RE: Lotus Elise 20th Anniversary launched

[otolith]

Leggy said:

otolith said:

windy1 said:

Performance through light weight I thought used to be their motto.
It's a shame, with the advancement in lightweight materials & taking the unneccessary fat off structures by design simulation, the current elise isn't much lighter than the series 1 car. It should be at least 200kg lighter by now I'd have thought.

The current car is heavier than it should be, but expectations have changed - it's less unrefined and safer than the original car. I'd like to see Lotus take a chunk of weight out of it. I'm sure there are savings that could be made, for example the aftermarket exhaust I fitted to my 111R gave the impression the original equipment part was carved out of lead!

There ain't much to take outgo make any substantial weight savings. Unless you use more exotic materials.

Lotus have recently had all the bits of their cars laid out on tables to see where weight can be saved. They took a chunk of unnecessary mass out of the Evora, I'm sure there are things that could be done better with the Elise. Whether it can be done without adding cost is another question.

[parsot]

It's true that in today's money a 1996 Elise would be about £31,700 but average salaries have not kept pace with inflation, there about 10% behind so it real-world terms the Elise is more expensive... the equivalent would be about £27500....

[Tickle]

I like it, although I think it should of come with proper wind down windows as an option if it's a homage to the original.

[ant leigh]

kambites said:

How does it manage to be only 10kg lighter when the air-con alone is significantly more than that?

The standard weight is also without aircon. It's confusingly worded.

[MarshPhantom]

SidewaysSi said:

otolith said:

Predictably amusing comments on price - 1996 S1 Elise was £18,950. Inflation adjusted that's £31,786. Current entry level Elise is £30,900.

They were never cheap.

Exactly. As good value as the original.

But my Mercedes costs pretty much the same today as it did in 1990.

[cheddar]

Leggy said:

otolith said:

windy1 said:

Performance through light weight I thought used to be their motto.
It's a shame, with the advancement in lightweight materials & taking the unneccessary fat off structures by design simulation, the current elise isn't much lighter than the series 1 car. It should be at least 200kg lighter by now I'd have thought.

The current car is heavier than it should be, but expectations have changed - it's less unrefined and safer than the original car. I'd like to see Lotus take a chunk of weight out of it. I'm sure there are savings that could be made, for example the aftermarket exhaust I fitted to my 111R gave the impression the original equipment part was carved out of lead!

There ain't much to take outgo make any substantial weight savings. Unless you use more exotic materials.

That's what Mazda have done with the new MX5 and it's shed over 100kgs over its predecessor, wet weight, including radio and air-con, is now quoted at 998kgs.

Easier to achieve when Mazda shift 30,000 MX5's each year to Lotus's 270 Elise.

[Dick Seaman]

parsot said:

It's true that in today's money a 1996 Elise would be about £31,700 but average salaries have not kept pace with inflation, there about 10% behind so it real-world terms the Elise is more expensive... the equivalent would be about £27500....

Interesting numbers, and partly explains many of the 'Price LOL' comments that proliferate any Lotus thread.

[chandrew]

Don't bother with the stereo - you can't hear it anyway. I made the mistake of not putting in the aircon thinking I'd have the roof off when it was warm enough. Didn't realise how tiring the wind noise was at motorway speeds.

For a weekend car they're great. I'm not sure how many people on median salaries buy a new sports car just for the weekend. I suspect most new buyers haven't had real salary decreases.

[Oddball RS]

otolith said:

Predictably amusing comments on price - 1996 S1 Elise was £18,950. Inflation adjusted that's £31,786. Current entry level Elise is £30,900.

They were never cheap.

I know what you mean, mind you they weren't always 20 years old were they.......................

[anonymous-user]

PH said:

Handily as well it still returns nearly 40mpg and 173g/km on the official cycle.

Hopeless. Have a look at the Co2 of some modern cars as a comparison!

[moribund]

parsot said:

It's true that in today's money a 1996 Elise would be about £31,700 but average salaries have not kept pace with inflation, there about 10% behind so it real-world terms the Elise is more expensive... the equivalent would be about £27500....

...Which is about the price of the entry level Elise today. The car above is a 220bhp supercharged one.

[RYH64E]

H

otolith said:

£37,200 for the basic supercharged car, I suppose whether the special edition is worth the extra depends whether you would have specced the extra equipment or not - and whether 37k for the S is worth the money depends on your priorities. If you want a faster sports car you would either have to stump up quite a bit more money or make some more sacrifices on the practicality side. You could certainly have a slower sports car with more luxury for that much.

By the time you add the touring pack, aircon, hardtop and metallic paint the price is fairly well north of £43k, for which you could buy two MX5s. You need to be an enthusiast to choose the Lotus.

[bencollins]

Max_Torque said:

PH said:

Handily as well it still returns nearly 40mpg and 173g/km on the official cycle.

Hopeless. Have a look at the Co2 of some modern cars as a comparison!

and 4.6 seconds to 62mph and 145mph - please give examples o wise one.

[Europa1]

I'd like to live on the same planet as the posters on here who wistfully say the Elise used to cost sub-£20k and seem to think it still should.

Yes, that was 20 years ago.

I am guessing these people must have massive disposable income because presumably in their world petrol should still cost what it did 2 decades ago, along with other costs like gas, electricity, trifling things like food...

[MJK 24]

parsot said:

It's true that in today's money a 1996 Elise would be about £31,700 but average salaries have not kept pace with inflation, there about 10% behind so it real-world terms the Elise is more expensive... the equivalent would be about £27500....

How on earth is the drop in the UK average salary something that Lotus can do anything about?!

Someone on one of the Lotus forums bought a brand new unregistered Elise for £26,000 a few months ago so in effect, much cheaper than the original car.

[jcl]

Too heavy. I'd buy an old one.

[cheddar]

MJK 24 said:

Someone on one of the Lotus forums bought a brand new unregistered Elise for £26,000 a few months ago so in effect, much cheaper than the original car.

That's a quantifiable number - at £40,000 plus options it gets really hard to justify, hence the low sales figures.

Edited by cheddar on Thursday 19th March 22:53

[Matt UK]

S1 looks so good they could launch it today.

[windy1]

cheddar said:

Leggy said:

otolith said:

windy1 said:

Performance through light weight I thought used to be their motto.
It's a shame, with the advancement in lightweight materials & taking the unneccessary fat off structures by design simulation, the current elise isn't much lighter than the series 1 car. It should be at least 200kg lighter by now I'd have thought.

The current car is heavier than it should be, but expectations have changed - it's less unrefined and safer than the original car. I'd like to see Lotus take a chunk of weight out of it. I'm sure there are savings that could be made, for example the aftermarket exhaust I fitted to my 111R gave the impression the original equipment part was carved out of lead!

There ain't much to take outgo make any substantial weight savings. Unless you use more exotic materials.

That's what Mazda have done with the new MX5 and it's shed over 100kgs over its predecessor, wet weight, including radio and air-con, is now quoted at 998kgs.

Easier to achieve when Mazda shift 30,000 MX5's each year to Lotus's 270 Elise.

If you really look closely at the elise there are lots of things that have added weight to it over the years. Take the extruded aluminium uprights and aluminium metal matrix discs fitted to the S1 - done away with and replaced with cast iron discs and steel uprights on the later cars. The exhaust backbox is huge and heavy. It doesn't need to be. There's a mass of bolts on the thing that could have 10 to 20 mm cut off the ends of the threads to save weight. Stainless steel fixings and washers everywhere on the undertrays and body panels. Steel housings for airbags and pretensioners, electric motors in the windows, brackets for ABS pumps. Fluid lines the whole length of the car carrying a huge weight of oil, coolant for the engine and charge cooler system, A/C refrigerant etc. You could do a lot on the car with cheap composites, plastics and extrusions, aluminium fasteners etc. A lot of this could be achieved with a bit more thought, the things that should matter to Lotus.

[cheddar]

windy1 said:

If you really look closely at the elise there are lots of things that have added weight to it over the years. Take the extruded aluminium uprights and aluminium metal matrix discs fitted to the S1 - done away with and replaced with cast iron discs and steel uprights on the later cars. The exhaust backbox is huge and heavy. It doesn't need to be. There's a mass of bolts on the thing that could have 10 to 20 mm cut off the ends of the threads to save weight. Stainless steel fixings and washers everywhere on the undertrays and body panels. Steel housings for airbags and pretensioners, electric motors in the windows, brackets for ABS pumps. Fluid lines the whole length of the car carrying a huge weight of oil, coolant for the engine and charge cooler system, A/C refrigerant etc. You could do a lot on the car with cheap composites, plastics and extrusions, aluminium fasteners etc. A lot of this could be achieved with a bit more thought, the things that should matter to Lotus.

Agreed.

Mazda's engineers laid out every single component and studied each one to evaluate where weight could be saved.

A costly exercise in reengineering I imagine and one that 'shoestring' Lotus simply can't afford.