RE: Subaru BRZ v Toyota GT86: Delivery Miles

[chrispmartha]

braddo said:

But it's a piece of cake to make it faster!!!

And the whole ethos of the car was to be a base for modification if the owner wanted to (whether that be for speed or style)..

Without invalidating the warranty?

[LordGrover]

Neil G60 said:

And I hope they do. The LItchfield Spec S conversion is stunning.

Has anyone actually managed to get it done?
I contacted them several times via email and phone - they never respond. I've heard the same from others so it ain't just me. From what I can see, if you're not blowing/spending tens of thousands on a GT-R they aren't interested.

[Tib]

They're a decent proposition. I would (maybe will) buy one used when they go below ten.

Had one for a 4 hour extended test drive when they came out. Two problems struck me.

• Ride quality is awful and the seats do nothing to insulate you from the bumps in the road. Maybe I am not used to modern cars, but I got out from an hour drive and my back ached. I've never had that in a car. I'm 25, so not an old git either. I got back into my coilovered MR-2 and felt vastly more comfortable.

• Leccy Power steering. Yeah, it's good for electric power steering, but that's a bit like saying chlamydia is good for an STD. No idea why they decided to do this on the car, if it's about driving feel and handling prowess, use the system that's known to work.

I liked the fuel economy. But the car only really felt at home between 60 & 80 on an a road to me.

[RobM77]

andburg said:

A1 2.0 TDI sportback is faster? seriously?

There may have been a visiting F1 driver, a particularly good day, a rainy day for the others, different temperatures etc - we don't really know. I know that applies to my Autocar times, but being a magazine I read regularly I know that some of those variables don't apply to them.

[liner33]

andburg said:

back to the autocar test track..this one is more comprehensive

http://fastestlaps.com/tracks/autozeitung_test_tra...

185. Opel Astra OPC 1:46.60 '05 241 / 1318
189. Ford Focus ST 1:46.70 '08 226 / 1424
200. VW Scirocco 1.4 TSI 1:47.10 '08 160 / 1271
201. Mazda RX-8 1:47.20 '02 231 / 1400
204. Audi A1 Sporback 2.0 TDI 1:47.20 '12 143 / 1195
225. Mini Cooper S 1:48.00 '10 184 / 1196
254. Citroen DS3 THP 150 1:49.00 '11 156 / 1165
276. VW Polo GTI 1.4 TSI 1:49.70 '10 179 / 1194
282. Toyota GT-86 1:49.90 '12 200 / 1180
306. Alfa Romeo Mito 1.4 Multiair 135 1:50.50 '09 135 / 1135
332. Mini Cooper D 1:51.30 '10 111 / 1015
343. Mazda MX-5 2.0 MZR 1:51.70 '05 160 / 1150

Looks where you'd expect it to be when you look at sports cars, midpoint between 160bhp MX5 and a 230bhp RX8, its just the market for a 2+2 at 20k isn't actually there!

A1 2.0 TDI sportback is faster? seriously?

And the Golf GTD faster with the 170 cr diesel

[andburg]

ok 1 even specific, we can allow for some differences but...

http://fastestlaps.com/comparisons/toyota_ft-86-vs...

Hot hatches have killed the true sports car

[braddo]

The big autocar test when the car first came out had a lap time 1 sec slower than a Golf GTI.

If one wanted greater track speed, just a change of tyres would surely make 2-3 secs difference to the autozeitung time above?

[chopper602]

underphil said:

I think the suspension for US market cars is different than Euro, stiffer rear springs for more oversteer, whilst the Euro GT86 is more understeer baised compared with the BRZ (which is the same in both markets)

No. The BRZ is set-up towards understeer and the GT86 is set-up towards oversteer.

[andburg]

braddo said:

The big autocar test when the car first came out had a lap time 1 sec slower than a Golf GTI.

If one wanted greater track speed, just a change of tyres would surely make 2-3 secs difference to the autozeitung time above?

We know this, but to the general public who don't want a rwd car because they're useless in winter (hear this all the time about bmw) then the lack of grip isn't a selling point, at the speeds the drive a hot hatch feels planted and safe!

[Alex]

chopper602 said:

No. The BRZ is set-up towards understeer and the GT86 is set-up towards oversteer.

I can assure you that neither of these cars is "set up towards understeer". The BRZ has a stiffer front-end so has better turn-in, but doesn't wag its tail as easily as the GT86.

[LordGrover]

Not sure I agree with that.
FWD cars impart a false sense of security in snow and some drive faster than the conditions safely allow. Everything seems fine until you have to brake or turn unexpectedly. RWD with good winter tyres should be okay for most drivers. I don't think they're inherently less safe.

[Dunk130TC]

I've yet to experience understeer in my BRZ, although have seen plenty of the other. Damp cold winter roads are great!

[underphil]

chopper602 said:

underphil said:

I think the suspension for US market cars is different than Euro, stiffer rear springs for more oversteer, whilst the Euro GT86 is more understeer baised compared with the BRZ (which is the same in both markets)

No. The BRZ is set-up towards understeer and the GT86 is set-up towards oversteer.

check the spring rates for the US-spec FR-S vs Euro spec for the GT86 and you'll see my point - very different set-ups (Euro, very soft rear springs (understeery) - the BRZ worldwide spec splits them down the middle

[LasseV]

Mazdaspeed3 Subaru WRX Scion FR-S Scion FR-S Scion FR-S
TIRE Dunlop SP Sport 2050 Dunlop SP Sport 01 Michelin Primacy HP Dunlop Star Spec Dunlop
SIZE 225/40-18 88Y 235/45-17 94W 215/45-17 87W 215/45-17 87W 235/40-18 91W
TREADWEAR 240 280 240 200 200
LAP TIME 1:27.6 1:28.3 1:29.3 1:27.0 1:27.6
MAX TRACK SPEED 98.8 mph 96.3 mph 93.6 mph 94.0 mph 92.5 mph
0-60 MPH 6.2 sec 5.0 sec 6.6 sec 6.5 sec 6.6 sec
SKIDPAD 0.89g 0.90g 0.89g 0.94g 0.96g
SLALOM 69.2 mph 68.9 mph 67.8 mph 70.2 mph 71.2 mph

From:
http://www.roadandtrack.com/car-culture/a18334/sci...

Seems very competitive i think. It is a fast car, albeit slowest with it's standard tires, which are econo tires. With proper tires it is a track ready driving machine. You really can't say same thing about all the competitors tho, not at least golf R...

Edit: Looks like ste and i can't edit it But in the end, Scion FRS was faster than wrx and mazdaspeed3 with proper tires

Edited by LasseV on Friday 27th February 17:24

Edited by LasseV on Friday 27th February 17:35

[andburg]

Chris says it all though....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HPh90yNX-mY

this car is not about being the fastest, its about being the most fun!

[LasseV]

GTEYE said:

Perhaps you are a driving god, but for the average British driver, the Golf would be pretty close.

Well, i think that this car is NOT for average British driver tho.

[LordGrover]

The average British driver being 40 years old, single mum with dog and kids to cart about?

[Zed Ed]

Heading towards 3 years of ownership on my BRZ and a few thoughts;

Great chassis, great low driving position, great steering and road feel
They couldn't have made a less special engine, although has enough go in stock form when driven appropriately.
Has gearstick
Great track drive
Cheap to run if you want
Still a rarity

Good niche car, prevented from being a classic with wide appeal by probably 75bhp and 100kg.

[nickfrog]

chrispmartha said:

sandman77 said:

Why arent these selling? I just don't get it. I would have one over a 4 series BMW or Audi A5 any day. Plus I would be £10k better off.

Have you sat in one? they are not even close to either the Audi or BMW inside the cabin, they are cheap and nasty looking not a great place to sit. and having driven one and got back in my M135i, it felt underpowered and lacking refinement which is what a lot of people want from a car these days.

I have driven the M135i regularly over the past 2 years. What a superb car in isolation, loved it.

But compared to the GT86, it feels like a boat to drive, a fast boat but a boat nonetheless. And that's even on the open road.

We all have different needs and priorities. Some favour the interior quality, fair enough. Some prefer to drive.

The reason why the GT86 hasn't sold is the headline price of £25k at launch and the 0-60 times. Neither of which correspond to the reality.

[s m]

I thought these 2 snippets might interest people asking about sales

GT86



BRZ