RE: Toyota GT86 Aero: Review
Discussion
Measuring torque / tonne is meaningless. This thing called a gearbox tends to affect torque at the wheels otherwise a VAG diesel would almost be the fastest thing on the planet.
Who cares anyway, it'll be plenty fast enough to keep up with most traffic when not on it, and at all other times, it's designed to have it's balls revved off. Can't see the problem.
I WOULD like the Lichfield one though, that sounds epic.
Who cares anyway, it'll be plenty fast enough to keep up with most traffic when not on it, and at all other times, it's designed to have it's balls revved off. Can't see the problem.
I WOULD like the Lichfield one though, that sounds epic.
Alex said:
This is spot on:
It is but it also explains why with Toyota UK the GT86 very much isn't the answer. Their base low cost version, the primo here starts with the chav looking and heavy 17" wheels rather than the 16" wheels a base version should come on. They should take a leaf out of Porsche's history book and come up with a base enthusiast model similar to that sold elsewhere, 16" wheels as few toys as possible, no A/C and a range of simple cheap solid paint colours ala 968 CS. OTR price £19,995 and watch then fly out of the door. Toyota UK is the problem not the fundamentals of the car itself.evo said:
Ask yourself this. What do I really need from a car in order to be able to enjoy it on the road? If the answer is leather seats and a good sound system, then the GT86 isn’t for you.
If however all that matters to you is three pedals, great steering and a sorted chassis, the GT86 is the answer.
If however all that matters to you is three pedals, great steering and a sorted chassis, the GT86 is the answer.
Gary C said:
bp1000 said:
It needs twin turbos at least.
Would ruin the car.I love it as it is, but am seriously considering going FI this year.
I think Subaru and Toyota have made a brilliant car that suits me perfectly - but it'll be three years old this September and I fancy a change. I've so far stiffened it up and replaced the exhaust with a turbo in mind but am beginning to waiver... while the handling has been undeniably sharpened and is great fun on pleasure drives, it's a tad too harsh for daily duties on the terrible roads hereabouts. I'm going back to standard springs soon but keeping the stiffer ARBs and having geo reset.
Anyway, my point is that it's eminently modifiable (is that a word?) so we can all have what we want. For a price you can have north of 300BHP with stock internals.
Its astonishing the amount of vitriol directed towards the GT86/BRZ. I understand it may have been a disappointment to some, but its like everyone in the UK hates it just because thats what you are meant to do. It sells relatively well in other parts of the world but its annoying to have seen the UK market react in this way to a company that has had the nuts to do something other than a hot hatch with a billion horsepowers.
The interior honestly isn't that 3rd world - compared to modern German machinery I can see why people would think this, but its pretty distinctive compared to most other cars, plus the gauge cluster, seats and steering wheel (i.e. the important bits in a car of this ilk) are excellent.
The power thing is what infuriates - people go on about how good the 80s and 90s hot hatches and coupes were, yet they weren't any quicker than a GT86. You could argue that times have moved on, but did anyone think those old hot hatches were slow or more importantly, dull for it? Generally not I expect. Its all become a bit 'willy-waving' these days. Does anyone really need to drive that fast or have so much spare power under foot on public roads to the point that a relatively nippy (yes, definitely not a fast) car like the GT86 is deemed unsatisfying or unacceptable due to its overall lack of power?
If the benchmark of a good sports car these days is whether or not it can rinse a diesel hatchback at the traffic lights then I absolutely despair.
The interior honestly isn't that 3rd world - compared to modern German machinery I can see why people would think this, but its pretty distinctive compared to most other cars, plus the gauge cluster, seats and steering wheel (i.e. the important bits in a car of this ilk) are excellent.
The power thing is what infuriates - people go on about how good the 80s and 90s hot hatches and coupes were, yet they weren't any quicker than a GT86. You could argue that times have moved on, but did anyone think those old hot hatches were slow or more importantly, dull for it? Generally not I expect. Its all become a bit 'willy-waving' these days. Does anyone really need to drive that fast or have so much spare power under foot on public roads to the point that a relatively nippy (yes, definitely not a fast) car like the GT86 is deemed unsatisfying or unacceptable due to its overall lack of power?
If the benchmark of a good sports car these days is whether or not it can rinse a diesel hatchback at the traffic lights then I absolutely despair.
uncler said:
Its astonishing the amount of vitriol directed towards the GT86/BRZ. I understand it may have been a disappointment to some, but its like everyone in the UK hates it just because thats what you are meant to do. It sells relatively well in other parts of the world but its annoying to have seen the UK market react in this way to a company that has had the nuts to do something other than a hot hatch with a billion horsepowers.
The interior honestly isn't that 3rd world - compared to modern German machinery I can see why people would think this, but its pretty distinctive compared to most other cars, plus the gauge cluster, seats and steering wheel (i.e. the important bits in a car of this ilk) are excellent.
The power thing is what infuriates - people go on about how good the 80s and 90s hot hatches and coupes were, yet they weren't any quicker than a GT86. You could argue that times have moved on, but did anyone think those old hot hatches were slow or more importantly, dull for it? Generally not I expect. Its all become a bit 'willy-waving' these days. Does anyone really need to drive that fast or have so much spare power under foot on public roads to the point that a relatively nippy (yes, definitely not a fast) car like the GT86 is deemed unsatisfying or unacceptable due to its overall lack of power?
If the benchmark of a good sports car these days is whether or not it can rinse a diesel hatchback at the traffic lights then I absolutely despair.
New Audi or Mini syndrome ....only the Toyota and Subaru haven't enjoyed the sales success over hereThe interior honestly isn't that 3rd world - compared to modern German machinery I can see why people would think this, but its pretty distinctive compared to most other cars, plus the gauge cluster, seats and steering wheel (i.e. the important bits in a car of this ilk) are excellent.
The power thing is what infuriates - people go on about how good the 80s and 90s hot hatches and coupes were, yet they weren't any quicker than a GT86. You could argue that times have moved on, but did anyone think those old hot hatches were slow or more importantly, dull for it? Generally not I expect. Its all become a bit 'willy-waving' these days. Does anyone really need to drive that fast or have so much spare power under foot on public roads to the point that a relatively nippy (yes, definitely not a fast) car like the GT86 is deemed unsatisfying or unacceptable due to its overall lack of power?
If the benchmark of a good sports car these days is whether or not it can rinse a diesel hatchback at the traffic lights then I absolutely despair.
Scottie - NW said:
I am staggered and had to check this is Pistonheads, where torque matters more than driving experience?
I have four cars, and spend almost every weekend in Snowdonia
You are very fortunate!I have four cars, and spend almost every weekend in Snowdonia
Even amongst car enthusiasts, most people do not appear to seek out good driving experiences (in whatever vehicle). Dual carriageway commuting is the total of their driving.
Dollops of grunt, toys and flashy bits are more important to the vast majority.
Fwiw, though, a bit of flexibility, possibly at the expense of top-end pull does often make for a more pleasant drive.
It may be a poor comparison, but I once drove a 2.2 petrol Alfa Brera and the engine was horrible.
A Subaru 2.0 petrol without forced induction that produces around 200bhp and complies with the EU regulations is actually quite an impressive thing.
0-60 in under 8 seconds isn't slow, but a lot of cars are now quite fast. They are not all raced at 100% on the roads though.
Why worry what other people's cars will do with a good driver on board?
Alex said:
I agree, the UK market is too hung up to appreciate the GT86, but PH shouldn't be.
When all this were fields...It certainly seems that over the past few years it's all about the traffic light grand prix and showing other drivers who's boss. On the whole, the amount of people on Pistonheads who genuinely care about the driving experience are very much in the minority.
Rawwr said:
Alex said:
I agree, the UK market is too hung up to appreciate the GT86, but PH shouldn't be.
When all this were fields...It certainly seems that over the past few years it's all about the traffic light grand prix and showing other drivers who's boss. On the whole, the amount of people on Pistonheads who genuinely care about the driving experience are very much in the minority.
Even the Manta in its last full year of production outsold the GT86/BRZ so I guess tastes have changed towards coupes, no matter how good the handling
Maybe a different engine(s) as an option as with the old 80s cars would give a halo effect/improve sales. Not cheap to do though if there's no confidence of sales success
Edited by s m on Friday 13th March 17:59
Rawwr said:
showing other drivers who's boss.
Which, for most people, in most of their modern driving, means planting their foot and competing for a small gap or by preventing the car in front pulling out when they are trying to overtake a lorry on a dual-carriageway. Much of it is also about perceived image and insecurity.
The potential performance (rather than actually used ground-covering rate) of a vehicle being an indication of the status of the person driving it. Many of the people on here wouldn't
Like the idea that other people's cars might be better at drag racing, even if their car was a fine handling, enjoyable thing.
GT86 is made like a tank, so thats the reason why it weights over 1200 kilos. It has a very rigid body, strong gearbox+diff and engine is bulletproof too. They handle over 400whp very easily and they can be used as a reliable daily driver/race car. So if you are racer/builder kind of guy, these are your number 1 choice. Only 135 can copy somehow, but it has some flaws too.
You have to remember, this car is not for average british car buyer or even average PH forum warrior. This car is for driving loving car enthusiastic people.
You have to remember, this car is not for average british car buyer or even average PH forum warrior. This car is for driving loving car enthusiastic people.
It's amazing how forgiving everyone has been for years to the Caterham / Lotus cars regarding their interiors but won't leave the GT86 / BRZ alone. I know they are different levels of cars, but all are aimed at driving for fun, so you should expect some compromises. Thankfully they didn't compromise on the - to me - important bits.
I think the interior is fine personally, but the driving dynamics are what makes me want one. Having driven both I think they feel perfectly quick, even if the engine does take a bit of thrashing to get the best out of it, which could become tiresome - but the figures don't appear to bear this out.
As the poster above said, keep slagging them off so I can buy one nice and cheap in a year or two!
Pistonheads - the thrill of soft touch interiors.
I think the interior is fine personally, but the driving dynamics are what makes me want one. Having driven both I think they feel perfectly quick, even if the engine does take a bit of thrashing to get the best out of it, which could become tiresome - but the figures don't appear to bear this out.
As the poster above said, keep slagging them off so I can buy one nice and cheap in a year or two!
Pistonheads - the thrill of soft touch interiors.
LasseV said:
GT86 is made like a tank, so thats the reason why it weights over 1200 kilos. It has a very rigid body, strong gearbox+diff and engine is bulletproof too. They handle over 400whp very easily and they can be used as a reliable daily driver/race car. So if you are racer/builder kind of guy, these are your number 1 choice. Only 135 can copy somehow, but it has some flaws too.
You have to remember, this car is not for average british car buyer or even average PH forum warrior. This car is for driving loving car enthusiastic people.
You're completely right, BUT that market is very very small and probably not big enough to sustain the model. The car has to appeal to non-enthusiasts too or it'll never make money and Toyota/Subaru won't bother trying this type of car again.You have to remember, this car is not for average british car buyer or even average PH forum warrior. This car is for driving loving car enthusiastic people.
Best way would be to find SOME way, any way, to get the monthly PCP/rentals down and match the hot hatches. When it's a more expensive car with a reputation for sporty driving that's not actually as good at "sporty" driving in the eyes of Average Joe (i.e. useful low-down torque, basically - as long as it goes around corners OK then they're happy) then it's always going to be an uphill struggle.
The impression I get from Toyota UK having been looking into a new one lately is that it's still seen very much as a halo product and isn't afforded the discounts and low APRs that the hatchbacks are. The problem is that it doesn't have the clout to back up that position.
However, if the factory is working to capacity already supplying the US and Japan, then more power to them I suppose.
These sort of threads always amuse me for how so many will keep trying to defend the thing, blame the public, blame enthusiasts all the time while ignoring the simple inescapable truth. Its just too expensive in the UK.
There was a thread recently about the deals available on them and sure enough I searched around and found a primo could be bought for about 20 grand. Fine except for the fact that mega deals have been available in recent years to get MX5s cheap and across to front engined I know a guy who got a Fiesta ST2 for 14 something. This isn't even going into the PCP and lease deal world which is where many get new cars from these days and where the finance on the GT86 is laughable.
As for the fun down a country b road, the only problem with that argument is that so many have got used to small FWD cars over the years, the mythology around RWD just isn't as strong any more. Is a GT86 going to be twice as much fun down a b road as a Suzuki Swift? I doubt it but its twice the price.
There was a thread recently about the deals available on them and sure enough I searched around and found a primo could be bought for about 20 grand. Fine except for the fact that mega deals have been available in recent years to get MX5s cheap and across to front engined I know a guy who got a Fiesta ST2 for 14 something. This isn't even going into the PCP and lease deal world which is where many get new cars from these days and where the finance on the GT86 is laughable.
As for the fun down a country b road, the only problem with that argument is that so many have got used to small FWD cars over the years, the mythology around RWD just isn't as strong any more. Is a GT86 going to be twice as much fun down a b road as a Suzuki Swift? I doubt it but its twice the price.
NJH said:
These sort of threads always amuse me for how so many will keep trying to defend the thing, blame the public, blame enthusiasts all the time while ignoring the simple inescapable truth. Its just too expensive in the UK.
Makes me laugh too. All the apologists trying to defend it. It's way too expensive for what it is, and it's nowhere near being the 'great drive' it's meant to be. There is a reason why no-one is buying it, it's because it's not very good..Gassing Station | General Gassing | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff