Car vs Bike with a difference
Discussion
Most people will agree that a 16k 1000cc Sportsbike bought from a showroom will pretty much destroy 99% of roadcars but my question is how small a CC bike could hold off a V8 M3 C63 etc I reckon something like a ZXR400 on modern rubber & a suspension refresh would do the job around a track(Cadwell) & in a drag race.
What do you reckon?
What do you reckon?
Arent these debates singularly pointless ?
Bikes are faster than cars but nobody buying a V8 M3 sees a three grand sportsbike as a realistic alternative.
My dad said he remembers a couple of Imprezas giving him a hard time on his VFR and it wasnt quite as decisive as he thought it would be, so bought a Fireblade just to make sure.
Always think bikes are fantastic, but its a huge trade off, much more fun in exchange for any practically, getting wet and the danger element, just raises the stakes too much, especially in combination with that much performance, too tempting.
Bikes are faster than cars but nobody buying a V8 M3 sees a three grand sportsbike as a realistic alternative.
My dad said he remembers a couple of Imprezas giving him a hard time on his VFR and it wasnt quite as decisive as he thought it would be, so bought a Fireblade just to make sure.
Always think bikes are fantastic, but its a huge trade off, much more fun in exchange for any practically, getting wet and the danger element, just raises the stakes too much, especially in combination with that much performance, too tempting.
J4CKO said:
Arent these debates singularly pointless ?
Bikes are faster than cars but nobody buying a V8 M3 sees a three grand sportsbike as a realistic alternative.
My dad said he remembers a couple of Imprezas giving him a hard time on his VFR and it wasnt quite as decisive as he thought it would be, so bought a Fireblade just to make sure.
Always think bikes are fantastic, but its a huge trade off, much more fun in exchange for any practically, getting wet and the danger element, just raises the stakes too much, especially in combination with that much performance, too tempting.
No I wasn't saying which one was better what I was trying to workout what size bike would be the equivalent of a performance saloon.Bikes are faster than cars but nobody buying a V8 M3 sees a three grand sportsbike as a realistic alternative.
My dad said he remembers a couple of Imprezas giving him a hard time on his VFR and it wasnt quite as decisive as he thought it would be, so bought a Fireblade just to make sure.
Always think bikes are fantastic, but its a huge trade off, much more fun in exchange for any practically, getting wet and the danger element, just raises the stakes too much, especially in combination with that much performance, too tempting.
That's why I said that I wasn't looking to say which is better(Bikes) just what makes a fair comparison.
Not very scientific, but I was following my mate's Rally-prepped Subaru Impreza yesterday on my BMW F800S.
He's got a bit over 300hp according to the rolling road he gets it tuned at, with a competition six-speed gearbox.
I've got 85hp according to the BMW stats, but the bike is 30,000 miles old so its probably a bit less.
On a rolling overtake from 30mph we were pretty much equal up to about 11x, at which point he gradually pulled away. The bike was a bit quicker in the 50-80 range.
He's got a bit over 300hp according to the rolling road he gets it tuned at, with a competition six-speed gearbox.
I've got 85hp according to the BMW stats, but the bike is 30,000 miles old so its probably a bit less.
On a rolling overtake from 30mph we were pretty much equal up to about 11x, at which point he gradually pulled away. The bike was a bit quicker in the 50-80 range.
My old CBR400RR was quicker than a friend's 260bhp Audi S2 up to about 90, and stayed next to an E46 M3 and a Roush 427R mustang on separate occasions up to about 60-70 (road didn't let us get faster). I remember managing to keep up with a ferrari 360 on a B road without too much bother but it wasn't being driven well.
I've not really been in a position to test the thundercat 600 against anything as I've not come across anyone particularly 'playful' in a car on it yet but I'd say in a straight line it'd be up there with a V8 M3 to over a ton.
I wouldn't know which way a scooby went on a twisty road.
edit: not that it's a measure of 'the real world' to any meaningful extent but I used to play both Gran Turismo 4 and Tourist Trophy on the PS2, i.e. the car and bike games on the same Polyphony Digital architecture. I managed to get a Honda VFR400 around El Capitan in Tourist Trophy in essentially the same time as an E46 M3 CSL in Gran Turismo 4. Seems to be a reasonable 'wet finger in the air' benchmark.
I've not really been in a position to test the thundercat 600 against anything as I've not come across anyone particularly 'playful' in a car on it yet but I'd say in a straight line it'd be up there with a V8 M3 to over a ton.
I wouldn't know which way a scooby went on a twisty road.
edit: not that it's a measure of 'the real world' to any meaningful extent but I used to play both Gran Turismo 4 and Tourist Trophy on the PS2, i.e. the car and bike games on the same Polyphony Digital architecture. I managed to get a Honda VFR400 around El Capitan in Tourist Trophy in essentially the same time as an E46 M3 CSL in Gran Turismo 4. Seems to be a reasonable 'wet finger in the air' benchmark.
Edited by luckystrike on Wednesday 4th March 10:48
ZX10R NIN said:
Most people will agree that a 16k 1000cc Sportsbike bought from a showroom will pretty much destroy 99% of roadcars but my question is how small a CC bike could hold off a V8 M3 C63 etc I reckon something like a ZXR400 on modern rubber & a suspension refresh would do the job around a track(Cadwell) & in a drag race.
What do you reckon?
Ah, the typical biker's yardstick of a fast car, a big heavy four door saloon with all the toys What do you reckon?
Seriously though, for an E92 M3 or C63 AMG I agree with you, I think a well set up 400 would just about do it on a twisty circuit, or at somewhere more power based an R6 or similar might be needed.
RobM77 said:
Ah, the typical biker's yardstick of a fast car, a big heavy four door saloon with all the toys
Seriously though, for an E92 M3 or C63 AMG I agree with you, I think a well set up 400 would just about do it on a twisty circuit, or at somewhere more power based an R6 or similar might be needed.
Okay what would you say would be a good example of a typically fast car, for example an R6 could cope a Caterham around a track, but I think a drag race between a 600cc & a Caterham would be interesting.Seriously though, for an E92 M3 or C63 AMG I agree with you, I think a well set up 400 would just about do it on a twisty circuit, or at somewhere more power based an R6 or similar might be needed.
As I said at the start of the post I'm not including 1000cc fours & 1200cc twins because then you need P1's 918 etc so what I'm trying to see is what smaller CC bikes could compete with Carrera 2's Golf R's Jag F Types in a drag race around a track etc.
I'm using these cars as there are more of these types of car on the roads.
Edited by ZX10R NIN on Wednesday 4th March 15:34
I think Rob was being a little facetious with you, after all he did agree with you in the same post 
Straight lines and corners are fundamentally different games in both instances. Bikes have ridiculous power to weight and low overall weight, so acceleration is phenomenal. They've only got a wee patch of rubber touching the tarmac though and no real aero influence, so in terms of absolute cornering speeds cars will often outperform bikes.
It would take a disproportionately powerful car to see off a 'middling' bike in straight drag stakes, but a well handling car can keep some very fast two wheeled machinery honest on a tight track. As always, lots and lots of variables - and normally and interesting outcome regardless of the machinery!
Straight lines and corners are fundamentally different games in both instances. Bikes have ridiculous power to weight and low overall weight, so acceleration is phenomenal. They've only got a wee patch of rubber touching the tarmac though and no real aero influence, so in terms of absolute cornering speeds cars will often outperform bikes.
It would take a disproportionately powerful car to see off a 'middling' bike in straight drag stakes, but a well handling car can keep some very fast two wheeled machinery honest on a tight track. As always, lots and lots of variables - and normally and interesting outcome regardless of the machinery!
ZX10R NIN said:
Okay what would you say would be a good example of a typically fast car, for example an R6 could cope a Caterham.
As I said at the start of the post I'm not including 1000cc fours & 1200cc twins because then you need P1's 918 etc so what I'm trying to see is what smaller CC bikes could compete with Carrera 2's Golf R's Jag F Types in a drag race around a track etc.
I'm using these cars as there are more of these types of car on the roads.
I think its a fair question. Quite a few people claim their car is faster (eg. My director reckons i wouldn't know which way his M5 went, and he's probably right). But would a Street Triple (PH favourite!) see off an M3, and M5, or maybe a chipped 330d?As I said at the start of the post I'm not including 1000cc fours & 1200cc twins because then you need P1's 918 etc so what I'm trying to see is what smaller CC bikes could compete with Carrera 2's Golf R's Jag F Types in a drag race around a track etc.
I'm using these cars as there are more of these types of car on the roads.
Not a willy-waving contest, just an interesting comparison
ManFromDelmonte said:
I got suckered into this thread because of the "with a difference" part of the title.
Sadly it's just the same question with the same answer.
Q: Are bikes faster than cars?
A: It depends.
No I'd say what type of bike would you need to make it an even match up for Example a ZXR400 up against a E92 BMW M3 around a track & in a drag race would be a close match up. Sadly it's just the same question with the same answer.
Q: Are bikes faster than cars?
A: It depends.
Bikes go fast on the straight bits
but cars have four tyres on four wheels with four brakes. So cars have the possibility of upsetting a bike if the bike cant stretch its legs
See how quickly an F1 car is against a MotoGP bike, for example. Actually, now I think about it, how does e.g. a GT race car (Ferrari, Porsche etc) compare against a MotoGP bike and maybe a WSBK bike?
but cars have four tyres on four wheels with four brakes. So cars have the possibility of upsetting a bike if the bike cant stretch its legs
See how quickly an F1 car is against a MotoGP bike, for example. Actually, now I think about it, how does e.g. a GT race car (Ferrari, Porsche etc) compare against a MotoGP bike and maybe a WSBK bike?
thatdude said:
Bikes go fast on the straight bits
but cars have four tyres on four wheels with four brakes. So cars have the possibility of upsetting a bike if the bike cant stretch its legs
See how quickly an F1 car is against a MotoGP bike, for example. Actually, now I think about it, how does e.g. a GT race car (Ferrari, Porsche etc) compare against a MotoGP bike and maybe a WSBK bike?
Fair point but I didn't go down the road of race cars vs race bikes because downforce etc come into play.but cars have four tyres on four wheels with four brakes. So cars have the possibility of upsetting a bike if the bike cant stretch its legs
See how quickly an F1 car is against a MotoGP bike, for example. Actually, now I think about it, how does e.g. a GT race car (Ferrari, Porsche etc) compare against a MotoGP bike and maybe a WSBK bike?
But as a side bar I thought these vids were an interesting take on the subject & no the bike doesn't always win, but they are the reason why I didn't want to include 1000cc+ bikes in this topic.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_zb1j8FmW74
Circuit
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IteniLcLImU
Drag Race
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bfLqa4vlmFI
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wael3IrPu44
I used to leave suprecars for dead on my trip to London on my old Aprilla RS250
Mind you, that was going through traffic on the A4 towards Hammersmith. The RS250 (or any bike without paniers) is king in this situation.
Round a track, probably not so much, but I know who will be having the most fun!!
Mind you, that was going through traffic on the A4 towards Hammersmith. The RS250 (or any bike without paniers) is king in this situation.
Round a track, probably not so much, but I know who will be having the most fun!!
J4CKO said:
My dad said he remembers a couple of Imprezas giving him a hard time on his VFR and it wasnt quite as decisive as he thought it would be, so bought a Fireblade just to make sure.
Your dad = 
This thread will descend into playground tit for tat - but the maximum level of coolness has been reached.
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