RE: What happened to the pocket rocket? PH Blog
Discussion
chriscoates said:
I really hope that this class of car doesn't end up being forgotten about - everyone seems far too obsessed with power and turbos these days to remember that performance is also about weight. I've always loved these types of cars and it probably stemmed from when my dad had a 205 GTI when I was younger.
I've had a Lupo GTI for almost a year now and it's an absolute riot to drive when you push it; in days where electronics control everything it's great to be able to drive something that's a real handful when you put your foot down. Yes they were expensive when new but I can't believe VW haven't made a replacement when you see the way they've held their value; mine is now 12 years old and is still worth a third of it's value when new.
I suppose I'm the exception to the general rule of people my age; even though I'm not 20 yet I'd rather have something older and more analogue-feeling. I love the fact that when VW made the Lupo GTI they were basically saying here's a steering wheel, 3 pedals and 125bhp, have fun
It was the last of the old school VWs: "small + light = fast." Not the "heavily + powerful = fast" school that dominates today. Someone should remind them of the laws of physics...I've had a Lupo GTI for almost a year now and it's an absolute riot to drive when you push it; in days where electronics control everything it's great to be able to drive something that's a real handful when you put your foot down. Yes they were expensive when new but I can't believe VW haven't made a replacement when you see the way they've held their value; mine is now 12 years old and is still worth a third of it's value when new.
I suppose I'm the exception to the general rule of people my age; even though I'm not 20 yet I'd rather have something older and more analogue-feeling. I love the fact that when VW made the Lupo GTI they were basically saying here's a steering wheel, 3 pedals and 125bhp, have fun
BTW, this summer I will have had mine for nine years. Hopeing to make it to ten. I just can't find anything better. And it's not for want of looking...
horst 2b said:
As someone who is looking for the most fun-for-buck hot hatch, I'm more confused than ever ...
I drove the Abarth 500, and think it can be great fun considering it's a piece of garbage in many respects, but there seems to be a consensus that he Fiesta ST is pretty much the hatch to get , for the money, the engine and gearbox, steering and smallish size .
Sorry, Abarth before the Ford every time. But I'm old and remember Abarth from the first time around.I drove the Abarth 500, and think it can be great fun considering it's a piece of garbage in many respects, but there seems to be a consensus that he Fiesta ST is pretty much the hatch to get , for the money, the engine and gearbox, steering and smallish size .
I actually agree with this post.
I understand it may not be suitable for 18 year old's who have just passed their test, but as a 20 year old with two years no claims I am after something small, sporty but not too expensive.
Looking around at what's on offer at the moment I can either go cheap and boring or all out expensive - Something in the middle would be perfect for myself and other people in my situation.
Plus if an 18 year old does like an UP! for example they can buy that one and then upgrade to a sportier model at a later date.
I understand it may not be suitable for 18 year old's who have just passed their test, but as a 20 year old with two years no claims I am after something small, sporty but not too expensive.
Looking around at what's on offer at the moment I can either go cheap and boring or all out expensive - Something in the middle would be perfect for myself and other people in my situation.
Plus if an 18 year old does like an UP! for example they can buy that one and then upgrade to a sportier model at a later date.
JMOld said:
Entirely what Dan said. The Red edition does 90% of what the ST does but if you do the kind of mileage I do (450 a week) choosing the Red edition is a no brainer. I am getting 50mpg on my 80 mile daily commute and can rag it when I want to. There is no way I would get that kind of efficiency out of the ST and even if the ST is a bit quicker I think the Red is a more rounded package for everyday use and occasional hooning.
I haven't driven a red edition, are there much differences from a zetec s apart from the extra power? I've driven a zetec s and it feels like a wallowy sluggish boat in comparison to my MP215. I average about 37-38mpg and I do 20K a year, you won't be getting an average of 50mpg if you rag it at all, my dad runs a zetec s for his work and I've driven it for a week commuting and it gets about 42-43mpg driving the same way as the ST, so I have to disagree.
Monty Python said:
Weight - with all the safety features required they've become too heavy. This means more power is required, which means bigger brakes, which means bigger wheels....it goes on. Until someone comes up with a way to make a small car weigh around a tonne, they'll probably never return.
Suzuki have managed it with the Swift Sport, 1045kg kerb weight 
BeirutTaxi said:
Monty Python said:
Weight - with all the safety features required they've become too heavy. This means more power is required, which means bigger brakes, which means bigger wheels....it goes on. Until someone comes up with a way to make a small car weigh around a tonne, they'll probably never return.
Suzuki have managed it with the Swift Sport, 1045kg kerb weight neil1jnr said:
JMOld said:
Entirely what Dan said. The Red edition does 90% of what the ST does but if you do the kind of mileage I do (450 a week) choosing the Red edition is a no brainer. I am getting 50mpg on my 80 mile daily commute and can rag it when I want to. There is no way I would get that kind of efficiency out of the ST and even if the ST is a bit quicker I think the Red is a more rounded package for everyday use and occasional hooning.
I haven't driven a red edition, are there much differences from a zetec s apart from the extra power? I've driven a zetec s and it feels like a wallowy sluggish boat in comparison to my MP215. I average about 37-38mpg and I do 20K a year, you won't be getting an average of 50mpg if you rag it at all, my dad runs a zetec s for his work and I've driven it for a week commuting and it gets about 42-43mpg driving the same way as the ST, so I have to disagree.
Feel free to disagree. Everyone has their own opinion, likes and dislikes. As far as the economy goes my best weekly commute average is 54mpg calculated on fill ups and with some good old fashioned ragging the worst I have seen is 47mpg. The ST may be a bit sharper to drive and quicker but I don't feel it matches the pocket rocket label due to high insurance and general running costs. My Red only costs 20 quid a year to tax too.
No mention of the Saxo VTS? really? they're the best car in the world!
markeg said:
Totally agree, I had a 205 gti many years ago and now have a Citroën C2 tvs for commuting. Great fun but a bit tinny and loud. Got an Audi A6 Avant 4.2 V8 for weekends and going out with my family. Most people think I'm barking!
I'm with you! E61 M5 for family duties, Standard Saxo VTS for commuting, and a track prepped one for, well, track!Edited by MuZiZZle on Wednesday 22 April 13:22
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