The End of Diesels is here... FT article

[kambites]

scarble said:

What's too complex to understand?

The relationship between atmospheric carbon dioxide and global temperatures; the relationship between global temperatures and global sea-levels; the effect of various particulate and gaseous emissions on the human body; and all sorts of other things which are hugely important in the overall debate.

I disagree with your premise that a lot of scientists are buying into the propaganda, too. As a general rule, they are paid to conduct particular research and they do so clearly stating the limitations and assumptions of their work - every paper I've read on global warming has clearly stated everything required to understand the scope of the work. The problem is what happens when the various lobbyists (on both sides of he fence) and politicians get their hands on that work.

[lufbramatt]

Fastdruid said:

VED should be based on weight/size.

Something like:

Sub 500 Kg - free
501-750 Kg - £25
751-1000 Kg - £50
1001-1125Kg - £75
1126-1250Kg - £100
1251-1375Kg - £125
1375-1500Kg - £150
1501-2000Kg - £200
2001+ Kg - £500

CO2/pollution tax should be added to fuel.

Should include driver weight too, then it would help the obesity problem ;-)

[scarble]

kambites said:

I disagree with your premise that a lot of scientists are buying into the propaganda, too. As a general rule, they are paid to conduct particular research and they do so clearly stating the limitations and assumptions of their work - every paper I've read on global warming has clearly stated everything required to understand the scope of the work. The problem is what happens when the various lobbyists (on both sides of he fence) and politicians get their hands on that work.

I meant non-climate scientists, like particle physicists and materials scientists and er.. nanoscientists?

Edited by scarble on Thursday 19th March 12:03

[zeppelin101]

lbc said:

A study, conducted by the German TUEV Nord in November 2013 and published by the Brussels-based environmental lobby group Transport & Environment, says that new direct-injection petrol engines emit 1,000 times more particles than their predecessors and 10 times more than modern diesel engines.

Your last point about number of particles emitted was a bit of a misnomer as they were comparing a DPF equipped diesel to a non filtered gasoline engine, if it's the study I remember reading not so long back.

IIRC, the point of the article was to drive a commitment to fitting GPFs on gasoline engines - but under current legislation, most engines don't need them to hit the emissions targets with room to spare. The only market that won't be true is China where they have formulated very stringent emissions regs under Beijing VI.

Rightly or wrongly, the manufacturers are only required to robustly meet the emissions regulations across the board - not the same as making the lowest polluting engine possible.

Edited by zeppelin101 on Thursday 19th March 12:04

[kambites]

Oh, I see what you mean now. I haven't noticed that at all myself.

[BGarside]

GadgeS3C said:

Also in the news today:


Most of this planet saving stuff just seemed a confused mess...

It's possibly because the true priority is preserving or increasing tax revenues, not minimising environmental impact.

Everything and everyone in the UK is driven by money and the environment is not a priority, beyond the concern of politicians to be seen to be saying the right things - just the usual 'greenwash'.

[scarble]

I have
But I agree that the climate science its self is an extremely complex system, it's more the automotive side that ain't, we understand it fairly well ta very much
The challenge is not in the understanding but in the applying, as actuators get ever more precise and systems ever more complex and you start having to measure and compensate for ageing effects of every little component.

[Andehh]

For comparison, it would take 42 million Euro 6 diesel cars to produce the same emissions as a single coal-fired power station

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/newsbysector/tr...

Quick, ban all diesels immediately..

[GadgeS3C]

BGarside said:

GadgeS3C said:

Also in the news today:


Most of this planet saving stuff just seemed a confused mess...

It's possibly because the true priority is preserving or increasing tax revenues, not minimising environmental impact.

Everything and everyone in the UK is driven by money and the environment is not a priority, beyond the concern of politicians to be seen to be saying the right things - just the usual 'greenwash'.

That deserves another

[schmunk]

Jimboka said:

£30 ved & 55+ mpg from my Diesel, Superb!

[Andehh]

GadgeS3C said:

BGarside said:

GadgeS3C said:

Also in the news today:


Most of this planet saving stuff just seemed a confused mess...

It's possibly because the true priority is preserving or increasing tax revenues, not minimising environmental impact.

Everything and everyone in the UK is driven by money and the environment is not a priority, beyond the concern of politicians to be seen to be saying the right things - just the usual 'greenwash'.

That deserves another

and another very accurate. They know anything done for 'green' reasons will keep the stupid general population (Guardian readers especially) happy & raise monies required. Win...win..

[AC43]

kambites said:

I think we'll see non-euro 6 compliant private passenger DERVs banned from London at some point relatively soon.

I sincerely hope so.

EDIT; and no, I don't read the Guardian.

[Blanchie]

meh...I'm going to remap my diesel tank for more power and more diesel stink! poowwwrrrr

Dread to think how much crap the "coal rollers" in the states put out! mind

[SuperHangOn]

They've forced most drivers into high mpg diesels with various taxes - now they suddenly look for excuses to tax it. WHo could have guessed?

We really shouldn't be encouraging the buggers because it's inevitable that we'll all get hit whatever we drive (remember the anti 4x4 hysteria a few years back?)

[scarble]

Andehh said:

For comparison, it would take 42 million Euro 6 diesel cars to produce the same emissions as a single coal-fired power station
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/newsbysector/tr...
Quick, ban all diesels immediately..

hm ok, but that's a claim from an industry lobbying group with no background and no unbiased review and that single sentence statement grossly oversimplifies the case, it is attention grabbing sensational bullpoop and exactly the kind of underhand nonscience that should be villified, it doesn't say anything about distance travelled or driving conditions or for that matter the operation of the power plant and it doesn't add anything to the debate.
What can be said is that SCR has been in use in the power industry for a long time now and cars are just catching up, though the practicality of it is tbc.

On top of all that the number of people who regularly walk around near power plants inhaling their fumes is a lot less than the number of people who have no choice but to live around cars. Does no one else feel the burn in their sinuses if they walk about during rush hour? Sometimes it even makes my nose run and I hate to think what it's doing to my lungs and heart.
But maybe we should be looking more closely at power generation too.

[lbc]

SuperHangOn said:

They've forced most drivers into high mpg diesels with various taxes - now they suddenly look for excuses to tax it. WHo could have guessed?

The same will eventually happen when enough motorists switch to electric cars.

The best plan is to stick with pre-2006 cars.

[Lil'RedGTO]

I was less surprised by the suggestion that diesels are about to be progressively regulated/taxed off the roads than I was by the revelation that 81% of BMW sales in Europe are diesels. I could have guessed it was high, but not that high! No wonder BMW and the SMMT are trying a pro-diesel public relations fightback.

[lbc]

scarble said:

Does no one else feel the burn in their sinuses if they walk about during rush hour? Sometimes it even makes my nose run and I hate to think what it's doing to my lungs and heart.

Fumes from petrol engines smell really bad, but I have never noticed diesels to smell or irritate.

[Dr Jekyll]

scarble said:

On top of all that the number of people who regularly walk around near power plants inhaling their fumes is a lot less than the number of people who have no choice but to live around cars. Does no one else feel the burn in their sinuses if they walk about during rush hour? Sometimes it even makes my nose run and I hate to think what it's doing to my lungs and heart.

Just because you can smell something doesn't mean it causes health problems. London's air is cleaner than it's been for centuries and still getting better, anyone healthy enough to walk about has nothing to worry about.

[Fastdruid]

lbc said:

scarble said:

Does no one else feel the burn in their sinuses if they walk about during rush hour? Sometimes it even makes my nose run and I hate to think what it's doing to my lungs and heart.

Fumes from petrol engines smell really bad, but I have never noticed diesels to smell or irritate.

Go see a doctor, you've lost your sense of smell.

HTH