RE: Koenigsegg - Geneva 2015
Discussion
GroundEffect said:
Watchman said:
I love this.
I don't know much about hydraulics in practice but I have previously wondered if there was any mileage in some sort of hydraulic power transfer. I didn't consider replacing the whole gearbox like this though. It's a fabulous example of fresh thinking.
I really believed the press when the Veyron was launched, than we'd reached the Concorde moment of automotive engineering... meaning we won't ever see anything as mad as a Veyron again. Now though, I have hope for a 300mph "production" car in my lifetime.
It's not exactly 'new'...it's a torque converter, basically...I don't know much about hydraulics in practice but I have previously wondered if there was any mileage in some sort of hydraulic power transfer. I didn't consider replacing the whole gearbox like this though. It's a fabulous example of fresh thinking.
I really believed the press when the Veyron was launched, than we'd reached the Concorde moment of automotive engineering... meaning we won't ever see anything as mad as a Veyron again. Now though, I have hope for a 300mph "production" car in my lifetime.
The point of my original musings was to overcome packaging issues. Driveshafts need to be reasonably perpendicular to the wheels which sometimes necessitates sub-optimal engine and gearbox locations. For this though, you'd need a hydraulic actuator at the hub. Is that what we're looking at here or is it a more conventional torque converter/driveshaft configuration?
NotNormal said:
You really have fallen for the marketing spiel!
A hybrid is the use of electric and petrol to propel a motor vehicle. The fact they don't have a gearbox is irrelevant. They still use the petrol engine to charge the batteries by disengaging the driveline via hydraulic method so yes id say it very much IS a hybrid.
And exactly what is a traditional hybrid? There are so many different versions by different manufactures that there is no "traditional" method.
No fallen for anything, just stating their explanation. Guess it depends on what level you look at it; you're correct at a high level but K'egg seems to talk about it at lower level.A hybrid is the use of electric and petrol to propel a motor vehicle. The fact they don't have a gearbox is irrelevant. They still use the petrol engine to charge the batteries by disengaging the driveline via hydraulic method so yes id say it very much IS a hybrid.
And exactly what is a traditional hybrid? There are so many different versions by different manufactures that there is no "traditional" method.
Love the idea of this, using the additional flexibility of the electric motors to allow the gearbox to be removed.
I thought for a while that the low down torque of electric cars meant that was going to be the future once the batteries are at a good enough level, but now an all electric car is never going to keep up without a big petrol engine as well. The way these cars have gone in the last couple of years is incredible.
I thought for a while that the low down torque of electric cars meant that was going to be the future once the batteries are at a good enough level, but now an all electric car is never going to keep up without a big petrol engine as well. The way these cars have gone in the last couple of years is incredible.
Krikkit said:
Yep, that's about as mental as I was expecting for Koenigsegg when they said they were doing a hybrid. Sounds like it's a bit of a one-trick pony though, will performance in the 40-140mph range be that special once the batteries start flagging?
One of the canned quotes the Koenigsegg press spiel: "The combination of electrical and combustion power is just mind boggling. When you get up to speed, the system really comes into play -How about 3.2 seconds between 150 to 250 km/h and under 20 Seconds from 0 to 400 km/h?"Dale Lomas said:
Nope, only the electric motors run reverse, and (unlike an old Harley, but that's another story...) the V8 in this wouldn't run backwards.
Only two of the three electric motors, so it only has 500bhp in reverse... probably wont do more than about 150mph; barely adequate for getting into a parking space at the supermarket. 
kambites said:
Dale Lomas said:
Nope, only the electric motors run reverse, and (unlike an old Harley, but that's another story...) the V8 in this wouldn't run backwards.
Only two of the three electric motors, so it only has 500bhp in reverse... probably wont do more than about 150mph; barely adequate for getting into a parking space at the supermarket. Single gear at ~30mph/1,000rpm.
So 0-45mph (ish) will be done via electric motors with the V8 disengaged / recharging the batteries. After that the V8 will/can be engaged to directly drive, all the way up.
Which actually makes some engineering sense - off the line, with the advantage of instant-torque, you'd struggle to use much more than 500bhp in a rwd application. But you do need big power once drag kicks in...
Absolute looney-tunes, but in a very good way...looking forward to a road-test verdict as to how it actually drives...my one concern is whether the lack of 'noise' reward from the V8 (you won't get to hear its screaming top-end anywhere but on a runway) will take away from the overall experience.
So 0-45mph (ish) will be done via electric motors with the V8 disengaged / recharging the batteries. After that the V8 will/can be engaged to directly drive, all the way up.
Which actually makes some engineering sense - off the line, with the advantage of instant-torque, you'd struggle to use much more than 500bhp in a rwd application. But you do need big power once drag kicks in...
Absolute looney-tunes, but in a very good way...looking forward to a road-test verdict as to how it actually drives...my one concern is whether the lack of 'noise' reward from the V8 (you won't get to hear its screaming top-end anywhere but on a runway) will take away from the overall experience.
NotNormal said:
So this is proving that its better NOT to do a hybrid then is it? Bit of turnaround from comments not so long ago by Christian 
During the launch of the one:1 he states his dislike for hybrid cars saying its like mixing "oil and vinegar" and now the next car they release is....... a hybrid!!
Source - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OMLnmvLYTVw
Strange company, impressed at the technology but personally not a fan of their cars at all.
Exactly this. I do admire this car though - what an achievement. Good thing they did, as K'Egg were bordering on irrelevant without the electric tech.During the launch of the one:1 he states his dislike for hybrid cars saying its like mixing "oil and vinegar" and now the next car they release is....... a hybrid!!
Source - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OMLnmvLYTVw
Strange company, impressed at the technology but personally not a fan of their cars at all.
Can't say it moves anything forward, too late for that. But I am glad it is here.
JD said:
Are my maths off here..
1 minute of full throttle from the electric motors?
Yes and no.1 minute of full throttle from the electric motors?
1 minute of full power draw on the batteries before:-
- the V8 is called on to recharge them;
- any regeneration from braking, etc.;
- the electronics wind back the electric motors due to the power the V8 is putting through the drivetrain.
In reality, if you can get to over 200mph in 20s, then I can't think of anywhere except possibly Bonneville or Ehra Lessien (sp?) where you will sustain over 1 minute of full throttle, even without the 3rd point above...
Oh, and for reference, the P1's equivalent measure is in the region of 2 minutes battery life at full-pelt. And for giggles, a Prius PLUG-IN HYBRID (i.e. the really environmental one, not the boggo one you see on the roads) has a 4.4kWh battery pack with a 60kW motor, so only 4.4 minutes at full-drain.
Watchman said:
GroundEffect said:
Watchman said:
I love this.
I don't know much about hydraulics in practice but I have previously wondered if there was any mileage in some sort of hydraulic power transfer. I didn't consider replacing the whole gearbox like this though. It's a fabulous example of fresh thinking.
I really believed the press when the Veyron was launched, than we'd reached the Concorde moment of automotive engineering... meaning we won't ever see anything as mad as a Veyron again. Now though, I have hope for a 300mph "production" car in my lifetime.
It's not exactly 'new'...it's a torque converter, basically...I don't know much about hydraulics in practice but I have previously wondered if there was any mileage in some sort of hydraulic power transfer. I didn't consider replacing the whole gearbox like this though. It's a fabulous example of fresh thinking.
I really believed the press when the Veyron was launched, than we'd reached the Concorde moment of automotive engineering... meaning we won't ever see anything as mad as a Veyron again. Now though, I have hope for a 300mph "production" car in my lifetime.
The point of my original musings was to overcome packaging issues. Driveshafts need to be reasonably perpendicular to the wheels which sometimes necessitates sub-optimal engine and gearbox locations. For this though, you'd need a hydraulic actuator at the hub. Is that what we're looking at here or is it a more conventional torque converter/driveshaft configuration?
I'm a DCT man.andburg said:
based on my admittedly shoddy calculations or single gear with 255mph top at 7800rpm, 1000RPM is about 32.5 mph.
1000 - 32.5
2000 - 65
3000 - 97.5
4000 - 130
5000 - 162.5
6000 - 195
7000 - 227.5
Nailing this from a standing start i bet you hit 70mph before you hit boost!
Assuming zero slip condition of the torque converter. Which won't be the case, obviously.1000 - 32.5
2000 - 65
3000 - 97.5
4000 - 130
5000 - 162.5
6000 - 195
7000 - 227.5
Nailing this from a standing start i bet you hit 70mph before you hit boost!
zeDuffMan said:
Surely if you fail to see anything in either the engineering or the performance of this thing, there's something wrong with you. What an incredible leap forward. And all out of an aircraft hangar in Sweden. Christian von Koenigsegg really is living the dream.
It looks to me like the answer to the question "How do i get the least performance possible from multiple potentially extremely efficient/powerful power sources".............Max_Torque said:
It looks to me like the answer to the question "How do i get the least performance possible from multiple potentially extremely efficient/powerful power sources".............
I was waiting for you to pop up in this thread.Your answer is what I was suspecting.
Vapourware
Max_Torque said:
zeDuffMan said:
Surely if you fail to see anything in either the engineering or the performance of this thing, there's something wrong with you. What an incredible leap forward. And all out of an aircraft hangar in Sweden. Christian von Koenigsegg really is living the dream.
It looks to me like the answer to the question "How do i get the least performance possible from multiple potentially extremely efficient/powerful power sources".............
Gassing Station | General Gassing | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff