RE: Honda Civic Type R - Geneva 2015
Discussion
Zeegoff said:
Ring lap times, all very impressive and all but how is this relevant to my commute? Or bnipping the shops?
It's not. It's barely relevant to anything, but for the commute and nipping to the shops they also launched an automatic 1.6 diesel CRV at Geneva if that's what floats your boat.Ali_T said:
Cupramax said:
Yep, watching that Type R video, one mistake and someone is going to become one with the scenery in a big way. The fact that hot hatches are matching what a 997 Carrera S was doing a couple of years ago is astounding.
It's more a measure of how much tyre technology has come along. The 'ring has so many high speed corners that a better time can be easily achieved with semi track tyres and Honda have already said they've developed a specific tyre for the Civic which, I assume, is how they set this time. That the tyre will be f**king hopeless on a rainy, cold November B road in Scotland won't have entered into marketing's minds. They just want the record and damn the practicalities.paulmaurice99 said:
And as for tyres on performance cars that aren't any good on the real roads? What about the Elise, and plenty of others who are equally guilty?
The Yokohama AD07 and the previous Bridgestone RE040 are perfectly acceptable road tyres - if you were talking about the full on A048 trackday tyres fitted to the Exige, perhaps - but then they aren't day to day family cars, nor is the Elise really, and neither is expected to have the range of practical capabilities a hot hatch should have. Honda is far from the only company guilty of putting extreme tyres on cars expected to be practical family hacks, it's been happening at least since the M3 CSL, probably earlier. The point is that if a significant part of the track time comes from using tyres that you won't fit to your own car because you want it to work well in the cold and wet, why give a damn what the time is? And if you are going to run the car on tyres which mean you are going to have to be precious about when and how you use it, why buy a hot hatch instead of something more focused?paulmaurice99 said:
Marketing's fault now is it? I don't remember a marketing person from Honda saying 'it will be the fastest FWD around a track'.
What department do you think that proclamation came from? This has been the most hyped and, I have to say it, overblown, launch of a hot hatch in years. And most of the drip feeding of info and claims on the 'ring record will have been a marketing tactic.paulmaurice99 said:
And as for tyres on performance cars that aren't any good on the real roads? What about the Elise, and plenty of others who are equally guilty? Look, whilst I agree with you that it's probably a lot to do with the tyres, I think it's a little unfair to blame Honda in particular for this. I for one am a little sad they felt the need to go down the max power route (ageing Honda fan here),
I'm probably similarly aged and, yes, a former Honda fan. The problem they've created is that they started off making claims on the 'ring record back when it was around 8' 15". I suspect they got caught by surprise as it suddenly started to drop under the 8 minute mark and they've had to adapt to live up to the promise, because it's simply not the way for a Japanese company to say "sorry, we were wrong" and back down. I'd much rather they made it a fun road car than ruined the ride and made it look ridiculous just to live up to that spurious claim.paulmaurice99 said:
somebody earlier said they had little choice - people will go for the default German choice (and understandably so mostly), unless the Honda is wildly different. They have a point. Honda had to do something, they have a history of doing things differently, however I'm not convinced they've taken the right route. Still, what do I know? Hopefully you can spec it a bit more plainly, and hopefully they do sell.
I'm hoping the offer a version, much like the STI Spec D from a few years ago, that removes the rear wing and makes it a better road car. I wouldn't be caught dead in the default German choice because they bore me to tears. I'd rather have anything Japanese, Italian or, possibly, from Ford. But this is just too wild. I have it on good authority that the next Giulietta, due in 2 years, will have an AWD, 330bhp+ version. A modern Integrale, in effect. I'll wait for that.knebworth01 said:
Ursicles said:
Ford Mustang V8 fully loaded - £35k
Honda Civic Type R fully loaded - £33k.
Hmm... me thinks there is a bit of a difference in class for £2k.
Honda looks horrific ... a halfords/ripspeed special is ever there was one.
Class difference, I assume you mean the Honda is in a higher league to a Ford. You surely couldn't be thinking the other way round? Surely...?Honda Civic Type R fully loaded - £33k.
Hmm... me thinks there is a bit of a difference in class for £2k.
Honda looks horrific ... a halfords/ripspeed special is ever there was one.
Ali_T said:
I'm hoping the offer a version, much like the STI Spec D from a few years ago, that removes the rear wing and makes it a better road car.
And when that happens, I'll pay much more notice. I quite like the Type R's style in a way, but I'd rather have 90% of it (which is more than I'd use on the road anyway) and not draw unwanted attention.Swordman said:
It's a bit weird reading some comments along the lines of "They should have made it a slower, more fun car". One of those already exists (GT86) and nobody is buying it. This is meant to be uncompromisingly quick. And it is. Bravo, I say. Bravo.
No. People are saying they should make *both*. There's certainly a place for the Type R just as it is; there's also a place for a car to fill the massive void between a 1.8 Civic (with optional packet of Werther's Originals on the parcel shelf) and the current Type R. I'm arguing for more choice, not less! 
Ali_T said:
It's more a measure of how much tyre technology has come along. The 'ring has so many high speed corners that a better time can be easily achieved with semi track tyres and Honda have already said they've developed a specific tyre for the Civic which, I assume, is how they set this time. That the tyre will be f**king hopeless on a rainy, cold November B road in Scotland won't have entered into marketing's minds. They just want the record and damn the practicalities.
Most performance cars have tyres tuned to that specific vehicle, its pretty normal now. The R26R came with R888's as standard, or the Porches and BMW's that come with Michelin cut slicks?At least they come standard with the civic, unlike the megane Trophy or SEAT Leon where you needed to pay a 2k premium for the nurburgring pack.
I ran R888's through a full snowy winter and they were better than ANY road tyre i had used before or since.. they got to working temps quite quickly and offered superior grip.
blearyeyedboy said:
No. People are saying they should make *both*. There's certainly a place for the Type R just as it is; there's also a place for a car to fill the massive void between a 1.8 Civic (with optional packet of Werther's Originals on the parcel shelf) and the current Type R. I'm arguing for more choice, not less!
They do offer a Honda Civic Sport now which actually doesn't look too bad IMO. Clicky
Much more cohesive then the monstrosity that is this Type R IMO. Unfortunately it comes with 2 crap engine choices. I'd prefer it if they offered the Type R engine\running gear in this body, sort of like the Type S that they used to do before. In fact if they did I'd more than likely be putting an order in now.
To the Honda employee who posted in this thread on page 4 *AI*, can you please use your inside influence to ask who the hell signed off this design and why the final production version has ended up looking such a mess?
sinbad666 said:
Honda missed a trick with the Type S and not making it into a watered down Type R, like fords RS and ST, VWs R and GTI, Audis RS and S models.
The Type S was too much like a standard model. They need to position it bang in between the standard civic and Type R.
Exactly, make it look like the Honda Sport in the link above, give it a slightly less powerful engine, anything around 220-250bhp would be more than enough to give it enough headroom between the top dog Type R and price it sensibly around the low £20k mark and I reckon they'd be onto a winner. The Type S was too much like a standard model. They need to position it bang in between the standard civic and Type R.
Or alternatively just offer the Type R without all that stuck on tat. I always complain about German hot hatches being too boring and I like to think I am more adventurous than most but the Type R really is several steps to far.
InfamousKeiran said:
For one minute, can we all please appreciate just how brilliant the old Civic Type R looked in comparison to the new one?
Sorry, but that looks terrible.CTR's have never been good to look at but are great individual hot hatches. It's less about looks are more about how they drive, but in saying that I would need to see the new one in the flesh as the current Civic is one of the ugliest cars on the road.
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