're great fun to drive.
Which of my cars look better? I dunno. I'd feel less of a chav in my (now dead) Metro. But, remember, that's just my opinion. Yours may differ
I really tried to like the gt86 but as mentioned before the interior is really not great (i actually think Ford do a better job these days) and the whole package was a letdown, kn real roads you are not going to be hanging the arse out on a regualr basis which is where the appeal lies with these so in reality as a usable car they are simply not point to point fast or even that much real world fun, im not even convinced they would be that entertaining on a track. That coupled with being badly overpriced and depreciating like nothing else they really are not a winning combination.
Shame really, missed opportunity
Shame really, missed opportunity
freeform said:
McFarnsworth said:
Somehow Toyota ended up with a target audience that knows very well what else is out there and will do the numbers before buying. And a new car rarely wins against a used one in that regard.
Sadly for Toyota and Subaru, that is exactly the case: As a one time AE86 owner and later, a Legacy turbo, I am positively disposed toward both brands. I saw it, thought to myself how well one would suit me (if I didn't need a diesel as a daily driver), in a few years when there are used ones about, and then thought how a Honda S2000 would do a very similar job so bought a used one of those for the weekends.I could buy one but I guess I am not the new car buyer type.
Never trust an enthusiast, lots of talk, very little buying. Lotus could have provided some useful consultancy on this particular issue.
I wanted to love this car and ended up test driving both the automatic (first one I could get my hands on) and the manual. At the time I was driving around in a 1994 Porsche 968 Sport.
The issue didn't seem to be a lack of power, it actually seemed to be more down to the chassis simply being too good and too competent. I just couldn't get the car to move about beneath me at all (like the 968) without being silly - I suppose much more torque could have solved this but so could a cruder chassis. I also test drove a Renault Sport Clio 200 (non-turbo model) and found this to be far more fun to drive but like others have said ended up going for a used Cayman 2.7...
The issue didn't seem to be a lack of power, it actually seemed to be more down to the chassis simply being too good and too competent. I just couldn't get the car to move about beneath me at all (like the 968) without being silly - I suppose much more torque could have solved this but so could a cruder chassis. I also test drove a Renault Sport Clio 200 (non-turbo model) and found this to be far more fun to drive but like others have said ended up going for a used Cayman 2.7...
cptsideways said:
kambites said:
cptsideways said:
... they lost out big time....
Did they? Are they actually selling less of them than they expected to? US & Canada Sales are double (almost triple) of the MX-5
Scion FRS
2012 11,417 1470
2013 18,327 1825
2014 14,062 1559
MX5 Miata
2012 6305 711
2013 5780 554
2014 4745 511
Cant find UK sales figures at hand anyone know of a source?
I seriously contemplated buying a new GT86 in 2013, but found it a cramped, tinny, sluggish & dreary drive in normal UK test drive conditions. Doubtless on the right road (track?) and in the right conditions it might be fun, but there aren't too many of those conditions in the South East of England.
Whilst many on here say they would buy one, the reality is that the number that would fork out even £20k on one is tiny.
It fails for most people as a daily driver, and it's perhaps not special enough to have as a second car.
It's too new for most people to start modifying them due to warranty concerns - perhaps they will become more desirable on the used market once they fall to £10k or less and out of warranty.
Fittster said:
Toyota's mistake was building a car that people said they would buy not a car that they would buy.
Never trust an enthusiast, lots of talk, very little buying. Lotus could have provided some useful consultancy on this particular issue.
Never trust an enthusiast, lots of talk, very little buying. Lotus could have provided some useful consultancy on this particular issue.
Classic lesson for market research in general.
Don't trust what your customer says they will do/want etc.
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