are the scammers getting better?

[hedgefinder]

I enquire via email regarding a car for sale which is in Europe - Finland to be exact... and get no reply... being impatient I call the finish number listed..
and get a reply, but the line is so bad the guy asks me to email him directly.
I do , then recieve a shed load of pictures including a copy of alledged finnish import paperwork with the guys website address etc.
After a few emails back and forth with me offering to get the ferry over in the next couple of days and with him stating that the car is likley to be sold pretty quickly and until a deposit if paid it wont be held...He also calls me via SKype
and texts me - again via skype...
I get far more dubious and start googling to find the cars and bikes he has listed on his website.
Before I get a chance to email again I get an email with a finnish vat registration number for his business and a copy of his finnish driving licence...which would in most cases have calmed most peoples fears
But... after googling the cars and bikes he has listed I find even more to be suspicious of... one of the bikes he has listed as having been recently imported by himself from america was for sale in Poland in 2012, 1 bike was for sale in France last year and the owner sold it to someone in the UK.... all the cars he has listed were sold in the USA 2 years ago - ALL his adverts have the original pictures taken from the ORIGINAL adverts.........
Either the scammers are getting far better than I have ever experienced or I am misudging a totally innocent business owner..

[hedgefinder]

now emails saying that some of the cars listed are for sale on commission on behalf of clients... no further emails since I emailed regardiung the "newly" imported from the usa bike being for sale in Poland in 2012... lol..

[groundcontrol]

Could be legit, but I wouldn't entertain any offers coming from abroad unless I was beyond desperate.

[hedgefinder]

groundcontrol said:

Could be legit, but I wouldn't entertain any offers coming from abroad unless I was beyond desperate.

I have imported a lot of cars and bikes from overseas in the last 20 years and never had an issue.
This one just had something about it that didnt quite ring true..his accent on the phone, using skype, dodgy phone line connections, seeming resistance to me visiting to view his stock...

The really big one that dropped him in it is the fact that he stated that a bike which is a "recent" import was just brought in non running and unrestored by him from the USA, BUT that particular bike was actually imported from the USA unrestored in 2012 by a polish company and they got it running as its actually shown on their website and you tube..

[Russell Mc]

Wasn't a Porsche 356 by any chance?

[hedgefinder]

911e

He even gave me a mobile number for a previous "client" in the uk to act as a reference....unfortunate that this just made me more suspicious as the person who answered wasnt english..... and he was unable to provide any further references..

Edited by hedgefinder on Wednesday 11th March 21:05

[Russell Mc]

Yes same mob I think. Had a 356 advertised at a too good to be true price not long ago

[hedgefinder]

This is the scammers outfit listed below.....




Imports & Restorations
www.imports-and-restorations.com

[e-mail]

Tel: [phone]

00358 823711357

Fax: [phone]

[User33678888]

It's only been running since November, and is registered in the UK.



Domain Name: imports-and-restorations.com
Registry Domain ID: 1887206035_DOMAIN_COM-VRSN
Registrar WHOIS Server: whois.networksolutions.com
Registrar URL: http://www.networksolutions.com/en_US/
Updated Date: 2014-11-25T05:00:00Z
Creation Date: 2014-11-25T20:08:29Z
Registrar Registration Expiration Date: 2015-11-25T05:00:00Z
Registrar: NETWORK SOLUTIONS, LLC.
Registrar IANA ID: 2
Registrar Abuse Contact Email: Email Masking [e-mail]
Registrar Abuse Contact Phone: [phone]
Reseller:
Domain Status: clientTransferProhibited
Registry Registrant ID:
Registrant Name: Joona Otto
Registrant Organization:
Registrant Street: 156 IRCHESTER RD
Registrant City: RUSHDEN
Registrant State/Province: GB-UKM
Registrant Postal Code: NN10 9QU
Registrant Country: GB
Registrant Phone: [phone]
Registrant Phone Ext.:
Registrant Fax:
Registrant Fax Ext.:
Registrant Email: Email Masking [e-mail]
Registry Admin ID:
Admin Name: Joona Otto
Admin Organization:
Admin Street: 156 IRCHESTER RD
Admin City: RUSHDEN
Admin State/Province: GB-UKM
Admin Postal Code: NN10 9QU
Admin Country: GB
Admin Phone: [phone]
Admin Phone Ext.:
Admin Fax:
Admin Fax Ext.:
Admin Email: Email Masking [e-mail]
Registry Tech ID:
Tech Name: Joona Otto
Tech Organization:
Tech Street: 156 IRCHESTER RD
Tech City: RUSHDEN
Tech State/Province: GB-UKM
Tech Postal Code: NN10 9QU
Tech Country: GB
Tech Phone: [phone]
Tech Phone Ext.:
Tech Fax:
Tech Fax Ext.:
Tech Email: Email Masking [e-mail]
Name Server: ns2.wix.com
Name Server: ns1.wix.com
DNSSEC: Unsigned
URL of the ICANN WHOIS Data Problem Reporting System: http://wdprs.internic.net/
>>> Last update of WHOIS database: 2014-11-25T05:00:00Z <<<

[Johnnytheboy]

Something about that website is fishy but I can't quite put my finger on it.

[bigandclever]

Whenever these 'is it a scam site?' questions crop up I tend to do a quick google on some randomly selected bit of blurb. In this case, searching for "Some of the vehicles we have completed restoration work on over the recent past include E-Type Jaguar, Classic MG" brings up British, Greek and this Finnish site. Now maybe they're all legit, and of course people nick copy from other sites all the time, but it gives another avenue to explore for potential dodginess.

[hedgefinder]

well, after reporting one of the ebay listings to ebay as fraudulent 4 times this week and ebay doing absolutely nothing about it I thought I would actually contact ebay and ask why.....

So I logged on to their "chat" and discussed the subject and was then put through to the department that deals with fraudulent listings - the guy was full of apologies and expressed gushing how seriously ebay takes these reports and it would definately be investigated immediately.
I then gave him other ebay items under different ebay user names with the same contact details etc and evidence that the vehicles listed did not belong to the person listing them etc....
That was 48 hours ago and the listings are still happlily scamming away with ebay having done absolutley nothing about them.....I really feel sorry for the people who will undoubtably end up sending this guy money as deposits thinking it is a ligitimate business after being convinced by recieving all the forged paperwork and Id, business vat registration etc...

[ging84]

A scam which is slightly more convincing, does not make it better

There are pretty much 2 ways to do an internet scam, 1 is for it to be completely convincing, enough to fairly convincingly dupe all but the most canny people, which this doesn't sound like
The other way is to target the stupid, with a scam which is so blooming obvious only an idiot wouldn't see thought it, then, you only ever get the attention of idiots who are easily exploited.

if scams are slightly more convincing that would be sign not that scammers are getting better, but that idiots are getting less idiotic

[hedgefinder]

well, if you had found the website whilst looking for restoration projects as I did I pretty sure a number of people would be convinced, as I am a lot more cautious than most when sending money overseas.

Its a half decent website as these things go, not just a single page.
There are landline phone numbers and fax numbers.
It has an actual land addresss in Finland.
The guy will ring you back and or text you also.
It has an email address.
A business bank account to accept payments.
Nothing listed is priced that is POA which initially doesnt put you off with ludicrously low prices.
They have import documentation for each vehicle.
They also have titles or registrations for each vehicle (obviously it must all be forged!)
The guy will send you his Finnish driving licence,
The business is also correctly VAT registered

pretty much everything that a ligitimate business would have in the same market.
Many people buy from overseas without actually viewing vehicles, I have myself bought over 30 cars and bikes without ever travelling.
This is by far the most convincing/comprehensive scam I have seen to date.

[Spence1]

I have been reading this string with interest but unfortunately after the event, I have bought quite a few cars over the years with quite a % over the internet and phone from overseas. All had been good until just recently, having found an advert on ebay for a very poor condition matching numbers etype for restoration being sold by a company called Import and Restorations in Finland. I spoke with the contact many times on the phone(terrible line and broken English) He sent me the import documents when car was imported from USA in February. Customs have since confirmed they are fake although look pretty much identical to the real thing, just had some wrong digits on. We had loads of photos to include all serial numbers, engine and body number, the driving licence of the contact, a web site with land line numbers that you call and they work, they even send you a phone number for a reference you can speak too. With the due diligence complete we sent £16K which was transferred in to a UK high street bank account. They send you a very fancy invoice too off some type of invoice system. We had a very friendly call to say the money had arrived and talked us through the shipping process. Feel very foolish and embarrassed but wanted to tell the story so hopefully I can help someone else not get caught. Classic car fever is taking over from good old common sense, before the internet and web sites you would not dream of sending hard earned cash to someone without seeing and touching, the internet/ web site seems to have given us a warm glowing feeling of comfort. These criminals are playing on that emotion and using the "if you don't pay now someone else will buy it later that day". With the benefit of hindsight I would say I am coming on the next flight, if you could arrange to pick me up from the airport and see what happens!!! if they are a true quality dealer they should respect that and take you seriously especially once you have confirmed flight arrival times. At least if they are not there to pick you up it only cost you the flight. I will never buy again without either seeing myself or having a trusted engineer/ consultant/ main dealer representative going to see the vehicle first.
I wondered could you please tell me if you have the date and details of the report to ebay

[hedgefinder]

Spence1 said:

I have been reading this string with interest but unfortunately after the event, I have bought quite a few cars over the years with quite a % over the internet and phone from overseas. All had been good until just recently, having found an advert on ebay for a very poor condition matching numbers etype for restoration being sold by a company called Import and Restorations in Finland. I spoke with the contact many times on the phone(terrible line and broken English) He sent me the import documents when car was imported from USA in February. Customs have since confirmed they are fake although look pretty much identical to the real thing, just had some wrong digits on. We had loads of photos to include all serial numbers, engine and body number, the driving licence of the contact, a web site with land line numbers that you call and they work, they even send you a phone number for a reference you can speak too. With the due diligence complete we sent £16K which was transferred in to a UK high street bank account. They send you a very fancy invoice too off some type of invoice system. We had a very friendly call to say the money had arrived and talked us through the shipping process. Feel very foolish and embarrassed but wanted to tell the story so hopefully I can help someone else not get caught. Classic car fever is taking over from good old common sense, before the internet and web sites you would not dream of sending hard earned cash to someone without seeing and touching, the internet/ web site seems to have given us a warm glowing feeling of comfort. These criminals are playing on that emotion and using the "if you don't pay now someone else will buy it later that day". With the benefit of hindsight I would say I am coming on the next flight, if you could arrange to pick me up from the airport and see what happens!!! if they are a true quality dealer they should respect that and take you seriously especially once you have confirmed flight arrival times. At least if they are not there to pick you up it only cost you the flight. I will never buy again without either seeing myself or having a trusted engineer/ consultant/ main dealer representative going to see the vehicle first.
I wondered could you please tell me if you have the date and details of the report to ebay

I reported it to ebay customer services without any action being taken, I also discussed it at length via ebay "chat" and was put through to the ebay team that deals with scam listings. Again after legnthy discussion and them being given links to several of that fake company ebay listings under different ebay names with proof of them being ripped off from other sites and I was told that they would investigate and take immediate action.

The listings in question remained for at least another week or 2 and both were ended as SOLD....

I have no doubt that another couple of people were scammed out of several thousand pounds for each vehicle.
I also find it disgusting that ebay took no action regarding these listings, just glad I did look more deply into it before offering to send funds...


The chat session with ebay was on the 13/03/15 at 13.02pm
but was repeatedly reported as a fraudulent listing several times in the 2 weeks before that.
I still have the chat transcript with ebay customer services JOHN RAY and then someone from the team that deals with fruadulent activity named VINEET

[hedgefinder]

A couple of quotes from the transcript.. the fourth one down may be of interest to you as that may well be the jag you thought you had bought that I reported to them also.. ( a 64 e type ?), one of 3 or 4 listings with the same Finland number to contact but with different vehicles that I actually reported.



Vineet 13:14:02
I will now personally reivew this scammers listing and will take appropriate action

Vineet 13:14:13
Please be assured that your report will not be ignored this item.

Vineet 13:14:31
I will personally look into this matter, on the hightest priority.

Vineet 13:20:23
Thanks for bringing this Jaguar car listing to our notice.

Vineet 13:22:11
I can assure you that we will check their related accounts also.

Vineet 13:23:07
Yes, we have observed such scammers on the site.

Edited by hedgefinder on Friday 27th March 18:22

Edited by hedgefinder on Friday 27th March 18:36

[hairyben]

It does look that way. This one so nearly had me:

said:

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PayPal



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Update your account



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[hedgefinder]

[Daunted]

K

Spence1 said:

I have been reading this string with interest but unfortunately after the event, I have bought quite a few cars over the years with quite a % over the internet and phone from overseas. All had been good until just recently, having found an advert on ebay for a very poor condition matching numbers etype for restoration being sold by a company called Import and Restorations in Finland. I spoke with the contact many times on the phone(terrible line and broken English) He sent me the import documents when car was imported from USA in February. Customs have since confirmed they are fake although look pretty much identical to the real thing, just had some wrong digits on. We had loads of photos to include all serial numbers, engine and body number, the driving licence of the contact, a web site with land line numbers that you call and they work, they even send you a phone number for a reference you can speak too. With the due diligence complete we sent £16K which was transferred in to a UK high street bank account. They send you a very fancy invoice too off some type of invoice system. We had a very friendly call to say the money had arrived and talked us through the shipping process. Feel very foolish and embarrassed but wanted to tell the story so hopefully I can help someone else not get caught. Classic car fever is taking over from good old common sense, before the internet and web sites you would not dream of sending hard earned cash to someone without seeing and touching, the internet/ web site seems to have given us a warm glowing feeling of comfort. These criminals are playing on that emotion and using the "if you don't pay now someone else will buy it later that day". With the benefit of hindsight I would say I am coming on the next flight, if you could arrange to pick me up from the airport and see what happens!!! if they are a true quality dealer they should respect that and take you seriously especially once you have confirmed flight arrival times. At least if they are not there to pick you up it only cost you the flight. I will never buy again without either seeing myself or having a trusted engineer/ consultant/ main dealer representative going to see the vehicle first.
I wondered could you please tell me if you have the date and details of the report to ebay

I have just found this website unfortunately I too have also been scammed by these people, saw advert on eBay for Indian Motorcycle (£10,750) rang and spoke to them exactly the same format used.
This took place on 13/3/15 the same day as hedgefinder was in contact with ebay asking them to remove the adverts
Beware if you look on their website which is still active their new contact address and tel no is Hamburg, Germany.
I too have bought and sold vehicles from abroad but was tricked by these fraudsters
I am sharing this hoping it will prevent someone else falling into their trap