RE: What happened to the pocket rocket? PH Blog
Discussion
I just bought a Fiesta Red Edition. I have driven and owned a lot of different cars (Seat Leon Cupra R, Golf VR6, Audi TT, Evo 8, Mk5 Golf GT Sport) in my time but this is one of, if not the best handling car I have ever driven. Seems to meet many of the criteria in the article. 140 bhp, near as dammit 1000kg,small capacity engine and cheap insurance, mind you I am 42 but should be far cheaper to insure than an ST for younger drivers. I dismissed fords in the past and was originally looking at a new mini. Test drove it and the vibe I got was definitely 'meh'. Too many bells and whistles and just not exciting enough to drive. The Fiesta is light, has awesome turn in and grips like you wouldn't believe, you can even get lift off oversteer if you fancy. I know there are tons of fiestas about but don't write off this version. It really is a cracker. Should be able to pick one up for £13k or thereabouts with discounts. I do look a bit of an ageing chav in it but I don't care when I am having this much fun.
Baryonyx said:
If we're going back to old Japanese pocket rockets, can I skip the Pulsar GTi-R and the 323 Turbo and go straight for the March Super Turbo? I've always wanted a go in one of these!
[img]https://encrypted-tbn2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcStfMuIKWTknUQzKgLNqfpkLINnympMahVSB7ka6WkU78-FrJNX[img]
They look a bit boxy and dull, but I'd like to drive one. I wish we had got it here, along with fun nineties turbo superminis like the Starlet/Glanza Turbo.[img]https://encrypted-tbn2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcStfMuIKWTknUQzKgLNqfpkLINnympMahVSB7ka6WkU78-FrJNX[img]
s m said:
Also Adam Jam with the new 1 litre turbo - £13500 - most importantly a current offer for £99 insurance for teenagers ( free to over 21 ) - 113bhp/125lb ft torque - 6-speed box - 1063kg ( only a fat person more than a Saxo VTS ) - top speed 121mph
Free/cheap insurance sold a lot of Saxo VTR/VTS'
I can see those being popular with teenagers who want to move on from their first car, and get something with a bit of power. Like you said insurance deals worked for the Citroen Saxo VTR/VTS, and the Adam has a funky interior with nice wheels.Free/cheap insurance sold a lot of Saxo VTR/VTS'
My dad used to own an AX GT, and my dads mate, in an attempt to upstage, got the GT500 (apologies for the cheesy picture 
)
His had leather interior (well, it claimed to be anyway
)
They weighed something like 750 kg (may have been even less), and had 85 bhp but it felt like an absolute rocket. The thing would probably get out-dragged by a half decent shopping cart now, but by god it was fun to be a passenger in. It squealed at 100+ due to being full of holes probably and generally felt like a death trap but he said the handling was something else.
Nothing much like it now.
)His had leather interior (well, it claimed to be anyway
)They weighed something like 750 kg (may have been even less), and had 85 bhp but it felt like an absolute rocket. The thing would probably get out-dragged by a half decent shopping cart now, but by god it was fun to be a passenger in. It squealed at 100+ due to being full of holes probably and generally felt like a death trap but he said the handling was something else.
Nothing much like it now.
iloveboost said:
s m said:
Also Adam Jam with the new 1 litre turbo - £13500 - most importantly a current offer for £99 insurance for teenagers ( free to over 21 ) - 113bhp/125lb ft torque - 6-speed box - 1063kg ( only a fat person more than a Saxo VTS ) - top speed 121mph
Free/cheap insurance sold a lot of Saxo VTR/VTS'
I can see those being popular with teenagers who want to move on from their first car, and get something with a bit of power. Like you said insurance deals worked for the Citroen Saxo VTR/VTS, and the Adam has a funky interior with nice wheels.Free/cheap insurance sold a lot of Saxo VTR/VTS'
"The 106 Rallye was £10500 in 1997...which is £17,200 in today money thrown in an extra 2.5% Vat between then and now and it's in the same price bracket as the ST and Cooper...but certainly many classes below"
Classes? what do you mean? - there's 20yrs between them, at the time they were top of the small car tree -trying to compare with modern kit is pointless.
I've driven an ST (I don't get it) And owned a cooper, I kept the cooper for 6 months.... I've had my rallye for 5yrs now the longest I have ever owned a car (speaks volumes)
And as for the inflation and insurance costs - I bought a 205gti (1.9) in 1998 at the age of 20 and my insurance was £1400pa 3rd party with a ludicrous excess of £800 And I paid it for 3yrs.... what's that with inflation?
Classes? what do you mean? - there's 20yrs between them, at the time they were top of the small car tree -trying to compare with modern kit is pointless.
I've driven an ST (I don't get it) And owned a cooper, I kept the cooper for 6 months.... I've had my rallye for 5yrs now the longest I have ever owned a car (speaks volumes)
And as for the inflation and insurance costs - I bought a 205gti (1.9) in 1998 at the age of 20 and my insurance was £1400pa 3rd party with a ludicrous excess of £800 And I paid it for 3yrs.... what's that with inflation?
shedweller said:
And as for the inflation and insurance costs - I bought a 205gti (1.9) in 1998 at the age of 20 and my insurance was £1400pa 3rd party with a ludicrous excess of £800 And I paid it for 3yrs.... what's that with inflation?
I guess that's the attraction of the insurance deals - I bought a Saxo VTS in 99 and paid nothing on insurance for 2 yearsMy point is that I don't think current insurance premiums can be used as reasoning in the decline of cars like these, and saying the market doesn't exist anymore.
I live down the road from a college and some of the students drive some hot cars.
I see 18yr old lads in focus STs, fiesta STs and Audi S3 etc all the time - and these are students! The culture of turning 18 and borrowing money or working like he'll to spunk it on fast cars is still very much alive.
Let's face it if I didn't have a mortgage,kids,pension and all that grown up stuff to worry about I would still have car that cost me most if not all of what I earnt\have.
I live down the road from a college and some of the students drive some hot cars.
I see 18yr old lads in focus STs, fiesta STs and Audi S3 etc all the time - and these are students! The culture of turning 18 and borrowing money or working like he'll to spunk it on fast cars is still very much alive.
Let's face it if I didn't have a mortgage,kids,pension and all that grown up stuff to worry about I would still have car that cost me most if not all of what I earnt\have.
shedweller said:
My point is that I don't think current insurance premiums can be used as reasoning in the decline of cars like these, and saying the market doesn't exist anymore.
I live down the road from a college and some of the students drive some hot cars.
I see 18yr old lads in focus STs, fiesta STs and Audi S3 etc all the time - and these are students! The culture of turning 18 and borrowing money or working like he'll to spunk it on fast cars is still very much alive.
Let's face it if I didn't have a mortgage,kids,pension and all that grown up stuff to worry about I would still have car that cost me most if not all of what I earnt\have.
I've had the impression that an Audi A3 is more desirable than a Suzuki Swift Sport to young'uns.I live down the road from a college and some of the students drive some hot cars.
I see 18yr old lads in focus STs, fiesta STs and Audi S3 etc all the time - and these are students! The culture of turning 18 and borrowing money or working like he'll to spunk it on fast cars is still very much alive.
Let's face it if I didn't have a mortgage,kids,pension and all that grown up stuff to worry about I would still have car that cost me most if not all of what I earnt\have.
Kinda sad from us Max Power generation who lusted over Pug GTI's in Dimma bodykit.
But the market has moved on, hot hatches have moved on.
vtecyo said:
Mugen do / did if you're willing to import one from Japan and pay for the privilege.
They only made 350 CR-Z Mugen RZs back in 2013 - and they are out of the budget of pocket-rocket junior hot-hatch buyers at between 20 and 25 grand in Japan, before adding shipping, GST etc. to get one back to the UK.http://kuruma-ex.jp/usedcar/search/result/maker/HO...
JMOld said:
I just bought a Fiesta Red Edition. I have driven and owned a lot of different cars (Seat Leon Cupra R, Golf VR6, Audi TT, Evo 8, Mk5 Golf GT Sport) in my time but this is one of, if not the best handling car I have ever driven. Seems to meet many of the criteria in the article. 140 bhp, near as dammit 1000kg,small capacity engine and cheap insurance, mind you I am 42 but should be far cheaper to insure than an ST for younger drivers. I dismissed fords in the past and was originally looking at a new mini. Test drove it and the vibe I got was definitely 'meh'. Too many bells and whistles and just not exciting enough to drive. The Fiesta is light, has awesome turn in and grips like you wouldn't believe, you can even get lift off oversteer if you fancy. I know there are tons of fiestas about but don't write off this version. It really is a cracker. Should be able to pick one up for £13k or thereabouts with discounts. I do look a bit of an ageing chav in it but I don't care when I am having this much fun.
Looks a good suggestion for 13kNice piece, thanks! And I fully agree. Would love to see hot versions of current entry level cars. There is not much around though.
Polo, Clio, Fiesta etc. moved up one class along the years. Yes there are very nice hot things in that bracket (if you don't mind turbos).
But current 'Pocket' cars that slot underneath above mentioned super minis all miss the 'Rocket' bit. From the makers that used to have something available, e.g. Up, 108, Twingo, Panda, Ka -- nothing. Nothing from the 5+ clones based on those. And nothing from Mazda, Nissan, Toyota, Honda.
The positive list is pretty short.
- Swift Sport might just about qualify. Bit too big and expensive perhaps. Nice bit of kit though.
- FIAT will sell you a 105 PS Twinair in a standard 500.
- The 'premium' stuff, such as the Abarth 500, hot Adam and BMW Cooper Minis is expensive and hence does not count IMO.
Hope I missed something, but I doubt it.
Figure the manufacturers, despite catering to more niches than ever, can't see significant demand. Must be that young drivers don't care anymore. And people that have the funds are happy to shop with the 'premium' brands. Doubt it is insurance, as that is a UK only problem.
A shame really. An Up GT(I) or a Rallye 108, man that would rock. Only upside is that the chaps at Renault Sport might (should) see this as a niche worth going into with a hot Twingo RS.
Polo, Clio, Fiesta etc. moved up one class along the years. Yes there are very nice hot things in that bracket (if you don't mind turbos).
But current 'Pocket' cars that slot underneath above mentioned super minis all miss the 'Rocket' bit. From the makers that used to have something available, e.g. Up, 108, Twingo, Panda, Ka -- nothing. Nothing from the 5+ clones based on those. And nothing from Mazda, Nissan, Toyota, Honda.
The positive list is pretty short.
- Swift Sport might just about qualify. Bit too big and expensive perhaps. Nice bit of kit though.
- FIAT will sell you a 105 PS Twinair in a standard 500.
- The 'premium' stuff, such as the Abarth 500, hot Adam and BMW Cooper Minis is expensive and hence does not count IMO.
Hope I missed something, but I doubt it.
Figure the manufacturers, despite catering to more niches than ever, can't see significant demand. Must be that young drivers don't care anymore. And people that have the funds are happy to shop with the 'premium' brands. Doubt it is insurance, as that is a UK only problem.
A shame really. An Up GT(I) or a Rallye 108, man that would rock. Only upside is that the chaps at Renault Sport might (should) see this as a niche worth going into with a hot Twingo RS.
Edited by Kolbenkopp on Thursday 12th March 01:05
Derek Chevalier said:
currybum said:
Limpet said:
you could still enjoy yourself. The 106 or Saxo were perfectly capable of entertaining you as 1.1 poverty models. The hot versions just added power and grip.
Most small cars today are about as interesting as watching paint dry. Bloated, gutless and idiot proof.
My wife had a 1.1 Saxo when we met, and served a second car until it completely died at 55kmiles.Most small cars today are about as interesting as watching paint dry. Bloated, gutless and idiot proof.
It was without doubt the worst case of automotive apathy and cost cutting I have ever seen, the engine sounded terrible, and drivability was almost non-existent, after 30k miles the engine performance just dropped off of a very low cliff to the point where 60mph was the highest speed you could ever hope to drag out of it.
The handling was woeful, it felt as wallowy as a massive SUV without any of the comfort, under any cornering speed it would just understeer with no warning.
Interior was just as bad, seats were little more that upholstered dining chairs and there was no thought at all as to where the switched might need to be…
It was the result of a design brief of “make it as cheap as possible” with a 20% target stretch added on last minute.
A hateful death trap…why anyone would look back on these with fondness I do not know…it was replaced with a new Fiesta which accounting for inflation was not that much more but was orders of magnitude better in every single way.
Good news is that all the saxo/106’s lest will soon be recycled in to something more useful.
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