RE: Lotus Elise 20th Anniversary launched
Discussion
It's misleading to take a general figure for inflation and apply that to a single product. For one, some classes of consumption, namely services, have become much more expensive whereas manufactured goods have become much cheaper over time. It would be more relevant to compare how various metrics on prices of cars (average, median, whatever but even that is not a perfect measure) have changed over time and compare that with Lotus pricing.
Taking such a straightforward application of CPI to the extreme, you'd expect tech products to become more expensive while offering rather stale specs. Clearly there needs to be far more subtlety to make sense of any such trend.
Taking such a straightforward application of CPI to the extreme, you'd expect tech products to become more expensive while offering rather stale specs. Clearly there needs to be far more subtlety to make sense of any such trend.
MarshPhantom said:
SidewaysSi said:
otolith said:
Predictably amusing comments on price - 1996 S1 Elise was £18,950. Inflation adjusted that's £31,786. Current entry level Elise is £30,900.
They were never cheap.
Exactly. As good value as the original.They were never cheap.
cheddar said:
windy1 said:
If you really look closely at the elise there are lots of things that have added weight to it over the years. Take the extruded aluminium uprights and aluminium metal matrix discs fitted to the S1 - done away with and replaced with cast iron discs and steel uprights on the later cars. The exhaust backbox is huge and heavy. It doesn't need to be. There's a mass of bolts on the thing that could have 10 to 20 mm cut off the ends of the threads to save weight. Stainless steel fixings and washers everywhere on the undertrays and body panels. Steel housings for airbags and pretensioners, electric motors in the windows, brackets for ABS pumps. Fluid lines the whole length of the car carrying a huge weight of oil, coolant for the engine and charge cooler system, A/C refrigerant etc. You could do a lot on the car with cheap composites, plastics and extrusions, aluminium fasteners etc. A lot of this could be achieved with a bit more thought, the things that should matter to Lotus.
Agreed.Mazda's engineers laid out every single component and studied each one to evaluate where weight could be saved.
A costly exercise in reengineering I imagine and one that 'shoestring' Lotus simply can't afford.
RYH64E said:
By the time you add the touring pack, aircon, hardtop and metallic paint the price is fairly well north of £43k, for which you could buy two MX5s. You need to be an enthusiast to choose the Lotus.
Absolutely. That's who they're for. It's questionable whether that niche is big enough to support them, but then there are loads of cars which aren't for enthusiasts - if Lotus has to join them, who cares whether they stay in business?cheddar said:
Agreed.
Mazda's engineers laid out every single component and studied each one to evaluate where weight could be saved.
A costly exercise in reengineering I imagine and one that 'shoestring' Lotus simply can't afford.
They have recently attempted just such an exercise - they're heading the right way.Mazda's engineers laid out every single component and studied each one to evaluate where weight could be saved.
A costly exercise in reengineering I imagine and one that 'shoestring' Lotus simply can't afford.
otolith said:
RYH64E said:
By the time you add the touring pack, aircon, hardtop and metallic paint the price is fairly well north of £43k, for which you could buy two MX5s. You need to be an enthusiast to choose the Lotus.
Absolutely. That's who they're for. It's questionable whether that niche is big enough to support them, but then there are loads of cars which aren't for enthusiasts - if Lotus has to join them, who cares whether they stay in business?and why would anyone want two identical cars
bencollins said:
otolith said:
RYH64E said:
By the time you add the touring pack, aircon, hardtop and metallic paint the price is fairly well north of £43k, for which you could buy two MX5s. You need to be an enthusiast to choose the Lotus.
Absolutely. That's who they're for. It's questionable whether that niche is big enough to support them, but then there are loads of cars which aren't for enthusiasts - if Lotus has to join them, who cares whether they stay in business?and why would anyone want two identical cars
I had an S1 for many years and now have a new Elise S, the new car may be heavier than the original but it's a much more practical car to live with on a daily basis. It probably isn't great value for money but it is a great car, and Lotus doesn't need to sell hundreds of thousands of them every year, just a few thousand of each variant per year would be more than enough, the worldwide market should be big enough for that surely?
Golfmadeasy said:
Vastly overpriced cars in comparison to competition. I would like 1 but over the last 10 yrs always bought Boxster S and TTS. If lotus were a little bit more humble with their RRP ide have bought several, that's why Lotus are again losing millions.
I'm sorry old bean, but looking at the cars you mention, well, you're just not the Right Stuff for a Lotus.Golfmadeasy said:
Vastly overpriced cars in comparison to competition. I would like 1 but over the last 10 yrs always bought Boxster S and TTS. If lotus were a little bit more humble with their RRP ide have bought several, that's why Lotus are again losing millions.
I've had a TT-S and a couple of Elises, and they're completely different cars. The TT-S was a daily driver and perfectly adequate for everyday use. The Elise is a car that only comes out of the garage when the sun's shining, it's a weekend toy not an everyday car. Some people have an E Type in their garage, some have an old Bentley, some have a new Ferrari or maybe a Lamborghini, I have an Elise on the basis that it's cheaper than the aforementioned classics, more reliable and much more fun. But it's the same type of car, an indulgence rather than a practical daily driver.
If you ever have a tour around the Lotus factory you will understand reason for the pricing, they're mostly hand built and individually fettled, which isn't cheap. There's no comparison between the way that Lotus build cars and the way that Mazda, Ford, Honda, Toyota etc build cars, the big manufacturers have reduced the labour content to a minimum, Lotus haven't and couldn't justify the capital investment on the number of cars they're ever likely to produce. TVR had the same problem, they could sell a lot of cars for £30k, unfortunately it cost them more than that to make one...
Ed Straker said:
Golfmadeasy said:
Vastly overpriced cars in comparison to competition. I would like 1 but over the last 10 yrs always bought Boxster S and TTS. If lotus were a little bit more humble with their RRP ide have bought several, that's why Lotus are again losing millions.
I'm sorry old bean, but looking at the cars you mention, well, you're just not the Right Stuff for a Lotus.Golfmadeasy said:
Vastly overpriced cars in comparison to competition. I would like 1 but over the last 10 yrs always bought Boxster S and TTS. If lotus were a little bit more humble with their RRP ide have bought several, that's why Lotus are again losing millions.
You'd have saved a fortune if you'd have bought Lotus as they retain their value like virtually nothing else. A Boxster and TT depreciate heavily from day one.Speaking as someone who owns an S Club Racer, I'd be interested in knowing how this edition is different. What suspension does it use? And for the record, with the niceties added back, a soft top, and a hard top, mine was still some way below £40k. I suspect the anniversary version will be the same.
Golfmadeasy said:
Vastly overpriced cars in comparison to competition. I would like 1 but over the last 10 yrs always bought Boxster S and TTS. If lotus were a little bit more humble with their RRP ide have bought several, that's why Lotus are again losing millions.
Yes, why indeed buy an Elise when you can have something similar like a TT 
gm77 said:
Speaking as someone who owns an S Club Racer, I'd be interested in knowing how this edition is different. What suspension does it use? And for the record, with the niceties added back, a soft top, and a hard top, mine was still some way below £40k. I suspect the anniversary version will be the same.
I didn't get the sports pack or the forged alloys and my Elise S still cost >£43k.SidewaysSi said:
MarshPhantom said:
SidewaysSi said:
otolith said:
Predictably amusing comments on price - 1996 S1 Elise was £18,950. Inflation adjusted that's £31,786. Current entry level Elise is £30,900.
They were never cheap.
Exactly. As good value as the original.They were never cheap.
Strange post.
RYH64E said:
gm77 said:
Speaking as someone who owns an S Club Racer, I'd be interested in knowing how this edition is different. What suspension does it use? And for the record, with the niceties added back, a soft top, and a hard top, mine was still some way below £40k. I suspect the anniversary version will be the same.
I didn't get the sports pack or the forged alloys and my Elise S still cost >£43k.parsot said:
It's true that in today's money a 1996 Elise would be about £31,700 but average salaries have not kept pace with inflation, there about 10% behind so it real-world terms the Elise is more expensive... the equivalent would be about £27500....
You can buy one for a little less than that today with some haggling.Gassing Station | General Gassing | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff