RE: Lotus - Geneva 2015
Discussion
Zyp said:
Donkey Apple - you mention the under 40's / over 55's - what about those of us in-between?
The Lotus inbetweenersPerhaps this is the current marque demographic?
40-55
Old enough to be less affected by housing/living costs
Not old enough to already have an Elan Sprint DHC in the garage
Grew up looking at Esprit's, open-mouthed
Memories of Black and Gold racing cars winning stuff
Dug deeper and saw the glory and drama of the 60's
BRG and yellow, Clark and Hill
Roger Moore
Bit of national pride, plucky Brits
Creature comforts and sports cars don't mix
I'm in there somewhere.
I'll be watching the new deals and used prices of the Evora 400 very closely, looks like a fantastic package.
Edited by Dick Seaman on Friday 6th March 09:59
I fall into the 40-50 bracket on a reasonable income
I aspired to own a Porsche and had protracted test drives etc. For some reason the Evora pospped into my head as being a possibility (I think I read somewhere that it had rear seats).
When I drove the Porsches (im my case I was looking at used cars) the 997 and Cayman, I really liked them but there was something leaving me cold, when I dove the Evora is was sold within the first half a mile.
If you are a petrolhead and like the finesse of driving a car with truely remarkable feedback for a production road car, then in all honesty you are mad if you don't try an Evora.
If you are mainly interested in the badge, you are mad if you don't drive an Evora. Lotus's are aspirational, I have many work colleagues who are amazed that I can afford such a car, they really do think that the price of the Evora is in supercar terratory. If you are interested in the badge I also guess that you are interested in exclusivity, the Evora gets you that too.
If you want a well put together interior and somthing that is a bit annodyne, but drives very nicely buy a Porsche, or maybe an Audi
. Even then, you are still mad if you don't try an Evora. (Don't get me wrong, Porsche make great cars, but at the Evora price point, IMO at least the Porsche lacks that "je ne sais quoi")
In some ways the wide sills (of the pre 400 Evora) that make tight car parks a pain, are amongst the things that add to the sense of occasion.
Oh and for the over 50's with piles. The Evora has heated seats
I aspired to own a Porsche and had protracted test drives etc. For some reason the Evora pospped into my head as being a possibility (I think I read somewhere that it had rear seats).
When I drove the Porsches (im my case I was looking at used cars) the 997 and Cayman, I really liked them but there was something leaving me cold, when I dove the Evora is was sold within the first half a mile.
If you are a petrolhead and like the finesse of driving a car with truely remarkable feedback for a production road car, then in all honesty you are mad if you don't try an Evora.
If you are mainly interested in the badge, you are mad if you don't drive an Evora. Lotus's are aspirational, I have many work colleagues who are amazed that I can afford such a car, they really do think that the price of the Evora is in supercar terratory. If you are interested in the badge I also guess that you are interested in exclusivity, the Evora gets you that too.
If you want a well put together interior and somthing that is a bit annodyne, but drives very nicely buy a Porsche, or maybe an Audi
. Even then, you are still mad if you don't try an Evora. (Don't get me wrong, Porsche make great cars, but at the Evora price point, IMO at least the Porsche lacks that "je ne sais quoi")In some ways the wide sills (of the pre 400 Evora) that make tight car parks a pain, are amongst the things that add to the sense of occasion.
Oh and for the over 50's with piles. The Evora has heated seats
What Lotus is is the useable trackday machine. A car for the single guy or couple that can pretty much do it all - thrill on the circuit, be cheap to run, look great and still do the weekly shop.
It is for people who would buy an RS Porsche but want something cheaper and/or even better to drive
They are not Cayman rivals in my eyes.
It is for people who would buy an RS Porsche but want something cheaper and/or even better to drive
They are not Cayman rivals in my eyes.
blueg33 said:
I fall into the 40-50 bracket on a reasonable income
I aspired to own a Porsche and had protracted test drives etc. For some reason the Evora pospped into my head as being a possibility (I think I read somewhere that it had rear seats).
When I drove the Porsches (im my case I was looking at used cars) the 997 and Cayman, I really liked them but there was something leaving me cold, when I dove the Evora is was sold within the first half a mile.
If you are a petrolhead and like the finesse of driving a car with truely remarkable feedback for a production road car, then in all honesty you are mad if you don't try an Evora.
If you are mainly interested in the badge, you are mad if you don't drive an Evora. Lotus's are aspirational, I have many work colleagues who are amazed that I can afford such a car, they really do think that the price of the Evora is in supercar terratory. If you are interested in the badge I also guess that you are interested in exclusivity, the Evora gets you that too.
If you want a well put together interior and somthing that is a bit annodyne, but drives very nicely buy a Porsche, or maybe an Audi. Even then, you are still mad if you don't try an Evora. (Don't get me wrong, Porsche make great cars, but at the Evora price point, IMO at least the Porsche lacks that "je ne sais quoi")
In some ways the wide sills (of the pre 400 Evora) that make tight car parks a pain, are amongst the things that add to the sense of occasion.
Oh and for the over 50's with piles. The Evora has heated seats
Next year ill be looking at 2012 Evora having initially started looking in to the 911. Engine issues with the 911's were not what I expected to read about, cabin noise from faulty windows, other niggles I read about were surprising to me. Also the depreciation of approximately 10% a year was higher than I was expecting. I aspired to own a Porsche and had protracted test drives etc. For some reason the Evora pospped into my head as being a possibility (I think I read somewhere that it had rear seats).
When I drove the Porsches (im my case I was looking at used cars) the 997 and Cayman, I really liked them but there was something leaving me cold, when I dove the Evora is was sold within the first half a mile.
If you are a petrolhead and like the finesse of driving a car with truely remarkable feedback for a production road car, then in all honesty you are mad if you don't try an Evora.
If you are mainly interested in the badge, you are mad if you don't drive an Evora. Lotus's are aspirational, I have many work colleagues who are amazed that I can afford such a car, they really do think that the price of the Evora is in supercar terratory. If you are interested in the badge I also guess that you are interested in exclusivity, the Evora gets you that too.
If you want a well put together interior and somthing that is a bit annodyne, but drives very nicely buy a Porsche, or maybe an Audi
. Even then, you are still mad if you don't try an Evora. (Don't get me wrong, Porsche make great cars, but at the Evora price point, IMO at least the Porsche lacks that "je ne sais quoi")In some ways the wide sills (of the pre 400 Evora) that make tight car parks a pain, are amongst the things that add to the sense of occasion.
Oh and for the over 50's with piles. The Evora has heated seats
For me the Evora has the rear seats I need for my daughter, ample boot space, looks a lot nicer imo and really makes me sit up and notice, is rarer etc etc Clearly there will still be some niggles but depreciation and other factors more than make up for this. It is also far more tuneable thanks to hanger 111.
I also find the lotus brand aspirational and don't understand those who don't but that may just be me. For me the Evora is more of an event in every way and I really hope Lotus succeed.
Stuart
SidewaysSi said:
What Lotus is is the useable trackday machine. A car for the single guy or couple that can pretty much do it all - thrill on the circuit, be cheap to run, look great and still do the weekly shop.
It is for people who would buy an RS Porsche but want something cheaper and/or even better to drive
They are not Cayman rivals in my eyes.
Agreed. Had I not been able to make the jump into a GT3 when I did (I wouldn't today) the Evora was number one on my list for these reasons. Capable on track days but still useable on the roads, with rear seats for littl'uns. None of the engine concerns of the pre-2009 911s, with the added bonuses of exclusivity, more exotic looks and virtually no depreciation. It is for people who would buy an RS Porsche but want something cheaper and/or even better to drive
They are not Cayman rivals in my eyes.
Zyp said:
Donkey Apple - you mention the under 40's / over 55's - what about those of us in-between?
I'm 46, fit, can get in and out a Lotus, don't need nor want fripperies and my piles only announce themselves rarely.
I don't think its all about aspirations - it's about knowing the product and not just buying what journos tell us is the best, nor following the sheep.
Unfortunately for Lotus, there aren't enough true enthusiasts with their own minds.
But Lotus is a very specialised marque - and this is the struggle.
I'm also in the same age group as you. The problem with our demographic is that when you contrast it to the ones either side we are a bad group to be selling this type of product to. It's the group that is most weighed down with both time constraints and fiscal priorities so as such needs far higher disposable income to justify the purchase. Most people in this group are restricted on free time by family commitments and cost of housing and pensions etc mean little is spare after buying the family utility wagon and obligatory holidays etc, let alone school fees or just normal running costs of children. I'm 46, fit, can get in and out a Lotus, don't need nor want fripperies and my piles only announce themselves rarely.
I don't think its all about aspirations - it's about knowing the product and not just buying what journos tell us is the best, nor following the sheep.
Unfortunately for Lotus, there aren't enough true enthusiasts with their own minds.
But Lotus is a very specialised marque - and this is the struggle.
Edited by Zyp on Friday 6th March 08:30
Edited by Zyp on Friday 6th March 08:31
These products catagorically have a target audience of those without children at home.
Agree with Lotus' struggle. But if they want to remain in their tiny niche then they need to completely restructure their business as it is currently built for much higher volumes and then will never, ever get any volume without appealing to the masses and to do that they need to be asperational. You could do this the Bahar way of associating the brand with celebrity and the world of classless bling or you could do it the sensible way and make the body shape look a million dollars.
The one time in history when Lotus Cars had the attention of the world was when they took their top class sporting drivetrain and placed over the top of it a body shell that made it look better, faster, sexier than almost all its much dearer peers. The Esprit. It's the only poster car they've ever made and they never built upon this.
The Evora package is genuinely great but it's not a poster car and the firm try to sell it via engineering prowess. The world doesn't care. If it looks good, if it looks more expensive than it is then it will sell.
Lotus could be selling these by the bucket load in the current economic climate if they just got the looks right. We live and always have done, in a superficial world. Lotus by refusing to accept them condemn themselves to be debt b
hes destined to teeter on the brink of insolvency forever. Instead of being the English Ferrari which is what they should be by now. DonkeyApple said:
Agree with Lotus' struggle. But if they want to remain in their tiny niche then they need to completely restructure their business as it is currently built for much higher volumes and then will never, ever get any volume without appealing to the masses and to do that they need to be asperational. You could do this the Bahar way of associating the brand with celebrity and the world of classless bling or you could do it the sensible way and make the body shape look a million dollars.
Gales has restructured, though (to the usual "circling the drain" noises from the vultures) to get the company to the point where it can realistically grow from the volumes it can achieve. What would do it more good than anything is a really good review of the Evora 400 from Top Gear. It's disappointing that so many people don't have any more informed metric than that, but there you go. Lexus must be absolutely gutted by the hatchet job they got last week.
otolith said:
What would do it more good than anything is a really good review of the Evora 400 from Top Gear. It's disappointing that so many people don't have any more informed metric than that, but there you go. Lexus must be absolutely gutted by the hatchet job they got last week.
This is spot on, but not just Top Gear the other car mags too. Unfortunately the anti Lotus attitudes you see on this thread seem to be pervasive and the cars are judged before anyone even climbs in. PH did their own hatchet job on the Evora SR last year with dumb and factually incorrect reporting, half of PH then jumped on the band wagon. Sadly in a world full of easily guided and rather dumb sheep the likes of Porsche will always been seen as the better car.blueg33 said:
This is spot on, but not just Top Gear the other car mags too. Unfortunately the anti Lotus attitudes you see on this thread seem to be pervasive and the cars are judged before anyone even climbs in. PH did their own hatchet job on the Evora SR last year with dumb and factually incorrect reporting, half of PH then jumped on the band wagon. Sadly in a world full of easily guided and rather dumb sheep the likes of Porsche will always been seen as the better car.
Porsche pay for a lot more adverts and trips to Spain for reviewers than Lotus ever will.DonkeyApple said:
The Evora package is genuinely great but it's not a poster car and the firm try to sell it via engineering prowess. The world doesn't care. If it looks good, if it looks more expensive than it is then it will sell.
Have to agree with that, the looks are good enough to appease the faithful, they're not good enough to convert the doubters.SrMoreno said:
blueg33 said:
This is spot on, but not just Top Gear the other car mags too. Unfortunately the anti Lotus attitudes you see on this thread seem to be pervasive and the cars are judged before anyone even climbs in. PH did their own hatchet job on the Evora SR last year with dumb and factually incorrect reporting, half of PH then jumped on the band wagon. Sadly in a world full of easily guided and rather dumb sheep the likes of Porsche will always been seen as the better car.
Porsche pay for a lot more adverts and trips to Spain for reviewers than Lotus ever will.otolith said:
What would do it more good than anything is a really good review of the Evora 400 from Top Gear. It's disappointing that so many people don't have any more informed metric than that, but there you go. Lexus must be absolutely gutted by the hatchet job they got last week.
Wonder if TG has a problem with Lotus (or the other way round). The Exige v6 hasn't even been on the show! It's silly but it would be the best (and cheapest) PR they could do.
Vee12V said:
Wonder if TG has a problem with Lotus (or the other way round). The Exige v6 hasn't even been on the show!
It's silly but it would be the best (and cheapest) PR they could do.
Clarkson doesn't really fit in the Elise based cars. Gave the original 276bhp Evora a very good review, reserving criticism for the interior and the straight line performance. Which I suppose doesn't do my theory that it would help sales much good, but then there was no follow up because Bahar was about to arrive and treat the Evora like an unwanted stepchild. It's silly but it would be the best (and cheapest) PR they could do.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZHcLP0wvENQ
Vee12V said:
Wonder if TG has a problem with Lotus (or the other way round). The Exige v6 hasn't even been on the show!
It's silly but it would be the best (and cheapest) PR they could do.
I think historically Top Gear (the TV show) has been quite kind to Lotus - glowing reviews of the Elise and Exige (particularly when they did the piece vs the Apache gunship), and mentioning the original Evora's plus points (the amazing ride/handling and the brakes). The original Evora's downsides couldn't really be glossed over. Most recently there was the indestructible (until set upon by an Argentinian mob, that is), go anywhere Esprit. It's silly but it would be the best (and cheapest) PR they could do.
I suspect a lot of it has to do with timing of filming vs when cars are launched (including what other new products may have been launched at the same time). With the Europa, they did actually film it, but that particular series was completely thrown out by Richard Hammond's accident so it never made the series that was actually aired, and I suspect the Exige and MY2012 Evora S were also out of synch with production schedules.
Dick Seaman said:
Have to agree with that, the looks are good enough to appease the faithful, they're not good enough to convert the doubters.
If there is one thing Lotus needs to work on, this is it. LOTUS ARE YOU LISTENING?Convert the doubters, then you can manufacture to max capacity and get your supply chain organised at lowest price possible cost. Accounts start looking good!
Win!
bobbylondonuk said:
If there is one thing Lotus needs to work on, this is it. LOTUS ARE YOU LISTENING?
Convert the doubters, then you can manufacture to max capacity and get your supply chain organised at lowest price possible cost. Accounts start looking good!
Win!
The Evora is very difficult to phitograph. IMO they look alot better in the flesh, by all accounts the new Evora 400 is also much better in the fleshConvert the doubters, then you can manufacture to max capacity and get your supply chain organised at lowest price possible cost. Accounts start looking good!
Win!
Vee12V said:
Wonder if TG has a problem with Lotus (or the other way round). The Exige v6 hasn't even been on the show!
It's silly but it would be the best (and cheapest) PR they could do.
TGtv and Lotus fell out over the Evora S review being a stitch up/addendum to the 1M review. The "drag race" result was totally fabricated. Lotus did also send 3 cars to the best of british mall lineup and got almost no screen time either.It's silly but it would be the best (and cheapest) PR they could do.
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