RE: Honda Civic Type R - Geneva 2015

[otolith]

Hub said:

There is a lot of competition now in that segment/at that price point, and I can't see what the USP of the Type R is anymore. It will appeal to existing fans of the brand but I can't imagine it winning many new converts.

I'd say the opposite - that the switch to a more mainstream turbocharged solution will alienate fans of the brand but perhaps attract people who would otherwise have bought one of the other turbo hatches.

[Guvernator]

otolith said:

I'd say the opposite - that the switch to a more mainstream turbocharged solution will alienate fans of the brand but perhaps attract people who would otherwise have bought one of the other turbo hatches.

Not with those looks it won't. Switch to a mainstream powertrain but then give it a Fast and Furious makeover. Who is this car actually trying to appeal to again?

[otolith]

Guvernator said:

Not with those looks it won't. Switch to a mainstream powertrain but then give it a Fast and Furious makeover. Who is this car actually trying to appeal to again?

People who think the German alternatives will make them look like an accountant? The kind of people who would have bought a new Escort Cosworth or Subaru/Mitsubishi rally rep with big wing, scoops and vents? Not everyone with enough disposable income for this kind of thing is a small-c conservative with a white collar job and a fear of scaring the horses.

[DanielSan]

I don't understand why anyone would want a subtle hot hatch? They should look a bit mad and different to the boggo diesel version.

[Nezquick]

NAS1F said:

That looks more like it!

[Guvernator]

otolith said:

People who think the German alternatives will make them look like an accountant? The kind of people who would have bought a new Escort Cosworth or Subaru/Mitsubishi rally rep with big wing, scoops and vents? Not everyone with enough disposable income for this kind of thing is a small-c conservative with a white collar job and a fear of scaring the horses.

I had a Subaru when I was younger so I know about in your face rally reps and I wholeheartedly agree that the German offerings are sleep inducing so it's not the overt style that I am concerned about, more that they haven't done it properly. It is so blatantly obvious the the bean counters have got involved. The concept while OTT at least looked cohesive, this looks like the type of "phat" fibreglass bodykits you can buy off ebay for about 10p. Not the kind of quality I expect from a mainstream manufacturer, especially someone of Honda's calibre.

[otolith]

Ah, that's a different matter - yeah, whether people think it's well executed, we'll have to see. I think you probably need to see one close up in the flesh to get a feel for whether it looks OEM or lashed together.

[Guvernator]

otolith said:

Ah, that's a different matter - yeah, whether people think it's well executed, we'll have to see. I think you probably need to see one close up in the flesh to get a feel for whether it looks OEM or lashed together.

I certainly want to go and see one in the metal. I am really hoping seeing it in 3d will soften what look like some glaring mistakes, especially details like those wheel arches (in the pictures the disparity in size looks pretty naff) and THAT spoiler.

[Guvernator]

Just seen some more pics on the Evo website and as someone else mentioned previously, why stick on bigger blown out wheel arches if you are not going to increase the cars track width to make the wheels fill them out. Again it just stinks of penny-pinching. I suspect the after-market will be doing a fine trade in wheel spacers for this car.

[HorneyMX5]

Guvernator said:

Just seen some more pics on the Evo website and as someone else mentioned previously, why stick on bigger blown out wheel arches if you are not going to increase the cars track width to make the wheels fill them out. Again it just stinks of penny-pinching. I suspect the after-market will be doing a fine trade in wheel spacers for this car.

I wondered this but they did make a big noise about the aero, I suspect this is function over form. Looking at the current BTCC cars they have the wheels quite inboard of the wheel arches.

This might explain why the front's are kitted and the rears aren't as well.

I was initially disappointed int his car but the more I see it, the more it grows on me. I certainly want to have a go in one.

[otolith]

I see them. It does raise the question of why the arches need to be so wide.

[sinbad666]

i always think videos do better at showing the car.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J76kVLYJXWA

looks great in black.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8zlNi_xqW-s

i agree the wheels dont fill the arches enough, I can only assume theyve done this for aero. Nothing some spacers wont fix i guess.

I also love the fact that one of the engineers in the wind tunnel doesnt have his cap on fully lol

[Crafty_]

Darsettian said:

it still speaks to the enthusiast in a way most rivals do not – and has an engineering pedigree that's unsurpassed

300hp from a turbo 4 is hardly unique is it.

[Axionknight]

That steering wheel looks truly dog st.

[otolith]

sinbad666 said:

looks great in black.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8zlNi_xqW-s

Interesting that there appears to be genuine airflow through those wheel arch vents - wonder if they are oversized because they need that effect for brake cooling?

[sinbad666]

otolith said:

Interesting that there appears to be genuine airflow through those wheel arch vents - wonder if they are oversized because they need that effect for brake cooling?

Reduces the pressure build up, so in effect reduces drag, dont think its primarily linked to the brakes although it could increase airflow in that area.

[HorneyMX5]

otolith said:

sinbad666 said:

looks great in black.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8zlNi_xqW-s

Interesting that there appears to be genuine airflow through those wheel arch vents - wonder if they are oversized because they need that effect for brake cooling?

It's do with removing turbulent air in the top of the wheel arch above the tyre. That air causes lift, if it runs out of the wheel arch you reduce lift by a large amount.

[sinbad666]

Crafty_ said:

300hp from a turbo 4 is hardly unique is it.

Find me another thats currently for sale new? there cant be many..

[Crafty_]

sinbad666 said:

Find me another thats currently for sale new? there cant be many..

Factory turbo 4 pots over 300hp

Golf R
Audi S3
Imprezas
Evos go far beyond.
Even volvo are getting in on it http://gas2.org/2013/08/19/volvo-reveals-300-hp-tu... not sure of capacity of those.
the Leon cupra is 280 and IIRC only restricted by software to prevent rivaling golf R and S3
Astra VXR is close on 280 too, that engine is 300hp in the states.
Focus will be 2.3 but 350hp apparently.

Going aftermarket there are several corsa VXRs getting over 300hp from a 1.6.
Hell SBD had a 1.4 16v vauxhall engine doing 270hp normally aspirated and that was 15+ years ago!

Should they choose do any manufacturer could get 300hp from a 2 litre 4 pot.

[blearyeyedboy]

Guvernator said:

They do offer a Honda Civic Sport now which actually doesn't look too bad IMO.

Clicky

Much more cohesive then the monstrosity that is this Type R IMO. Unfortunately it comes with 2 crap engine choices. I'd prefer it if they offered the Type R engine\running gear in this body, sort of like the Type S that they used to do before. In fact if they did I'd more than likely be putting an order in now.

To the Honda employee who posted in this thread on page 4 *AI*, can you please use your inside influence to ask who the hell signed off this design and why the final production version has ended up looking such a mess?

But as you say, that *is* the 1.8 I'm referring to, just a nicer looking one. There's certainly room for a Type S; whether there's time to do so in this generation of Civic is doubtful.

Guvernator said:

anything around 220-250bhp would be more than enough to give it enough headroom between the top dog Type R and price it sensibly around the low £20k mark and I reckon they'd be onto a winner.

Yes, though chassis setup is as important as power output. £20k might be a little bit too keen though; £23-24k might easily be achievable without eating into Type R sales excessively. Call it a Type S and you could even have a Civic Tourer version.

Guvernator said:

Or alternatively just offer the Type R without all that stuck on tat. I always complain about German hot hatches being too boring and I like to think I am more adventurous than most but the Type R really is several steps to far.

I wonder if someone wealthier than me is working on how do declutter their Type R?

Edited by blearyeyedboy on Friday 6th March 18:15