RE: Lotus - Geneva 2015
Discussion
.Looking at the rear makes me sad.swisstoni said:
They just need to be seen about more, so that the seeds can be sown. If I was in the Lotus marketing dept. I'd be getting some out and about in the sort of places that the demographic for these (or Boxters/Caymans) hang out.
I won't embarrass myself by suggesting where these places are because I'm not young or trendy but the marketers will (or should) know.
Agreed. Get people to get in and out of it. The current Evora needs room to get in and out due to the high sills and long door, making finding places to park it more difficult. With these new sills ingress and egress should be a hell of a lot easier. Widening the market. Not sold on the looks personally but I think it's one of those that will grow on me. God I hope they sell some. I won't embarrass myself by suggesting where these places are because I'm not young or trendy but the marketers will (or should) know.
All credit for the new MD knowing his stuff and for the revamp with this and the other mods bringing sales up to 3000 per annum. Cannot help but think that is he had been MD and Danny Dyer Chairman then there would have been both ambition and attention to detail and some to focus on the daily task of reducing costs and getting cars out the door.
Perhaps 3 cars is 3,000 per annum and a new Esprit makes 4,000 per annum is the way to go.
Still a shame they cannot find someone who was going to bankrupt themselves in F1 by giving all their money to Bernie but veered off into a turnip field and would thus finance Lotus for years to come.
Perhaps 3 cars is 3,000 per annum and a new Esprit makes 4,000 per annum is the way to go.
Still a shame they cannot find someone who was going to bankrupt themselves in F1 by giving all their money to Bernie but veered off into a turnip field and would thus finance Lotus for years to come.
It's a shame Lotus can't do a deal with Toyota and have a 'Lotus corner' in every Lexus dealership and get your Toyota engined Elise/Exige/Evora serviced there with a stamp in the book. It's not like there's any overlap in the ranges so that wouldn't be a problem. It would help brand presence and ease of ownership massively, I would say those are much bigger problems for Lotus in the UK than the quality of the cars.
They've added more power, upgraded brakes, a limited slip differential, a more track focussed chassis and some exterior styling, and hiked the price up to an awful lot more than the original entry level car was. And apparently it's a wonderful bargain. But enough about the GT4.
Lotus have added more power, upgraded brakes, a limited slip differential, a more track focussed chassis, some exterior styling, a completely new and improved interior and structural changes to improve access. But apparently they should not have put the price up.
Laughable.
Lotus have added more power, upgraded brakes, a limited slip differential, a more track focussed chassis, some exterior styling, a completely new and improved interior and structural changes to improve access. But apparently they should not have put the price up.
Laughable.
djt100 said:
Lotus need to go back to basics and look at building something simple at a sub £30k and ideally closer to the £20k mark, then they may actually sell, you'd have to be loaded or mad to spend £70 on that over the other metal available for the money.
It's called the Elise. I think it has been on sale for 19 years now.You think that a 400hp 2+2 sports car for £20-30k less than a similar 911 is too much money? What else out there is comparable for less?
The amount of people around here who have 1995 pricing stuck in their heads beggars belief.
otolith said:
They've added more power, upgraded brakes, a limited slip differential, a more track focussed chassis and some exterior styling, and hiked the price up to an awful lot more than the original entry level car was. And apparently it's a wonderful bargain. But enough about the GT4.
Lotus have added more power, upgraded brakes, a limited slip differential, a more track focussed chassis, some exterior styling, a completely new and improved interior and structural changes to improve access. But apparently they should not have put the price up.
Laughable.
Sounds about right!Lotus have added more power, upgraded brakes, a limited slip differential, a more track focussed chassis, some exterior styling, a completely new and improved interior and structural changes to improve access. But apparently they should not have put the price up.
Laughable.
Porsche have dne an incredible marketing (and engineering) job to get themselves out of their near death only a few short years ago. It truly is remarkable how strong their brand is today. I hope Lotus are able to bring about a similar recovery. I don't really understand all the negativity Lotus threads seem to inspire. The products themselves seem pretty strong to me - especially so considering the budgets and recent mismanagement.
Go Lotus!
chrispj said:
It's a shame Lotus can't do a deal with Toyota and have a 'Lotus corner' in every Lexus dealership and get your Toyota engined Elise/Exige/Evora serviced there with a stamp in the book. It's not like there's any overlap in the ranges so that wouldn't be a problem. It would help brand presence and ease of ownership massively, I would say those are much bigger problems for Lotus in the UK than the quality of the cars.
I like this. 
scenario8 said:
otolith said:
They've added more power, upgraded brakes, a limited slip differential, a more track focussed chassis and some exterior styling, and hiked the price up to an awful lot more than the original entry level car was. And apparently it's a wonderful bargain. But enough about the GT4.
Lotus have added more power, upgraded brakes, a limited slip differential, a more track focussed chassis, some exterior styling, a completely new and improved interior and structural changes to improve access. But apparently they should not have put the price up.
Laughable.
Sounds about right!Lotus have added more power, upgraded brakes, a limited slip differential, a more track focussed chassis, some exterior styling, a completely new and improved interior and structural changes to improve access. But apparently they should not have put the price up.
Laughable.
Porsche have dne an incredible marketing (and engineering) job to get themselves out of their near death only a few short years ago. It truly is remarkable how strong their brand is today. I hope Lotus are able to bring about a similar recovery. I don't really understand all the negativity Lotus threads seem to inspire. The products themselves seem pretty strong to me - especially so considering the budgets and recent mismanagement.
Go Lotus!
braddo said:
It's called the Elise. I think it has been on sale for 19 years now.
You think that a 400hp 2+2 sports car for £20-30k less than a similar 911 is too much money? What else out there is comparable for less?
The amount of people around here who have 1995 pricing stuck in their heads beggars belief.
And it's why Lotus shouldn't bother with the UK. Their future lies with all British brands, selling abroad to people wo have money and are upwardly mobile. You think that a 400hp 2+2 sports car for £20-30k less than a similar 911 is too much money? What else out there is comparable for less?
The amount of people around here who have 1995 pricing stuck in their heads beggars belief.
The UK is just a big welfare State full of people living in handouts and expecting to be given nice things without working for them. Add that to zero wage inflation in the typical Lotus demographic and house price/rent induced poverty it's hardly worth the bother. It's why so many products have gone over the £100k level in search of customers and turned their products into old people's homes as the target customers are over 55s.
TTmonkey said:
CTE said:
Don`t understand the comment about the crash helmet room...there`s loads of headroom?
Yes, surely that's a factor of the height of the driver? My son in law is 6'8.... I suspect he isn't going to fit.I'm a more modest 5'10" and even with the seat raked back there was very little space between by head and the roofline above the door. Wearing a helmet it would be knocking all the time...
One of the more significant things about the 400 is that it is federalised. Gales has confirmed that the Exige is going to get the 400bhp engine and easier access - I guess being able to sell that in the US too would be a big target.
http://www.carmagazine.co.uk/car-news/motor-shows-...
http://www.carmagazine.co.uk/car-news/motor-shows-...
leglessAlex said:
According to an online inflation calculator that £22,000 Elise would cost £36,885 today.
Strangely enough, the Elise S costs £36,000 today! So really it hasn't gone up in price at all, depending on which model of Elise SidewaysSi was talking about it may even be a bit cheaper.
Edit: It was the base spec Elise released in 1996 that was £18,950 base price which in todays money is £31,770. The base spec Elise today costs £29,000 (£28,500 for the CR) so actually it has come down in price!
The Boxster is an interesting comparison, also launched in 1996 - 31k then would be 52k now, but they start at 39k. And that's moved from 204bhp to 265bhp, weight about the same iirc.Strangely enough, the Elise S costs £36,000 today! So really it hasn't gone up in price at all, depending on which model of Elise SidewaysSi was talking about it may even be a bit cheaper.
Edit: It was the base spec Elise released in 1996 that was £18,950 base price which in todays money is £31,770. The base spec Elise today costs £29,000 (£28,500 for the CR) so actually it has come down in price!
Edited by leglessAlex on Thursday 5th March 00:09
Lotus website says they start at 31k now for 134bhp and 876kg. (1996 was 118bhp and circa 725kg)
MX5 would be another interesting comparison, but in terms of bang for your buck I don't think Lotus have exactly moved with the times (i.e. providing more bang for less buck)
Edited by danp on Thursday 5th March 13:31
Civpilot said:
I also agree with a previous poster who implied Lotus should make another entry level 'affordable' sports car like the original Elise. When the new MX5 launches (that early drives have called an absolute gem of a car) I think it will sell massively well. Starting price of £20k. Current Elise starts at about £28k. Imagine if Lotus could put out a car at £20k again?
SidewaysSi pointed out earlier in the thread that Lotus never made an 'affordable' car in the first place. If you see my post further up you'll see that actually the Elise has come down in price once you take inflation into account. Are those figures you quoted EU only? As Lotus sales are up 54% worldwide over the past nine months, which I think isn't bad. They aren't going to be a big player but then Gales isn't trying to make them into a big player. The current thinking seems to be along the lines of 'lets stop losing money first and then take it from there', and they seem to be going in the right direction for that.
Obviously comparisons to Porsche will always happen but it's kind of pointless, Porsche is leagues ahead of Lotus in manufacturing terms and again, by the sound of it, Gales isn't trying to change that. Taking the fight to Porsche was Bahars idea and probably not a very smart one. Probably better to eventually aim for Aston Martin levels of production.
danp said:
The Boxster is an interesting comparison, also launched in 1996 - 31k then would be 52k now, but they start at 39k. And that's moved from 204bhp to 265bhp, weight about the same iirc.
Lotus website says they start at 31k now for 134bhp and 876kg. (1996 was 118bhp and circa 725kg)
MX5 would be another interesting comparison, but in terms of bang for your buck I don't think Lotus have exactly moved with the times (i.e. providing more bang for less buck)
This is true, cars in general have got cheaper. The MX5 cost £14,249 when it was released in 1990 which is £28,927 in 2014 money. Last year the MX5 started at £18,495! Lotus website says they start at 31k now for 134bhp and 876kg. (1996 was 118bhp and circa 725kg)
MX5 would be another interesting comparison, but in terms of bang for your buck I don't think Lotus have exactly moved with the times (i.e. providing more bang for less buck)
Yes, you generally get more bang for you buck these days but Porsche and Mazda are so much bigger that they can provide this reduction in price. Someone is welcome to check but I'm guessing the likes of Aston Martin haven't seen such a reduction in price over the last 20 years.
ETA: I'm guessing Porsche and other companies have also changed the way they sell cars over the last 20 odd years. The starting price of a Boxster is £39,000 but how many are sold at that price? It seems Porsche now aims to make a lot of profit on options and I wouldn't be surprised if the sale price of a Boxster these days was closer to £45,000.
Edited by leglessAlex on Thursday 5th March 13:53
Civpilot said:
I also agree with a previous poster who implied Lotus should make another entry level 'affordable' sports car like the original Elise. When the new MX5 launches (that early drives have called an absolute gem of a car) I think it will sell massively well. Starting price of £20k. Current Elise starts at about £28k. Imagine if Lotus could put out a car at £20k again?
We're talking a low volume and largely hand-made aluminium and fibreglass car - is it reasonable to think Lotus could sell it for the same money as a massively mass produced pressed steel car? It's expecting a hand made suit for the price of Primark.A contemporary MX-5 was about 3/4 of the price of a MK1 Elise. Still similar.
DonkeyApple said:
And it's why Lotus shouldn't bother with the UK. Their future lies with all British brands, selling abroad to people wo have money and are upwardly mobile.
The UK is just a big welfare State full of people living in handouts and expecting to be given nice things without working for them. Add that to zero wage inflation in the typical Lotus demographic and house price/rent induced poverty it's hardly worth the bother. It's why so many products have gone over the £100k level in search of customers and turned their products into old people's homes as the target customers are over 55s.
Although the words "shouldn't bother with the UK" seem more than rhetorical, there's something illuminating in the argument presented here. The UK is just a big welfare State full of people living in handouts and expecting to be given nice things without working for them. Add that to zero wage inflation in the typical Lotus demographic and house price/rent induced poverty it's hardly worth the bother. It's why so many products have gone over the £100k level in search of customers and turned their products into old people's homes as the target customers are over 55s.
One starts to think about things like innovation, purchasing power, unintended consequences, and all that. Probably worth an entire thread on its own.
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