We are all getting robbed at the pumps!, does anyone care?.

[Welshbeef]

I guess the key question is right now oil is c$61/barrel is that reflected in the forecourt prices as yet - ie prices have gone UP from $48/49 a big step up.

The thing is if an extra $50/barrel was added on today would we see £1.369/ltr diesel appear ie c£0.20/ltr more PR is the price today a little inflated so that when it does go up to $110/barrel all else being equal we get back to the same forecourt point. If its more then yes wee getting ripped off same well depends if we were previously but in a competitive market seems highly unlikely no Cartel

[helidan]

Didn't Jeremy Clarkson once comment that the price we pay for a litre of diesel/petrol is actually very reasonable considering all of the steps required to produce the end product from locating the crude, extracting it, transport, storage/processing, more transport etc. to finally squirting it into our tanks. There's a hell of a lot going on there and the overheads must be eye watering.

With that said I support (in principle) the scrapping of VED and adding it to fuel, I think that's something worth pressurising the government over.

[Welshbeef]

helidan said:

Didn't Jeremy Clarkson once comment that the price we pay for a litre of diesel/petrol is actually very reasonable considering all of the steps required to produce the end product from locating the crude, extracting it, transport, storage/processing, more transport etc. to finally squirting it into our tanks. There's a hell of a lot going on there and the overheads must be eye watering.

With that said I support (in principle) the scrapping of VED and adding it to fuel, I think that's something worth pressurising the government over.

If we took away fuel duty a ltr if fuel would be much cheaper than a ltr of mineral water, and any soft drink you care to mention.

Heck its cheaper than half a ltr of bottled water...

[helidan]

Welshbeef said:

If we took away fuel duty a ltr if fuel would be much cheaper than a ltr of mineral water, and any soft drink you care to mention.

Heck its cheaper than half a ltr of bottled water...

Yep, hell I pay 6oo pence/ltr for the fuel my model helicopter burns!!! That's right, 600 pence!!

[Devil2575]

Dave Hedgehog said:

Antracer said:

45% drop in oil price, less than 20% at the pumps.

filling their greedy pockets thats what.

its a very small part of how the government robs normal working people blind

It's a small part of how government collects tax to pay for the services that most of us want them to provide.

[Roger Irrelevant]

stuart313 said:

There was some kind of quiz in the mail a while ago, it laid out all the income and expenditure of the government and invited you to find a saving in the budget of something stupid like 80 billion, you had to reduce each sector by a sensible amount to balance the books.

It took about 2 seconds to knock the lot off the dole scum section. I could have been through the door of no.11 and out again in time to clock on for my second job by 8AM, being the chancellor is overrated.

How much is collected in fuel revenue?

I've looked at a variety of reputable sources and cannot find any that say that 'dole scum', however you may define that, cost the British taxpayer anything like £80bn per yer, not even close. Which goes to show that if you believe what you read in the Mail then you run the risk of looking like an ill-informed tt.

[TooMany2cvs]

Roger Irrelevant said:

I've looked at a variety of reputable sources and cannot find any that say that 'dole scum', however you may define that, cost the British taxpayer anything like £80bn per yer, not even close.

Indeed.
Total welfare and social security spending is about twice that - £160bn/year - but over half of that goes to pensioners. JSA is less than £5bn/year, plus £4bn/year for ESA.

But, hey, regardless of the actual numbers, I'm sure nobody could possibly disagree with the concept of just leaving the unemployed to starve in the street like dogs...

[balls-out]

TooMany2cvs said:

But, hey, regardless of the actual numbers, I'm sure nobody could possibly disagree with the concept of just leaving the unemployed to starve in the street like dogs...

Sorry but that is OUTRAGEOUS - you can't leave Dogs in the street to starve - poor things

[Mr2Mike]

Antracer said:

RobinBanks said:

I'm rarely directly insulting, but the OP is stupid.

Well that is an intelligent response. Welcome to the discussion. You sound like some half wit moron "duh that guy is stupid".

I think he makes an excellent point. You haven't been able to defend your original (and very ambiguous) statement, and your posts on other threads certainly add weight to his assertion.

[mph1977]

this thread seems to serve one purpose with two subsets of people


1. Identify the economically illiterate

2. Confirm the status of the socoipathic with regard to attitudes towards social protection

[J4CKO]

NRS said:

J4CKO said:

budfox said:

And of course the opposite is true, a tripling in oil prices would bring £3/litre.

Me, I bought a Leaf because I'd rather my money went to some Nissan guys in Sunderland than to the scum of a government that we have now, and that we had before.

So, are you seeing a pattern, have we ever had a government you approve of, would you perhaps like some anarchy instead ? what do they need to do to please ?

The government aren't there to please us, they are there to run the country and make unpopular decisions, ok, they perhaps take that bit a bit too seriously but everyone moans about the government, I tend to look at other countries and think we aren't that badly off.

Those moaning (not you I hasten to add) are often part of the problem, throwing themselves at the state to sort out because they cant be arsed, then moaning about not getting enough free stuff, or those not paying any tax, therefore the burden to pay for it gets dropped on the working punters in PAYE.

Then there is the excessive smoking, eating st, drinking, drugs, idleness, thieving, fighting, bullying, over breeding, littering, vandalism and just revelling in being crap, then usually blaming everything on "immigrants", nobody thinks their own actions affect the bottom line but it does.


Some of it is government mismanagement, some self interest and nepotism, some may be excessive immigration, but I also think government policy is like a mirror that reflects what the population are up to, they can only work with what they have got, they have a lot of disciplined, hard working, law abiding people in this country, but they also have a significant percentage of selfish ignorant stheads draining the life out of it.

It's so stupid. People go off on one about how they're paying too much tax, and yet they're off signing petitions about the NHS cutting expensive drugs and treatments, complain about how underfunded the NHS is etc etc etc. It's like society views the government as taking the money and then just setting fire to it.

Thank You, glad somebody sees what I am getting at.

I had the misfortune to watch a programme the other night and there was a halfwit woman moaning about "the rich" from her taxpayer provided house whilst she got bladdered and was chain smoking, all funded by other people, not satisfied with what she had, she looked well fed, clean and had a roof over her head.

I know that is a bit Daily Mail and the programmes are perhaps contrived to demonise those who claim benefits but they seem to have a lot of candidates, very few see themselves as part of the problem and moan about "the government", this extends all the way up society as well, the problems are limited to "immigrants" and those claiming benefits, there is nothing really wrong with the benefits system, we need it.

I look at myself and try to work out whether I am making a positive contribution, I think I am, I work pretty hard, I look after my kids, I pay a pension for my old age, I pay my taxes and take little in return, I am sure I could do more and need to think about that.


Maybe, for a change, as a country it would be worth trying helping them out a bit and see how that goes rather than moaning ?

I see all the "Proud to be British" posts on Facebook and there does seem to be a lot of nationalistic pride, but it doesn't generally extend to doing anything positive, for some, its seems more a coded way to say "I don't like Muslims", same with the Lee Rigby thing, hundreds of servicemen have been killed in Afghanistan and Iraq and it was horrific and tragic but he seems to have become a martyr figure for the far right, anyway I digress,

The JFK inaugural address quote I think is quite apt,

"Ask not what your country can do for you, ask what you can do for your country"

Edited by J4CKO on Thursday 5th March 12:45

[Devil2575]

J4CKO said:

Thank You, glad somebody sees what I am getting at.

I had the misfortune to watch a programme the other night and there was a halfwit woman moaning about "the rich" from her taxpayer provided house whilst she got bladdered and was chain smoking, all funded by other people, not satisfied with what she had, she looked well fed, clean and had a roof over her head.

I know that is a bit Daily Mail and the programmes are perhaps contrived to demonise those who claim benefits but they seem to have a lot of candidates, very few see themselves as part of the problem and moan about "the government", this extends all the way up society as well.

Whenever you watch or read something (supposedly) factual that invokes an emotion be skeptical. I'm not saying don't believe it but check the facts and question the motivation of the person who wrote it. The intention is frequently to invoke that emotion and so to influence your opinion.

Programs like benefits street and the one you describe are excellent at creating an impression of what people on benefits are like. However there is no context provided. What proportion of people does this portrayal represent, for example. It's like when the Mail publish a story about a single mother with 7 kids all to different fathers living in a £1.5 million mansion. This isn't reflective of the general situation and is in fact a rarity, but they want you to think that everyone on benefits is a scrounger that is simply ripping us off because it suits their political agenda.

Plenty of people are only on benefits for short periods between work and it's rightly there as a safety net. Not everyone who is on benefits is "dole scum" as one poster put it.

[TooMany2cvs]

J4CKO said:

I know that is a bit Daily Mail and the programmes are perhaps contrived to demonise

Rock up with a film crew, then ask about hard enough, and you will ALWAYS find some halfwit willing to say whatever you hope they'll say.

J4CKO said:

I see all the "Proud to be British" posts on Facebook and there does seem to be a lot of nationalistic pride, but it doesn't generally extend to doing anything positive, for some, its seems more a coded way to say "I don't like Muslims", same with the Lee Rigby thing

"For some"? Virtually ALL of these memes originate from the far right. Britain First seem to have gone quiet (thank gawd), but "British Unity" seems to be the most recent one. Three guesses who's behind that? Yep, Nick Griffin...

[chibbard]

J4CKO said:

NRS said:

J4CKO said:

budfox said:

And of course the opposite is true, a tripling in oil prices would bring £3/litre.

Me, I bought a Leaf because I'd rather my money went to some Nissan guys in Sunderland than to the scum of a government that we have now, and that we had before.

So, are you seeing a pattern, have we ever had a government you approve of, would you perhaps like some anarchy instead ? what do they need to do to please ?

The government aren't there to please us, they are there to run the country and make unpopular decisions, ok, they perhaps take that bit a bit too seriously but everyone moans about the government, I tend to look at other countries and think we aren't that badly off.

Those moaning (not you I hasten to add) are often part of the problem, throwing themselves at the state to sort out because they cant be arsed, then moaning about not getting enough free stuff, or those not paying any tax, therefore the burden to pay for it gets dropped on the working punters in PAYE.

Then there is the excessive smoking, eating st, drinking, drugs, idleness, thieving, fighting, bullying, over breeding, littering, vandalism and just revelling in being crap, then usually blaming everything on "immigrants", nobody thinks their own actions affect the bottom line but it does.


Some of it is government mismanagement, some self interest and nepotism, some may be excessive immigration, but I also think government policy is like a mirror that reflects what the population are up to, they can only work with what they have got, they have a lot of disciplined, hard working, law abiding people in this country, but they also have a significant percentage of selfish ignorant stheads draining the life out of it.

It's so stupid. People go off on one about how they're paying too much tax, and yet they're off signing petitions about the NHS cutting expensive drugs and treatments, complain about how underfunded the NHS is etc etc etc. It's like society views the government as taking the money and then just setting fire to it.

Thank You, glad somebody sees what I am getting at.

I had the misfortune to watch a programme the other night and there was a halfwit woman moaning about "the rich" from her taxpayer provided house whilst she got bladdered and was chain smoking, all funded by other people, not satisfied with what she had, she looked well fed, clean and had a roof over her head.

I know that is a bit Daily Mail and the programmes are perhaps contrived to demonise those who claim benefits but they seem to have a lot of candidates, very few see themselves as part of the problem and moan about "the government", this extends all the way up society as well, the problems are limited to "immigrants" and those claiming benefits, there is nothing really wrong with the benefits system, we need it.

I look at myself and try to work out whether I am making a positive contribution, I think I am, I work pretty hard, I look after my kids, I pay a pension for my old age, I pay my taxes and take little in return, I am sure I could do more and need to think about that.


Maybe, for a change, as a country it would be worth trying helping them out a bit and see how that goes rather than moaning ?

I see all the "Proud to be British" posts on Facebook and there does seem to be a lot of nationalistic pride, but it doesn't generally extend to doing anything positive, for some, its seems more a coded way to say "I don't like Muslims", same with the Lee Rigby thing, hundreds of servicemen have been killed in Afghanistan and Iraq and it was horrific and tragic but he seems to have become a martyr figure for the far right, anyway I digress,

The JFK inaugural address quote I think is quite apt,

"Ask not what your country can do for you, ask what you can do for your country"

Edited by J4CKO on Thursday 5th March 12:45

I agree with 100% of what J4CKO has said. I just can't be arsed to type all this stuff myself. Well done J4CKO. It needed saying!!

[thatdude]

I like to think the government is making hay while the sun shines, topping up the treasury after the terrible financial downturn. It might not last long, but if the government can get a bit of money (and we are all still spending less money ourselves on fuel compared to this time last year) which goes back into welfare etc etc that's no bad thing.

If you can't afford to drive, then don't attempt to afford to drive. Living beyond ones means is taking the road to personal financial ruin.

I wonder if anyone has got up in arms about the ever-increasing price of cigs and booze? I dont smoke or drink so I don't give a monkeys. Maybe everyone affected can have a riot on the same day, get it over and done with?

[Hooli]

balls-out said:

TooMany2cvs said:

But, hey, regardless of the actual numbers, I'm sure nobody could possibly disagree with the concept of just leaving the unemployed to starve in the street like dogs...

Sorry but that is OUTRAGEOUS - you can't leave Dogs in the street to starve - poor things

Don't worry, they can feed on the bodies of dead doley scum.

[V8forweekends]

mybrainhurts said:

Johnnytheboy said:

And no fuel protest please, that was a royal PITA last time.

What are you on?

The sight of Blair, Brown and Prescott filling their pants with sticky stuff, going white and stuttering like goats was worth every drop of sweat...

No it wasn't. It was mob rule, what Mrs Thatcher used to call "The Enemy Within"

Amazing how many farmers and hauliers who said they were about to starve could afford all the money and time to try and destroy a government none of them voted for.

And before you start, I am no fan or Blair, Brown et al and I didn't vote for them either.

[TooMany2cvs]

thatdude said:

I like to think the government is making hay while the sun shines, topping up the treasury after the terrible financial downturn.

They aren't, yet. There's still a large deficit - nearly £100bn/year - so the Gov't is still spending a big chunk more than it receives.

[Dr Jekyll]

V8forweekends said:

No it wasn't. It was mob rule, what Mrs Thatcher used to call "The Enemy Within"

Amazing how many farmers and hauliers who said they were about to starve could afford all the money and time to try and destroy a government none of them voted for.

And before you start, I am no fan or Blair, Brown et al and I didn't vote for them either.

It was almost entirely a peaceful protest, nobody was forcibly prevented from doing anything. No comparison with Arthur's pickets.

[Limpet]

stuart313 said:

It took about 2 seconds to knock the lot off the dole scum section. I could have been through the door of no.11 and out again in time to clock on for my second job by 8AM, being the chancellor is overrated.

Hilarious. JSA and DLA come to about £10bn. Even making the (ridiculous) assumption every single person claiming is a scrounger, it's still somewhere between a quarter and an eighth (depending on source) of the cost of tax avoidance by the wealthy in a given period.

You have fallen hook, line and sinker for the cynical divide and conquer politics being played by government. Let the middle and working classes tie themselves in knots playing the blame game while those at the top get away with absolute murder.

I consider myself centre right generally, but you have to be pretty clueless to think taking more from society's poorest will fix anything. Quite the opposite in fact.