RE: Lotus Exige V6 Cup: Spotted

[Axionknight]

Krikkit said:

Gorgeous, I love that grey; it's like trying to pretend to be sensible and failing hugely.

That looks ace as well as smiley - awesome colour too!

[unpc]

PhilboSE said:

That Exige engine looks a bit short of puff - supercharged and still only 100bhp/litre?

£10k difference for second hand Exige vs new Cayman GT4 wouldn't be enough to sway me, I'm afraid.

In what world does specific output really matter? Who exactly benefits from having a highly strung engine? Engines with high specific horsepower figures generally suffer from a lack of torque as well which is fine on a race track but tedious on the road.

[kbf1981]

Chris71 said:

Absolutely adore these. Drove a V6 Cup and the track-only Cup R last year at Hethel and it has to be the best handling road car I've ever driven. Great engine as well as an incredible chassis.

I agree.

I've had 3 Porsches, a Gallardo, F430 and test driven milessss more.... the Exige V6 is the fastest car I've ever driven on country roads. It just sticks to the road like nothing else, and braking / acceleration is very, very impressive.

[kbf1981]

For those who've never driven an Exige V6 .... go drive one. I first test drove one when I had an LP550-2, and actually came away thinking it was a fast car. That should give you an idea of just how much of a weapon an Exige V6 is.

[Zyp]

kbf1981 said:

For those who've never driven an Exige V6 .... go drive one. I first test drove one when I had an LP550-2, and actually came away thinking it was a fast car. That should give you an idea of just how much of a weapon an Exige V6 is.

The naysayers will find something wrong - like you can't get much shopping in the boot or 'it's a bit noisy.....'

[kambites]

PhilboSE said:

£10k difference for second hand Exige vs new Cayman GT4 wouldn't be enough to sway me, I'm afraid.

A new Exige is still cheaper than the new Cayman.

[PhilboSE]

unpc said:

In what world does specific output really matter?

A world where a smaller higher output engine would weigh less. But I guess weight doesn't matter to a Lotus...oh.

unpc said:

Who exactly benefits from having a highly strung engine? Engines with high specific horsepower figures generally suffer from a lack of torque as well

Cayman GT4 310lb/ft, Exige V6 295lb/ft. What was your point again?

unpc said:

which is fine on a race track but tedious on the road.

And the natural home of the Exige V6 is indeed a racetrack, more so than the Cayman GT4 which would I suspect be rather less tedious on the road.

[kambites]

What does the Porsche engine weigh, then? The supercharged Toyota lump in the Exige seems to be about 180-190kg wet with all ancillaries (except the gearbox). I'd be surprised if the 3.8 in the Cayman is that much lighter?

ETA: Or maybe those figures are for the four-pot, it sounds suspiciously light for a V6. Google comes up with various sites that give that weight for the V6 but they might all be using the same (wrong) source.

Edited by kambites on Tuesday 10th March 18:21

[walm]

kambites said:

PhilboSE said:

£10k difference for second hand Exige vs new Cayman GT4 wouldn't be enough to sway me, I'm afraid.

A new Exige is still cheaper than the new Cayman.

Isn't it more like £20k delta when you have added in some of the extras mentioned?
Say with a little haggling £50k vs. £70k.

[braddo]

PhilboSE said:

And the natural home of the Exige V6 is indeed a racetrack, more so than the Cayman GT4 which would I suspect be rather less tedious on the road.

The cars will be an interesting contrast. I expect the Exige will be faster on track and road as well. It will also ride better, although people may not notice because the cabin is more spartan and harder to get in and out of compared to the GT4.

[PhilboSE]

kambites said:

What does the Porsche engine weigh, then? The supercharged Toyota lump in the Exige seems to be about 180-190kg wet with all ancillaries (except the gearbox). I'd be surprised if the 3.8 in the Cayman is that much lighter?

Edited by kambites on Tuesday 10th March 18:17

I don't know, but that's not really the point I was originally trying to make. I was just struck by a modern supercharged engine only making 100bhp/litre. I remember tuning normally aspirated Mi16 or good old Astra GTi Red Top lumps to get that relatively easily. My old Exige VHPD made 105bhp/litre.

I'm sure the Exige V6 is a fantastic car. I owned a Lotus for 14 years and ran an old Mk 1 Exige ex-Cup car on the track, so I don't have an anti-Lotus axe to grind. Just an observation about the engine's output.

The original article made the comparison between a GT4 and a second hand Exige at a £10k differential; on that basis I'd find it hard to choose the Exige. Take another slice off the Exige and it would start to look interesting...

[ucb]

PhilboSE said:

I don't know, but that's not really the point I was originally trying to make. I was just struck by a modern supercharged engine only making 100bhp/litre. I remember tuning normally aspirated Mi16 or good old Astra GTi Red Top lumps to get that relatively easily. My old Exige VHPD made 105bhp/litre.

I'm sure the Exige V6 is a fantastic car. I owned a Lotus for 14 years and ran an old Mk 1 Exige ex-Cup car on the track, so I don't have an anti-Lotus axe to grind. Just an observation about the engine's output.

The original article made the comparison between a GT4 and a second hand Exige at a £10k differential; on that basis I'd find it hard to choose the Exige. Take another slice off the Exige and it would start to look interesting...

Compare it to a second hand GT4 in a years time then....

[kbf1981]

PhilboSE said:

unpc said:

In what world does specific output really matter?

A world where a smaller higher output engine would weigh less. But I guess weight doesn't matter to a Lotus...oh.

unpc said:

Who exactly benefits from having a highly strung engine? Engines with high specific horsepower figures generally suffer from a lack of torque as well

Cayman GT4 310lb/ft, Exige V6 295lb/ft. What was your point again?

unpc said:

which is fine on a race track but tedious on the road.

And the natural home of the Exige V6 is indeed a racetrack, more so than the Cayman GT4 which would I suspect be rather less tedious on the road.

It's a strong engine that you KNOW will never have any problems for hundreds of thousands of miles. The Porsche engine may well be strong, but I massively doubt it's anywhere near as strong as the Toyota lump. Granted a toyota engine may not be glamorous, but then a Pagani uses an Merc lump and you can get Merc lumps in £15k cars now.

In any case, I've own the previous generation Cayman S, 997 of various ilk and the Exige V6 feels much more of a unique experience. The Porsche's are nice everyday cars, but "everyone has one", and they don't feel as much of an event. The Exige V6, to me feels like an event, and is silly fast on anything with bends.

[kbf1981]

walm said:

kambites said:

PhilboSE said:

£10k difference for second hand Exige vs new Cayman GT4 wouldn't be enough to sway me, I'm afraid.

A new Exige is still cheaper than the new Cayman.

Isn't it more like £20k delta when you have added in some of the extras mentioned?
Say with a little haggling £50k vs. £70k.

Cayman GT4 = £75k after options?
Cayman S = £65-70k with decent options?

An Exige Coupe V6 with everything is £63k I think, though you can get a great one with decent kit for £50k~ second hand. Bear in mind you're likely to suffer minimal depreciation too, given the old Exige 1.8S is still £25-35k for a good supercharged one, whereas a Cayman S which cost it's first owner £60k in 2008 is worth... what now? :/

[andy_s]

PhilboSE said:

kambites said:

What does the Porsche engine weigh, then? The supercharged Toyota lump in the Exige seems to be about 180-190kg wet with all ancillaries (except the gearbox). I'd be surprised if the 3.8 in the Cayman is that much lighter?

Edited by kambites on Tuesday 10th March 18:17

I don't know, but that's not really the point I was originally trying to make. I was just struck by a modern supercharged engine only making 100bhp/litre. I remember tuning normally aspirated Mi16 or good old Astra GTi Red Top lumps to get that relatively easily. My old Exige VHPD made 105bhp/litre.

I'm sure the Exige V6 is a fantastic car. I owned a Lotus for 14 years and ran an old Mk 1 Exige ex-Cup car on the track, so I don't have an anti-Lotus axe to grind. Just an observation about the engine's output.

The original article made the comparison between a GT4 and a second hand Exige at a £10k differential; on that basis I'd find it hard to choose the Exige. Take another slice off the Exige and it would start to look interesting...

In real terms at least you can get hold of an Exige, and the option of a lighter 400 version later on would make it a very interesting choice - gotta be a sub-4sec car?

[sad61t]

Alas anything capable of over 40mph is pretty useless for me (soon to be 20mph on one road as the traffic calming chicanes made no difference to speeds except at commuter time when the tailbacks from the contraflow make walking faster), and a 1 litre shopping trolley is adequate for motorways. Forgive the whine (gifts of cheese accepted) I have a cold.

ETA: I think the grey Lotus looks superb and wish I lived in an area that made driving it worthwhile.

Edited by sad61t on Tuesday 10th March 19:07

[kambites]

Yeah 100bhp/litre is low for a forced induction engine, but I don't see that as a bad thing as long as it's a reasonable weight. Ironically the power to weigh ratio of the reworked 400bhp engine and ancillaries might actually be lower because of the added weight of the charge cooler.

[Tickle]

Money no object I still think the V6 Cup is my favourite car. Hoping to get a go in one soon.

I do hope they get some good sales in this new era of management. I was going to say I would like to see a head to head and good publicity on Topgear against the GT4 but that may have to be on the back burner for a while!

[The Pits]

Blowing £65k on a sportscar is a crazy thing to do. I vowed never to buy another new car again, but the Exige V6 changed all that. I couldn't do it for a car I merely admired, so I'm not remotely tempted by a Cayman or 911. I need an emotional impulse to override my better judgement against buying new. The Exige V6 is an object of sheer automotive lust! I remember thinking the F40 was expensive until I saw it in the flesh. Right there and then, if I had the means I'd have written the cheque. Normally the thought of having THAT discussion again with Mrs Pits is enough to put me off buying another car. One look at the Exige and I'm having those trousers back for a bit!

Lots of current and ex-Cayman owners have been asking about Exige V6s lately, it's a similar tale every time. They like their Caymans a lot and were very impressed to start with but have begun to yearn for something a bit more visceral, intense and communicative. It's everyday excellence becomes a bit uneventful after a while. After all, a fast Golf is an even better daily servant and a sportscar must offer some drama in exchange for some of the practicality. Porsche fans find it impossible to believe how anyone could prefer a cheap, plastic canoe made in Norfolk to their thoroughbred masterpiece of german engineering. But is it really so hard to understand? If the Cayman is as refined, precise, sophisticated and meticulous as a JS Bach recital, the Exige V6 is a Led Zeppelin concert. What for some may appear crude, uncomfortable, unsophisticated and improvised is, for others, a whole lot more fun.

[Zyp]

The Pits said:

Blowing £65k on a sportscar is a crazy thing to do. I vowed never to buy another new car again, but the Exige V6 changed all that. I couldn't do it for a car I merely admired, so I'm not remotely tempted by a Cayman or 911. I need an emotional impulse to override my better judgement against buying new. The Exige V6 is an object of sheer automotive lust! I remember thinking the F40 was expensive until I saw it in the flesh. Right there and then, if I had the means I'd have written the cheque. Normally the thought of having THAT discussion again with Mrs Pits is enough to put me off buying another car. One look at the Exige and I'm having those trousers back for a bit!

Lots of current and ex-Cayman owners have been asking about Exige V6s lately, it's a similar tale every time. They like their Caymans a lot and were very impressed to start with but have begun to yearn for something a bit more visceral, intense and communicative. It's everyday excellence becomes a bit uneventful after a while. After all, a fast Golf is an even better daily servant and a sportscar must offer some drama in exchange for some of the practicality. Porsche fans find it impossible to believe how anyone could prefer a cheap, plastic canoe made in Norfolk to their thoroughbred masterpiece of german engineering. But is it really so hard to understand? If the Cayman is as refined, precise, sophisticated and meticulous as a JS Bach recital, the Exige V6 is a Led Zeppelin concert. What for some may appear crude, uncomfortable, unsophisticated and improvised is, for others, a whole lot more fun.

[pichttp://i202.photobucket.com/albums/aa292/jjnapalm/XGBforest5_zps614fc9c1.jpg[/pic]

Amen to that.
Pretty much how I feel.