RE: Fisher Fury: PH Carpool
Discussion
ghibbett said:
Fury1630 said:
Or get a car that's cheaper to build, lighter, handles better & has a curved screen.
Simpler!
I'm not saying a Caterham is better - each to their own and all that - but merely commenting that to state a Caterham is impossible to breathe in above 50mph is mis-representative.Simpler!
The car was 590Kg at SVA with a full tank, a few tools, a camera, lunch etc, but with the mods may be a little heavier by now (engine change + 5Kg - brake change -8Kg, that sort of thing), it'd be a lot lighter (about 8Kg) if I swapped the Pug wheels for something lighter - one day maybe.
Good call.
My dad's got a Stylus and although I'm afraid I am (or rather was) one of those Caterham owners, I can see the appeal of a similar, lightweight chassis with better aerodynamics and improved weather protection. Great looking cars too.
For what it's worth, the Sylva Leader I owned previously had a half-height flat screen and the turbulence from that would blow your sunglasses off at anything over 50 mph. Even the Caterham with a full height screen was pretty bad for dust and debris swirling into the cockpit.
My dad's got a Stylus and although I'm afraid I am (or rather was) one of those Caterham owners, I can see the appeal of a similar, lightweight chassis with better aerodynamics and improved weather protection. Great looking cars too.
For what it's worth, the Sylva Leader I owned previously had a half-height flat screen and the turbulence from that would blow your sunglasses off at anything over 50 mph. Even the Caterham with a full height screen was pretty bad for dust and debris swirling into the cockpit.
Great to hear that someone is still having as much fun with kit cars as I have been doing for the last 60 odd years. That looks an excellent build and the finish of the car, the performance and the handling qualities speak for themselves. As the owner says no production car could come near these lightweight specials on the cicuits or on the road. Well done indeed!
astra la vista said:
i thought i'd seen this car before and when i read the article i knew i had ("...Guildford to Lands End and back in a day").
i see this in mytchett on my way to work some mornings. it's no garage queen. brilliant stuff.
Yep, that was it. Not so much these days though as I'm working further away so I'm in a car-share & the Fury's not so popular with the other three guys i see this in mytchett on my way to work some mornings. it's no garage queen. brilliant stuff.
This is my Fury with a Le Mans bonnet. I exported it to New Zealand a couple of years ago. I still haven't managed to register it yet because life has gotten in the way. I was half way through an engine swap in the UK when I decided I was moving for good, so it was loaded onto a container barely drivable and held together with string and tape. I thought they were going to send a flat bed to pick it up, so I was quite surprised when a full-length car transporter turned up just for my little go-kart size car! It only had one other car on it.
This is where it's currently sitting. The garage has a Focus with a borked engine stuffed in, so space is tight and the Fury has been put on hold (again!). The garage has been tidied up and I've moved my lathe in since this photo was taken.
I bought it in 2010 with a 1700 cc Crossflow. With only 110bhp I could keep up with a (at the time) new Porsche Boxster in a straight line. The Duratec it now has should be making 180-190 bhp.
Bringing it over to New Zealand, there were quite a few things that needed changing and the registration process is pretty technical and involved. Unfortunately, no one I spoke to knew much about registering it on the basis that it was already on the road in the UK, so the advice was that it would be easier to go through the LVVTA approval (equivalent to IVA). While making some of the changes I found a lot of problems with the car and it's pretty much turned into a full rebuild. New suspension bushings. Stripped, de-rusted, and repainted chassis. Seats mounted to the floor. Roll bar remade. Etc... Etc... If I was buying a Fury specifically to bring to New Zealand I would have picked a much better example. But that wasn't even on my mind when I first bought it.
I actually have a new chassis and another set of body panels in storage. Once I get the black one on the road, I'll start building the new one. All the work I've done on the current one has given me ideas on how to tackle and improve the next one.
I know of only two others in New Zealand. One was not registered for the road last I heard, and the other one is in Wellington. Club meetings might be a bit awkward...
This is where it's currently sitting. The garage has a Focus with a borked engine stuffed in, so space is tight and the Fury has been put on hold (again!). The garage has been tidied up and I've moved my lathe in since this photo was taken.
I bought it in 2010 with a 1700 cc Crossflow. With only 110bhp I could keep up with a (at the time) new Porsche Boxster in a straight line. The Duratec it now has should be making 180-190 bhp.
Bringing it over to New Zealand, there were quite a few things that needed changing and the registration process is pretty technical and involved. Unfortunately, no one I spoke to knew much about registering it on the basis that it was already on the road in the UK, so the advice was that it would be easier to go through the LVVTA approval (equivalent to IVA). While making some of the changes I found a lot of problems with the car and it's pretty much turned into a full rebuild. New suspension bushings. Stripped, de-rusted, and repainted chassis. Seats mounted to the floor. Roll bar remade. Etc... Etc... If I was buying a Fury specifically to bring to New Zealand I would have picked a much better example. But that wasn't even on my mind when I first bought it.
I actually have a new chassis and another set of body panels in storage. Once I get the black one on the road, I'll start building the new one. All the work I've done on the current one has given me ideas on how to tackle and improve the next one.
I know of only two others in New Zealand. One was not registered for the road last I heard, and the other one is in Wellington. Club meetings might be a bit awkward...
How have I missed these?! What a fantastic little car. Had a quick look at the classifieds and turned this up
http://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds/used-cars/k...
What's not to like about that!
http://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds/used-cars/k...
What's not to like about that!
Gorbyrev said:
How have I missed these?! What a fantastic little car. Had a quick look at the classifieds and turned this up
http://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds/used-cars/k...
What's not to like about that!
Indeed.http://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds/used-cars/k...
What's not to like about that!
I think that the Fischer Fury is based on an original Jeremy Phillips design? In which case it will almost certainly handle exceptionally well, because Phillips designs are generally excellent driving cars. I think he is retred now but no doubt still has an interest in kit cars. Superb small, good looking car IMO. Different and nicely set up. Well worth a look I think.
It is indeed a Jeremy Phillips design, being essentially the Sylva Phoenix with very slightly different bodywork and starting life as a build supplied by Mark Fisher - hence the name. The chassis/suspension is very well sorted and resulting handling is sublime, regardless of whether IRS or live-axle variants.
Like all such small light adjustable cars, such things are also easily tweaked & set-up to exactly match your preference, but the out-of-the-box suggested settings are a solid start. After you've got used to it many find that the standard recommended spring rates are a tad soft (though good for road use at 180lb front / 120lb rear), but it's easy to change that around - 225 front and 180 rear is the popular recommendation; mine was set-up slightly stiffer still and the result is stonking - so I've kept it that way.
Like all such small light adjustable cars, such things are also easily tweaked & set-up to exactly match your preference, but the out-of-the-box suggested settings are a solid start. After you've got used to it many find that the standard recommended spring rates are a tad soft (though good for road use at 180lb front / 120lb rear), but it's easy to change that around - 225 front and 180 rear is the popular recommendation; mine was set-up slightly stiffer still and the result is stonking - so I've kept it that way.
Huff said:
It is indeed a Jeremy Phillips design, being essentially the Sylva Phoenix with very slightly different bodywork and starting life as a build supplied by Mark Fisher - hence the name. The chassis/suspension is very well sorted and resulting handling is sublime, regardless of whether IRS or live-axle variants.
Like all such small light adjustable cars, such things are also easily tweaked & set-up to exactly match your preference, but the out-of-the-box suggested settings are a solid start. After you've got used to it many find that the standard recommended spring rates are a tad soft (though good for road use at 180lb front / 120lb rear), but it's easy to change that around - 225 front and 180 rear is the popular recommendation; mine was set-up slightly stiffer still and the result is stonking - so I've kept it that way.
Suspension designs and geometry have profound effects upon the handling of cars and kit cars are necessarily generally built from what can be aquired, that will fit the bill at the time, on the car being constructed. Having built and driven many kit cars over many, many years I have found out the hard way how very small changes can drastically alter the handling and feel of a kit car. Like all such small light adjustable cars, such things are also easily tweaked & set-up to exactly match your preference, but the out-of-the-box suggested settings are a solid start. After you've got used to it many find that the standard recommended spring rates are a tad soft (though good for road use at 180lb front / 120lb rear), but it's easy to change that around - 225 front and 180 rear is the popular recommendation; mine was set-up slightly stiffer still and the result is stonking - so I've kept it that way.
Duttons and some Robin Hoods, the plywood locusts/locusts and the like, have been the most challenging to try and correct. Chassis flexing, particularly with heavy high torque engines, can be a real devil to resolve. I have more or less tamed my elderly Dutton V8, after several years of experimenting with chassis strengthening and fully independent RS, which has helped but it is still vicious in the wet and needs very careful handling. For that reason rarely driven. Sentimental value to me I have had that car a long time.
I remember Huff's car
This was my R1 Fury I built back in 2005. I preferred the Le Mans bonnet and aeroscreen combination.
Strange you mentioned the distance being ok. I drove mine down from Kent to le mans and got out the other end fresh as a daisy, previously in an MX5 it seemed like a bit of a journey.
I had R500 Tilletts though which I still rate as the best seats I've had for my dodgy lower back.
This was my R1 Fury I built back in 2005. I preferred the Le Mans bonnet and aeroscreen combination.
Strange you mentioned the distance being ok. I drove mine down from Kent to le mans and got out the other end fresh as a daisy, previously in an MX5 it seemed like a bit of a journey.
I had R500 Tilletts though which I still rate as the best seats I've had for my dodgy lower back.
AdamWilkins said:
Nice write-up.
I've long thought Jeremy Phillips deserves wider-spread recognition for his 30-odd year car-designing career.
That's my car, 4th from the front, JP was kind enough to sign it that day - I had the cheek to sign it next to his name & write "designed by" & "built by" against the sigs.I've long thought Jeremy Phillips deserves wider-spread recognition for his 30-odd year car-designing career.
Again that day meant a trip from Guildford to Donnington then home again, no problems.
The Fury has exemplary handling straight out of the box & the chassis has been developed alongside the car's racing career - not all kit cars are. The engineering is top notch, I say this as an aircraft designer with 30 years experience.
My advice would be to not go for too much power, think of a Fury as an alternative to a Lotus Elan - only lighter, quicker, flatter in the corners & with a chassis all round you if it does all go wrong, also they're cheap enough to be "disposable".
With a 110bhp crossflow (about 170 / tonne) it was sublime, with 170bhp (300 / tonne) it is superbly balanced for handling, acceleration & braking, much more grunt & I think the poise might be overwhelmed - I can boot it out of corners safe in the knowledge that it'll just grip & go - others with a higher level of "stig" might disagree.
It you want the distilled essence of a performance car - the Fury is it.
I love my Fury which I built between 2006 and 2009. Sits outside 365 days a year. NA MX5 engine out of 1989 wreck, live axle etc. Really in my spec a fast road car. At 50 mph the rain blows onto the inside of the screen so you are forced to go faster
Don't buy a hood, get a tonneau - these things fill up from the top so I drilled holes in the floor.
Don't buy a hood, get a tonneau - these things fill up from the top so I drilled holes in the floor.
Another Fury fan here :-)
I built one of the first Fury Fireblades back in 2002, was not easy to be honest compared to building sonething line a Caterham, but Mark Fisher and the owners club always were a great help. No 2 Fury's are even remotely the same though, and I estimate there is maybe 600 furys in existence out there?? They are a lot of car for the money that is for sure , and the cheapest I ever heard an MOTd example sell for was just under £3k...
I have an R1powered Sylva Phoenix now, similar car designed again by Jeremy Phillips, and I cannot ever imagine selling it. I won my class in the 2012 Brighton Speed Trials in it, 1/4 mile on street tyres in 13.2 seconds which is not amazing but a Ferrari F40 did it in 13.5... All will a little 140 bhp 998cc Yamaha R1 bike engine costing about. £800.... On a proper drag surface it will do a 12 second run . And on Sprints it will beat the lap times of Porsche GT3s. These little cars are amazing performance for the money.
As a side, re aerodynamics, a Fury with identical running gear to a 7 type car can have upto 10mph top speed advantage over one, as proved by the 750mc racers. They all jumped ship and in the heyday of the RGB championship you had to have a Fury. A 7 type , especially one with a flat screen needs a lot of power over 110 mph which is where the Fury pulls out a big advantage. I found at Zolder back to back with my mates tuned R400 Caterham I was only marginally slower over a lap despite 210 hp v 140!!!!!
I built one of the first Fury Fireblades back in 2002, was not easy to be honest compared to building sonething line a Caterham, but Mark Fisher and the owners club always were a great help. No 2 Fury's are even remotely the same though, and I estimate there is maybe 600 furys in existence out there?? They are a lot of car for the money that is for sure , and the cheapest I ever heard an MOTd example sell for was just under £3k...
I have an R1powered Sylva Phoenix now, similar car designed again by Jeremy Phillips, and I cannot ever imagine selling it. I won my class in the 2012 Brighton Speed Trials in it, 1/4 mile on street tyres in 13.2 seconds which is not amazing but a Ferrari F40 did it in 13.5... All will a little 140 bhp 998cc Yamaha R1 bike engine costing about. £800.... On a proper drag surface it will do a 12 second run . And on Sprints it will beat the lap times of Porsche GT3s. These little cars are amazing performance for the money.
As a side, re aerodynamics, a Fury with identical running gear to a 7 type car can have upto 10mph top speed advantage over one, as proved by the 750mc racers. They all jumped ship and in the heyday of the RGB championship you had to have a Fury. A 7 type , especially one with a flat screen needs a lot of power over 110 mph which is where the Fury pulls out a big advantage. I found at Zolder back to back with my mates tuned R400 Caterham I was only marginally slower over a lap despite 210 hp v 140!!!!!
Furyblade_Lee said:
Another Fury fan here :-)
I built one of the first Fury Fireblades back in 2002, was not easy to be honest compared to building sonething line a Caterham, but Mark Fisher and the owners club always were a great help. No 2 Fury's are even remotely the same though, and I estimate there is maybe 600 furys in existence out there?? They are a lot of car for the money that is for sure , and the cheapest I ever heard an MOTd example sell for was just under £3k...
I have an R1powered Sylva Phoenix now, similar car designed again by Jeremy Phillips, and I cannot ever imagine selling it. I won my class in the 2012 Brighton Speed Trials in it, 1/4 mile on street tyres in 13.2 seconds which is not amazing but a Ferrari F40 did it in 13.5... All will a little 140 bhp 998cc Yamaha R1 bike engine costing about. £800.... On a proper drag surface it will do a 12 second run . And on Sprints it will beat the lap times of Porsche GT3s. These little cars are amazing performance for the money.
As a side, re aerodynamics, a Fury with identical running gear to a 7 type car can have upto 10mph top speed advantage over one, as proved by the 750mc racers. They all jumped ship and in the heyday of the RGB championship you had to have a Fury. A 7 type , especially one with a flat screen needs a lot of power over 110 mph which is where the Fury pulls out a big advantage. I found at Zolder back to back with my mates tuned R400 Caterham I was only marginally slower over a lap despite 210 hp v 140!!!!!
Slippery shapes make a real difference at speed. I can well I understand the enthusiasm for the Fury it is a very well designed and sorted car. I have owned a number of Phillips designed cars going right back to the chevette rear axle design used on the earliest cars. The handling of every one as been exceptional. Nice man too, his energy and ability has been missed by the kit car fraternity following his retirement. I wish him well.I built one of the first Fury Fireblades back in 2002, was not easy to be honest compared to building sonething line a Caterham, but Mark Fisher and the owners club always were a great help. No 2 Fury's are even remotely the same though, and I estimate there is maybe 600 furys in existence out there?? They are a lot of car for the money that is for sure , and the cheapest I ever heard an MOTd example sell for was just under £3k...
I have an R1powered Sylva Phoenix now, similar car designed again by Jeremy Phillips, and I cannot ever imagine selling it. I won my class in the 2012 Brighton Speed Trials in it, 1/4 mile on street tyres in 13.2 seconds which is not amazing but a Ferrari F40 did it in 13.5... All will a little 140 bhp 998cc Yamaha R1 bike engine costing about. £800.... On a proper drag surface it will do a 12 second run . And on Sprints it will beat the lap times of Porsche GT3s. These little cars are amazing performance for the money.
As a side, re aerodynamics, a Fury with identical running gear to a 7 type car can have upto 10mph top speed advantage over one, as proved by the 750mc racers. They all jumped ship and in the heyday of the RGB championship you had to have a Fury. A 7 type , especially one with a flat screen needs a lot of power over 110 mph which is where the Fury pulls out a big advantage. I found at Zolder back to back with my mates tuned R400 Caterham I was only marginally slower over a lap despite 210 hp v 140!!!!!
The Lotus Seven/Caterham etc styles of design are anything but slippery. In consequence even with higher power engines the performance above 100 MPH is very much reduced by the serious drag that this body style entails. Same downside to the Locost/Locust 7 etc styles of bodywork but with any of these there is the additional downside of very variable strengths in the underlying chassis and particularly so with the plywood versions which really can be very flexible and distinctly challenging.
Plywood can be very effective as a supporting member within kit car designs as Frank Costion demonstrated very effectively with the Marcos over many years. However this requires a level of care in the design and precision construction thereof which is not aways apprent in the cars that I have seen built in this way personally over the last 20 years of kit car enjoyment.
I think we all have to decide what we are looking for in a kit car and can actually go for it and get the enjoyment loving a car can bring. Slippery shapes must surely be the future as aside from the serious lossses in performance, that come with the high drag designs, fuel consumption is also seriously disadvantaged because the drag also requires a lot more power and a much more fuel. Win win I think. Good Game!
Really good to hear that there are enthusiasts about who really do love ther kit cars abd gain huge enjoyment from taking on some of the apparently quicker, rather more expensive
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