RE: What happened to the pocket rocket? PH Blog
Discussion
rallycross said:
the pocket rocket is not things like a Clio Williams that was king of the hot hatch, we are talking a class down from this, starting with things like Uno Turbo, AX GT, then Saxo VTR, Lupo Gti small and very light and CHEAP!
No reason why we cant still have models like this using the smallest models with a sporty variant.
Indeed, I think a fair few people are missing the point, we're talking 100-120bhp tops in the smallest, lightest model going. In todays terms think Up/Mii/Citigo, 107/C1/Aygo, i10, Twingo, Picanto etc.No reason why we cant still have models like this using the smallest models with a sporty variant.
Even the old Renaultsport Twingo would have been a step too far, but the GT TCE model would fit the bill.
There is no need for insurance to get out of control for these, particularly for those in their early 20s. I know plenty of people would buy something a little more fun without taking the relatively bigger step up to a Renaultsport, GTi etc.
s m said:
Ha ha that's mine. But I'll let them off 
Dr Interceptor said:
The problem is with them they have very limited appeal.
The whole point of the small car like the 108/CityGo/Twingo/Up is that they are cheap to buy, cheap to fuel, cheap to insure and cheap to maintain.
They are popular with very young drivers due to the low insurance, and favoured by parents due to relatively high levels of safety versus an old banger.
Fit a 130bhp engine in, and they will no longer be cheap to insure. That rules out most young drivers under 25, as they simply won't pay £2-3000 to insure a small car.
So, the only people that can run them sensibly are the 25+ age bracket. Problem is by 25 we want more than a 130bhp hatch. Whether its a hotter hatch, sports car, or something else, once you're 25 you can insure some much more interesting metal, so the junior hatch is long forgotten.
Nail. Head. The whole point of the small car like the 108/CityGo/Twingo/Up is that they are cheap to buy, cheap to fuel, cheap to insure and cheap to maintain.
They are popular with very young drivers due to the low insurance, and favoured by parents due to relatively high levels of safety versus an old banger.
Fit a 130bhp engine in, and they will no longer be cheap to insure. That rules out most young drivers under 25, as they simply won't pay £2-3000 to insure a small car.
So, the only people that can run them sensibly are the 25+ age bracket. Problem is by 25 we want more than a 130bhp hatch. Whether its a hotter hatch, sports car, or something else, once you're 25 you can insure some much more interesting metal, so the junior hatch is long forgotten.
I guess that from the manufacturers perspective when considering selling a hot hatch:
1. its harder to design and engineer a smaller car than a larger one
2. its harder to build in all of the technology, security and safety features that the market seems to demand
3. its harder to make a profit out of a cheaper car than a more expensive one
Makes it difficult to build a business case, particularly given the backdrop of insurance costs faced by a target market.
I'm off to check the classifieds for a 205GTi.
1. its harder to design and engineer a smaller car than a larger one
2. its harder to build in all of the technology, security and safety features that the market seems to demand
3. its harder to make a profit out of a cheaper car than a more expensive one
Makes it difficult to build a business case, particularly given the backdrop of insurance costs faced by a target market.
I'm off to check the classifieds for a 205GTi.
I love my mk1 Yaris T-Sport.
1.5 av mpg of 38-40 and with 105(ish)bhp and identical torque.
It's not a hot hatch, but I do love how it looks compared to the newer larger hatches, and the ride is great too.
I'm 30 and with a London postcode, so I'd like something sporty and fun, but without the high running costs and low mpg.
After selling the Celica I didn't think the Yaris would make me smile as much, but (seating position aside) I really do find myself grinning from ear-to-ear when I go out for a little hoon in the Yaris.
1.5 av mpg of 38-40 and with 105(ish)bhp and identical torque.
It's not a hot hatch, but I do love how it looks compared to the newer larger hatches, and the ride is great too.
I'm 30 and with a London postcode, so I'd like something sporty and fun, but without the high running costs and low mpg.
After selling the Celica I didn't think the Yaris would make me smile as much, but (seating position aside) I really do find myself grinning from ear-to-ear when I go out for a little hoon in the Yaris.
vtecyo said:
Pixelpeep7r said:
unless you want to use it on the motorway in which case you will have zero help from the batteries after a mile or so.
Well there's a fabulous thing called an internal combustion engine under the sheet of metal at the front of the car for just such eventualities.The point i was making is - This car in particular gets its 'shove' by relying on the torque the battery motor produces. The batteries are not charged whilst the car is traveling at a constant speed with no braking or coasting. So, the main point of this car is lost after you take it on the motorway, it just becomes a supercharged 1.5 litre petrol car which will use more fuel than a larger engined non hybrid car.
Town use - perfect.
Take it on the motorway and ..
Hybrid for economy - fail
hybrid addition for sporty feel - fail
vtecyo said:
Mugen do / did if you're willing to import one from Japan and pay for the privilege.
I had that in mind when I was typing the post, what I was hoping Honda would do was release an intermediate model. A CRZ Type R, perhaps? Perfect platform for them to forge ahead in the Hybrid Sports market. Get a bigger petrol engine in there, don't over-tyre or over-power it, just keep the light, fun steer with a bit more grunt. Good call on the Charade GTti below. I had a couple and they were very special clever little things.
We also have an '04 Yaris T-Sport which, as per the earlier post, is a superb, well-engineered little car.
Bar the high seating position, it gets everything right.
The general driving position is superb, the steering (including the steering wheel rim thickness), gearchange, brakes, pedal position are all spot on and you can adjust the line using the throttle when you've got a bit of momentum.
It also has very short overhangs so is fantastic around town. Very underrated.
We also have an '04 Yaris T-Sport which, as per the earlier post, is a superb, well-engineered little car.
Bar the high seating position, it gets everything right.
The general driving position is superb, the steering (including the steering wheel rim thickness), gearchange, brakes, pedal position are all spot on and you can adjust the line using the throttle when you've got a bit of momentum.
It also has very short overhangs so is fantastic around town. Very underrated.
Pixelpeep7r said:
Mini Cooper S, Fiesta ST, Twingo ?
Cooper and ST are a class and price bracket above what's being talked about here though me thinks.--
I'd love to see a return of this sort of car. The 500 Abarth is comparable in size to the so-called pocket rockets, and is based on the Panda platform, but price wise, it's in a different sector.
The other thing I'd add to the PH requirements list is where five doors are an option, make them available! Even in the class above there are precious few options. The Fiesta ST is available Stateside with five doors but not in the UK!! I'd have one tomorrow if they were.
rallycross said:
the pocket rocket is not things like a Clio Williams that was king of the hot hatch, we are talking a class down from this, starting with things like Uno Turbo, AX GT, then Saxo VTR, Lupo Gti small and very light and CHEAP!
No reason why we cant still have models like this using the smallest models with a sporty variant.
Point taken. Fiat Cinquecento Sporting? No reason why we cant still have models like this using the smallest models with a sporty variant.
adw1979 said:
The standard Abarth 500 costs £14500, has 135BHP and weights about 1100kg
It is a great car for driving and defo fits the pocket rocket tag.
There is also an option for more power.
Here is mine
Also Adam Jam with the new 1 litre turbo - £13500 - most importantly a current offer for £99 insurance for teenagers ( free to over 21 ) - 113bhp/125lb ft torque - 6-speed box - 1063kg ( only a fat person more than a Saxo VTS ) - top speed 121mphIt is a great car for driving and defo fits the pocket rocket tag.
There is also an option for more power.
Here is mine
Free/cheap insurance sold a lot of Saxo VTR/VTS'
hoppo4.2 said:
s m said:
Ha ha that's mine. But I'll let them off Matt
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