RE: Honda Civic Type R - Geneva 2015
Discussion
Crafty_ said:
knebworth01 said:
Class difference, I assume you mean the Honda is in a higher league to a Ford. You surely couldn't be thinking the other way round? Surely...?
Put it this way, you're off to pick up a date, which do you take ? a bad imitation of a max power car, circa 2004 or a nice bog coupe that looks far more expensive than it is?When the mustang (finally) gets here people will point and go "wtf is that?"
When the civic arrives they'll point and laugh at you.
uncler said:
The price is not unsurprising, but really shows how cars have shot up in price over the last few years - I bought a new FN2 Civic Type R GT in 2008 for £19k, now the entry point will be £30k. Is it only hot hatches that have out-stripped inflation by such a huge margin (which I'm guessing is partly to do with the hardcore performance they now offer)?
I paid £16300 for my new FN2 Type R GT with LSD in 2011I like it. I don't love it, but it's at least interesting.
It's different, and Honda has been accused of being boring for quite a few years now. Even if it was conservative like a Golf or A3, it still wouldn't appeal to the Golf or A3 crowd just because it's a Honda. So they might as well make it bonkers, because that's what Honda used to do.
Hope it makes them some money, and I think it will at £30k.
Also, once the config is live I bet you can tone it down and make it look a little less banzai. Hopefully smaller wheels are available, and hopefully some of the bumper/skirt extensions are optional extras.
It's different, and Honda has been accused of being boring for quite a few years now. Even if it was conservative like a Golf or A3, it still wouldn't appeal to the Golf or A3 crowd just because it's a Honda. So they might as well make it bonkers, because that's what Honda used to do.
Hope it makes them some money, and I think it will at £30k.
Also, once the config is live I bet you can tone it down and make it look a little less banzai. Hopefully smaller wheels are available, and hopefully some of the bumper/skirt extensions are optional extras.
Edited by RenOHH on Tuesday 3rd March 18:15
vz-r_dave said:
HorneyMX5 said:
celicawrc said:
7:50 With no interior and a roll cage....
So an utterly pointless time then!
Or not. They put in the press release it was missing the AC and passenger seat to offset the weight of the cage they'd fitted for safety reasons.So an utterly pointless time then!
I'd expect the production car to post a similar time, maybe even faster if the development of the tyres has moved on since that lap was done in May last year.
You don't think fitting a rollcage makes a difference to the handling on a track
yeh righto.....celicawrc said:
Unless i can walk into my local Honda dealership and buy one without a passenger seat, AC with a roll cage fitted, then it is NOT the production car. Therefore the lap is meaningless!
.
You couldnt walk into a SEAT dealership and buy the same car that broke the Ring record either....
Whats your point?
kambites said:
No, I prefer it to be fun to drive down a B-road where my speed is limited primarily by sight lines and my sanity rather than fast to drive down one where my speed is limited by mechanical grip. The two are, in my experience, largely contradictory. In my experience, cars which are set up primarily to go around a racing circuit quickly are almost universally rather dull to drive on the road.
Good job the nordschleife is a public road then.You are making alot of assumptions without having read any reviews or driven the car... The adaptive dampers could potentially make the car compliant for british b roads, and dynamic enough to stiffen the car for track.
celicawrc said:
vz-r_dave said:
HorneyMX5 said:
celicawrc said:
7:50 With no interior and a roll cage....
So an utterly pointless time then!
Or not. They put in the press release it was missing the AC and passenger seat to offset the weight of the cage they'd fitted for safety reasons.So an utterly pointless time then!
I'd expect the production car to post a similar time, maybe even faster if the development of the tyres has moved on since that lap was done in May last year.
You don't think fitting a rollcage makes a difference to the handling on a track
yeh righto.....As for the weight difference, unless someone can tell me how much the ratio of front to rear weight changes by removing an aircon unit I will call utter s
te to it making a difference to the handling. From the article it seems that they are planning to test a production car so let's wait and see.
sinbad666 said:
Good job the nordschleife is a public road then.
Well done for completely missing the point. 
I'm not complaining that it's been tuned for the ring, although the ring is very different to anything I ever drive on so it's not ideal. I'm complaining that it's been tuned to be fast on the ring and in my experience fast is not only not the same thing as fun, but when taken to extremes often mutually exclusive.
Put simply, I'd rather they'd concentrated on making the car fun whilst going slowly than on making it fast. For me, that's the whole point of a hot hatch (or indeed any road car aimed at keen drivers). I'm not saying there's no value in making a car that's fast for the sake of being fast, perhaps some people want that, it just holds no appeal for me.
ETA: Of course that isn't aimed specifically at Honda. The whole industry has gone down the path of "fast is more important than fun".
Edited by kambites on Tuesday 3rd March 19:24
sinbad666 said:
Good job the nordschleife is a public road then.
You are making alot of assumptions without having read any reviews or driven the car... The adaptive dampers could potentially make the car compliant for british b roads, and dynamic enough to stiffen the car for track.
I hope so, the FN2 was horrendous on your average UK road!You are making alot of assumptions without having read any reviews or driven the car... The adaptive dampers could potentially make the car compliant for british b roads, and dynamic enough to stiffen the car for track.
kambites said:
sinbad666 said:
Good job the nordschleife is a public road then.
Well done for completely missing the point. I'm not complaining that it's been tuned for the ring, although the ring is very different to anything I ever drive on so it's not ideal. I'm complaining that it's been tuned to be fast on the ring and in my experience fast is not only not the same thing as fun, but when taken to extremes often mutually exclusive.
Put simply, I'd rather they'd concentrated on making the car fun whilst going slowly than on making it fast. For me, that's the whole point of a hot hatch (or indeed any road car aimed at keen drivers). I'm not saying there's no value in making a car that's fast for the sake of being fast, perhaps some people want that, it just holds no appeal for me.
ETA: Of course that isn't aimed specifically at Honda. The whole industry has gone down the path of "fast is more important than fun".
Edited by kambites on Tuesday 3rd March 19:24
kambites said:
Well done for completely missing the point.
I'm not complaining that it's been tuned for the ring, although the ring is very different to anything I ever drive on so it's not ideal. I'm complaining that it's been tuned to be fast on the ring and in my experience fast is not only not the same thing as fun, but when taken to extremes often mutually exclusive.
Point taken, but let's wait for a road test before we assume they're mutually exclusive. Yes, cars set up to be fast tend to be less fun on a road but there are exceptions... and no one's tested this to see if it's an exception yet.I'm not complaining that it's been tuned for the ring, although the ring is very different to anything I ever drive on so it's not ideal. I'm complaining that it's been tuned to be fast on the ring and in my experience fast is not only not the same thing as fun, but when taken to extremes often mutually exclusive.
On a different point, I found it interesting to show Blearyeyedgirl. Her response was "That's really chavvy. Could Honda employ someone with taste?" The chances of me convincing her that it can make me cheery while providing a five door hatch for any Blearyeyedkids just went down significantly.
The thing about the Seat Leon Cupra is that if you want one in orange wheels and look outrageous you can, but if you want one to blend in you can have one in metallic grey with large-but-not-too-silly wheels. If you want a Megane you can order one with a cup chassis and make it look relatively subtle, or if you want everyone to look then you can order one in Liquid Yellow with stickers and a big lip spoiler that says TROPHY.
If you want a subtle looking Honda Civic Type R, you can buy... a car made by someone else. Whether that's a good or bad thing depends on whether you view Type R as a culture worth defending or an evolving culture that needs to be more inclusive. (For the dangers of being too inclusive... BMW M-Sport badged 3GT, anyone?)
(Edited because I can't type.)
Edited by blearyeyedboy on Wednesday 4th March 17:41
I for one bloody love it and commend Honda for going a little wild and building something alternative!
For me, this is like the mk2 Focus RS, a little out there, a bit garish and possibly not the best performer in it's class, but at least it has character/theatre to it and will no doubt put be very put a big smile on the drivers face. Not everybody is in the market for a perfect all rounder like a Golf R, and it should be celebrated for that.
I'll be sure to look at these very closely when looking for my next car (just after my Golf R lease is up, I know, I know
For me, this is like the mk2 Focus RS, a little out there, a bit garish and possibly not the best performer in it's class, but at least it has character/theatre to it and will no doubt put be very put a big smile on the drivers face. Not everybody is in the market for a perfect all rounder like a Golf R, and it should be celebrated for that.
I'll be sure to look at these very closely when looking for my next car (just after my Golf R lease is up, I know, I know
kambites said:
Well done for completely missing the point.
I'm not complaining that it's been tuned for the ring, although the ring is very different to anything I ever drive on so it's not ideal. I'm complaining that it's been tuned to be fast on the ring and in my experience fast is not only not the same thing as fun, but when taken to extremes often mutually exclusive.
Put simply, I'd rather they'd concentrated on making the car fun whilst going slowly than on making it fast. For me, that's the whole point of a hot hatch (or indeed any road car aimed at keen drivers). I'm not saying there's no value in making a car that's fast for the sake of being fast, perhaps some people want that, it just holds no appeal for me.
ETA: Of course that isn't aimed specifically at Honda. The whole industry has gone down the path of "fast is more important than fun".
Give this man a cookie I'm not complaining that it's been tuned for the ring, although the ring is very different to anything I ever drive on so it's not ideal. I'm complaining that it's been tuned to be fast on the ring and in my experience fast is not only not the same thing as fun, but when taken to extremes often mutually exclusive.
Put simply, I'd rather they'd concentrated on making the car fun whilst going slowly than on making it fast. For me, that's the whole point of a hot hatch (or indeed any road car aimed at keen drivers). I'm not saying there's no value in making a car that's fast for the sake of being fast, perhaps some people want that, it just holds no appeal for me.
ETA: Of course that isn't aimed specifically at Honda. The whole industry has gone down the path of "fast is more important than fun".
Edited by kambites on Tuesday 3rd March 19:24
I concur. Plenty of modern cars that are faster than my current EK9 Civic, but the smile and overall fun that I have rarely fades.
It'll be interesting to see if the new car is more grin inducing than an EK9 or DC2 Integra.
I predict that I won't get on with this new Civic with regards to its looks and the sheer size of the damn thing. Guess I'm a bit '90s when it comes to compact Civics with minimalistic overall design.
vz-r_dave said:
Bring back the DC2 I say
How about a true successor to the CRX? (CRZ doesn't count)Make it really light, give it a small but charismatic engine, and it doesn't matter if it's a bit slow by today's standards, as long as it's fun to drive!
SaqibCTR said:
How about a true successor to the CRX? (CRZ doesn't count)
Make it really light, give it a small but charismatic engine, and it doesn't matter if it's a bit slow by today's standards, as long as it's fun to drive!
The problem is, it wouldn't sell. Car manufacturers aren't stupid, they know their markets.Make it really light, give it a small but charismatic engine, and it doesn't matter if it's a bit slow by today's standards, as long as it's fun to drive!
The closest I've come to a modern car like that is the Swift Sport. I think that's probably my favourite current hot hatch. I can't remember when I actually last saw one on the road.
Edited by kambites on Tuesday 3rd March 21:29
Gassing Station | General Gassing | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff