The 'cyclists should pay road tax' folks
Discussion
Finlandia said:
Then we are back to 'don't take the piss and you won't get in trouble'.
It may not be against the law, but it's not big and clever either, and it looks like someone has had enough of it or there wouldn't have been any speed checks.
Is there a particular reason you really dislike cycling and cyclists? Promoting taxation, calling for draconian laws, labelling the entire Swedish community as militant. Did your wife run off with a mamil?It may not be against the law, but it's not big and clever either, and it looks like someone has had enough of it or there wouldn't have been any speed checks.
yonex said:
Is there a particular reason you really dislike cycling and cyclists? Promoting taxation, calling for draconian laws, labelling the entire Swedish community as militant. Did your wife run off with a mamil?
Just stating facts. I don't dislike cycling or cyclists, well maybe some, I'm not promoting taxation or draconian laws, just pointing out that cyclists have it easy really, and that it will change over time.Sweden is very bureaucratic and driven by jante.
Mamil, that was a new one for me
but no, not even that.
WinstonWolf said:
jmorgan said:
WinstonWolf said:
Tell you what, how about you come out on a ride with some of us? I bet you'd be happy to borrow someone else's shorts long before we're home...
Never!
DaveCWK said:
There should be a distinction between different types of cycling...
I'd support a cycling ban/levy/tax for certain roads/times, say on a single carriageway A-roads between 7am-9am, where the odd cyclist commuter causes untold stress to many.
Great idea, lets also have a distinction between different types of driving. I'd support a driving ban/levy/tax on certain roads/times, say single track roads/B roads between 0800-1600 at the weekends where Colin McRae wannabees just want to go rag their "weekend toy" around country lanes causing untold stress to many... I'd support a cycling ban/levy/tax for certain roads/times, say on a single carriageway A-roads between 7am-9am, where the odd cyclist commuter causes untold stress to many.
That cyclist you have banned from riding to work is now sat in a car infront of you and adding to the traffic chaos...
just did a quick scoot across town in normal shorts, twisted a b
and *that's* why you should wear Lycra...yonex said:
Mr Gear said:
Johnnytheboy said:
In my experience, people who wear or carry activity-specific clothing or equipment seem to be the ones who don't look very happy about the activity they are performing, be it cycling, jogging, country walking, whatever.
Your comment explains this!
I LOVE cycling! The fact that it irritates idiots when I'm doing it is merely a bonus.Your comment explains this!
It's funny because most car drivers seem really fed up all the time, cycling is amazing. Good 2hrs chasing Owls tonight, middle of the countryside, full moon. Meanwhile 'Jeremy' in accounts drove home had a couple of beers and b
hes relentlessly about how stty his day went 
Finlandia said:
Then we are back to 'don't take the piss and you won't get in trouble'.
It may not be against the law, but it's not big and clever either, and it looks like someone has had enough of it or there wouldn't have been any speed checks.
Isn't a sign with a blue background for information only?It may not be against the law, but it's not big and clever either, and it looks like someone has had enough of it or there wouldn't have been any speed checks.
jmorgan said:
WinstonWolf said:
jmorgan said:
WinstonWolf said:
Tell you what, how about you come out on a ride with some of us? I bet you'd be happy to borrow someone else's shorts long before we're home...
Never!
kiseca said:
To me arrogance is sitting in a car or a truck, in a mile long queue of cars and trucks, unable to overtake a single bicycle because of a constant stream of cars and trucks coming the other way, and thinking that the single bike is the cause of all your delay, not the thousands of cars surrounding you.
No, that's just your own inability to make the distinction between vehicles that are necessary, as opposed to those that are a hindrance to them. Where's the sense in having one idiot feeling it's ok to do something unnecessary in the rush hour, to the detriment of those who have no choice but to travel by van in order to be able to do their job? The speed limit on the road in question is 30mph, not 10.Heaveho said:
No, that's just your own inability to make the distinction between vehicles that are necessary, as opposed to those that are a hindrance to them. Where's the sense in having one idiot feeling it's ok to do something unnecessary in the rush hour, to the detriment of those who have no choice but to travel by van in order to be able to do their job? The speed limit on the road in question is 30mph, not 10.
You show me where cyclists cause delays like this, twice a day every working day.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aq_ce0D9eMQ
You show me where cyclists lengthen journey times fourfold or more, twice a day every working day.
Finlandia said:
... just pointing out that cyclists have it easy really, and that it will change over time.
.....
Yeah, we're having a ball out here - heavily trafficked roads, ignorant, aggressive drivers, cyclist accident rate increasing, potholed roads, s.....
tty weather. What could be more fun than fighting hordes of speeding vehicles for a tiny piece of tarmac every day?
Heaveho said:
kiseca said:
To me arrogance is sitting in a car or a truck, in a mile long queue of cars and trucks, unable to overtake a single bicycle because of a constant stream of cars and trucks coming the other way, and thinking that the single bike is the cause of all your delay, not the thousands of cars surrounding you.
No, that's just your own inability to make the distinction between vehicles that are necessary, as opposed to those that are a hindrance to them. Where's the sense in having one idiot feeling it's ok to do something unnecessary in the rush hour, to the detriment of those who have no choice but to travel by van in order to be able to do their job? The speed limit on the road in question is 30mph, not 10.Don't try tell me the bicycle was holding up a mile long queue of vans, unable to overtake because of a constant stream of vans coming the other way.
Heaveho said:
No, that's just your own inability to make the distinction between vehicles that are necessary, as opposed to those that are a hindrance to them. Where's the sense in having one idiot feeling it's ok to do something unnecessary in the rush hour, to the detriment of those who have no choice but to travel by van in order to be able to do their job? The speed limit on the road in question is 30mph, not 10.
And bloody hell Heaveho, haven't you just fallen hook, line and sinker for the type of person described within the Ian Walker article:Saddle bum said:
Article by Ian Walker.
The underlying problem with anti-cyclist attitudes in the UK is that Britain is, at heart, a deeply hierarchical, authoritarian and status-conscious country. In such an atmosphere the attitudes of individuals who are also deeply hierarchical and Authoritarian, as originally defined by researchers such as Theodore Adorno, are validated and given free expression.
For such individuals cyclists constitute the perfect 'out group'. They form a minority whose values are widely perceived as posing a challenge to the privileges and power of a very dominant, majority in-group. That is motorists. Cyclists, at least those who ride for utility purposes, are widely perceived as only riding a bike because they are forced to do by poverty. As such they are seem to be 'less important' than motorists, especially when the car is such a powerful expression of power and status. Also, there is no legislation outlawing prejudiced attacks on cyclists, as there are with many other minority groups in society, so cyclists have become the ideal figures of hatred for those who psychologically need to identity 'the other' in order to reinforce their sense of in-group belonging.
When one looks at the attacks that cyclists are subjected to, they almost universally display all the signs of the Authoritarian mindset. Cyclists are 'All the same'. The misbehaviour of a minority is held to reflect on the inner psychology of all cyclists. The behaviour of cyclists, as members of a minority out-group, is attributed to supposedly universal internal traits, whilst the behaviour of motorists is much more likely to be attributed to external, situational factors. The misbehaviour of a minority is held to justify harsh punishments and sanctions that affect cyclists as a whole. In comparison, the misbehaviour of a reckless minority of motorists is not held to reflect on motorists in general, and certainly is not regarded as justifying sanctions that would affect drivers in general. Cyclists are often dehumanised, even to the extent of being called 'rodents'. (This coming from Bonnie Greer when she appeared on 'Grumpy old women'). Etc. Etc.
The psychological roots of anti-cyclist prejudice mean that attempts to challenge anti-cyclist prejudice on rational grounds is bound to be largely futile. Such prejudice is not rational; it is instinctive, even if the individual is an expert at rationalising what they instinctively feel.
Attitudes towards cyclists in Britain have remained essentially unchanged for over 100 years. All that has changed is the label that is applied in order to reinforce their out-group identity. In the 1890's cyclists were ridiculed as being 'Monkey's on a wire', then they were dismissed as 'Cads on castors'. Now we have 'Two wheel terrorists' and 'Lycra louts'.
Whilst the image of the cyclist as a 'sporting hero', may have played a role in raising the status of cyclists on the Continent, 100 years of prejudice is unlikely to be overturned by the exploits of the likes of Bradley Wiggins. There are just too many vested interested determine to keep cyclists 'In their place' and, ultimately, hating cyclists, along with other low-status out groups from the poor to single mothers to 'asylum seekers' runs in the blood of a very significant proportion of the British population.
Drivers’ perceptions of cyclists. [Pub by DoT 2002.]
Awareness raising
Education of drivers should focus not on helping them to predict cyclist behaviour but on understanding that circumstances will influence that behaviour. This would require an acknowledgement on the part of the driver that the surrounding environment affects cyclist behaviour and challenge one of the central elements of cyclists’ status as an ‘out group’.
Drivers’ education, including the Highway Code, should include advice on how to respond when encountering cyclists at certain types of road feature, both those explicitly providing for cyclists and other highway features. More clearly defining the appropriate responses may assist drivers in knowing how to behave more considerately and in resisting social pressure from other drivers to force their way past cyclists.
Programmes of training to improve cyclist skills and behaviour may be helpful.
Enforcement
The current low level of enforcement of traffic law with regard to both drivers and cyclists should be increased.
Research
Further research into the behavioural response of drivers to frustrating conditions, including encounters with cyclists, should be conducted in order to establish whether the frustration experienced by drivers is expressed as negative behaviour.
Some regional variations in attitude to cyclists were identified in the early stages of this research. Further research to investigate in more detail the basis of this variation may be useful in identifying practices likely to promote a better relationship between cycle users and motorists.
"The underlying problem with anti-cyclist attitudes in the UK is that Britain is, at heart, a deeply hierarchical, authoritarian and status-conscious country."The underlying problem with anti-cyclist attitudes in the UK is that Britain is, at heart, a deeply hierarchical, authoritarian and status-conscious country. In such an atmosphere the attitudes of individuals who are also deeply hierarchical and Authoritarian, as originally defined by researchers such as Theodore Adorno, are validated and given free expression.
For such individuals cyclists constitute the perfect 'out group'. They form a minority whose values are widely perceived as posing a challenge to the privileges and power of a very dominant, majority in-group. That is motorists. Cyclists, at least those who ride for utility purposes, are widely perceived as only riding a bike because they are forced to do by poverty. As such they are seem to be 'less important' than motorists, especially when the car is such a powerful expression of power and status. Also, there is no legislation outlawing prejudiced attacks on cyclists, as there are with many other minority groups in society, so cyclists have become the ideal figures of hatred for those who psychologically need to identity 'the other' in order to reinforce their sense of in-group belonging.
When one looks at the attacks that cyclists are subjected to, they almost universally display all the signs of the Authoritarian mindset. Cyclists are 'All the same'. The misbehaviour of a minority is held to reflect on the inner psychology of all cyclists. The behaviour of cyclists, as members of a minority out-group, is attributed to supposedly universal internal traits, whilst the behaviour of motorists is much more likely to be attributed to external, situational factors. The misbehaviour of a minority is held to justify harsh punishments and sanctions that affect cyclists as a whole. In comparison, the misbehaviour of a reckless minority of motorists is not held to reflect on motorists in general, and certainly is not regarded as justifying sanctions that would affect drivers in general. Cyclists are often dehumanised, even to the extent of being called 'rodents'. (This coming from Bonnie Greer when she appeared on 'Grumpy old women'). Etc. Etc.
The psychological roots of anti-cyclist prejudice mean that attempts to challenge anti-cyclist prejudice on rational grounds is bound to be largely futile. Such prejudice is not rational; it is instinctive, even if the individual is an expert at rationalising what they instinctively feel.
Attitudes towards cyclists in Britain have remained essentially unchanged for over 100 years. All that has changed is the label that is applied in order to reinforce their out-group identity. In the 1890's cyclists were ridiculed as being 'Monkey's on a wire', then they were dismissed as 'Cads on castors'. Now we have 'Two wheel terrorists' and 'Lycra louts'.
Whilst the image of the cyclist as a 'sporting hero', may have played a role in raising the status of cyclists on the Continent, 100 years of prejudice is unlikely to be overturned by the exploits of the likes of Bradley Wiggins. There are just too many vested interested determine to keep cyclists 'In their place' and, ultimately, hating cyclists, along with other low-status out groups from the poor to single mothers to 'asylum seekers' runs in the blood of a very significant proportion of the British population.
Drivers’ perceptions of cyclists. [Pub by DoT 2002.]
Awareness raising
Education of drivers should focus not on helping them to predict cyclist behaviour but on understanding that circumstances will influence that behaviour. This would require an acknowledgement on the part of the driver that the surrounding environment affects cyclist behaviour and challenge one of the central elements of cyclists’ status as an ‘out group’.
Drivers’ education, including the Highway Code, should include advice on how to respond when encountering cyclists at certain types of road feature, both those explicitly providing for cyclists and other highway features. More clearly defining the appropriate responses may assist drivers in knowing how to behave more considerately and in resisting social pressure from other drivers to force their way past cyclists.
Programmes of training to improve cyclist skills and behaviour may be helpful.
Enforcement
The current low level of enforcement of traffic law with regard to both drivers and cyclists should be increased.
Research
Further research into the behavioural response of drivers to frustrating conditions, including encounters with cyclists, should be conducted in order to establish whether the frustration experienced by drivers is expressed as negative behaviour.
Some regional variations in attitude to cyclists were identified in the early stages of this research. Further research to investigate in more detail the basis of this variation may be useful in identifying practices likely to promote a better relationship between cycle users and motorists.
So is that you, Heavho, where the person in the car or van *truly* believes he is more important than the person on the bicycle?
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