Cadillac to return to the UK
Discussion
Thankyou4calling said:
I've just had a quick peek at the cadillac website.
The CTS looks fantastic but, the entry level option is a 2 litre petrol turbo, it claims 20 MPG in the city and 30 on the highway. I don't know how that equates to the UK MPG tests but for arguements sake lets say it acheives 25 MPG overall.
Straight away that is more than twice the fuel consumption of a Merc c class entry level.
The US figures and UK figures are incomparable - the US figures being far more realistic and less complete fabrication than the useless NEDC figures.The CTS looks fantastic but, the entry level option is a 2 litre petrol turbo, it claims 20 MPG in the city and 30 on the highway. I don't know how that equates to the UK MPG tests but for arguements sake lets say it acheives 25 MPG overall.
Straight away that is more than twice the fuel consumption of a Merc c class entry level.
The 2.0T Cadillacs are about as economical as the equivalent 2.0T BMW's and the petrol Mercs. I tend to average about 32-35 UK MPG over a typical 3000 mile trip. My F10 530d used for the same sort of trip over here returns about 41mpg.
Wow, just seen the price lists. What on earth are they doing? £52,000 for a 2.0T CTS Premium? The same money gets you a BMW 550i? £40k for the top ATS too, thats more than a 335i M Sport...
They need to undercut BMW and Mercedes or they will sell approximately zero cars. Nobody in the universe wants to pay £52,000 for a 5 Series rival with a 4 cylinder petrol engine.
They need to undercut BMW and Mercedes or they will sell approximately zero cars. Nobody in the universe wants to pay £52,000 for a 5 Series rival with a 4 cylinder petrol engine.
Stu R said:
Always amazes me when US car companies think there's any point in trying to crack the UK market.
au contraire, I know what you're thinking but I think britain in 2015 might be ripe for them. BMW, merc and audi aren't refined driving machines made for petrolheads, they're status symbols to 90+% of those who buy them. Only yesterday I was reading a thread on here, a "petrolhead" enclave, from someone complaining a 1.6 petrol audi is rubbish compared to a 2.0tdi because it doesn't zoom off when you floor it in 5th, it required dropping gears!!1!!11. Where do you begin with that?Cleverly marketed as a premium brand while undercutting ze german contemporaries AND giving better bang-for-buck in terms of kit they could do really well.
Sheepshanks said:
forzaminardi said:
I think there would be potential interest in the brand among younger consumers who are likely to associate Cadillac with rappers and bling sh*t....
That's obviously the demographic they're going for: http://www.cadillaceurope.com/experience_cadillac/...M3DGE said:
RobinBanks said:
Chrysler have done reasonably well on and off here over the last 20 years. The Voyager sold well at times and so did the first generation 300C.
There also used to be quite a few Neons around.
Chrysler announced last week that they are pulling out of the UK market due to insufficient volumes.There also used to be quite a few Neons around.
Caddy's previous efforts have been woeful. They imported the STS in the early 2000s; it held the record for the fastest depreciating car in the UK. No adjustment for the UK market, thirsty, handled like a boat, etc. Then they rebadged the Saab 93 as the BLS...that went well...there is quite simply no point in trying this again, it is doomed to fail.
forzaminardi said:
Sheepshanks said:
forzaminardi said:
I think there would be potential interest in the brand among younger consumers who are likely to associate Cadillac with rappers and bling sh*t....
That's obviously the demographic they're going for: http://www.cadillaceurope.com/experience_cadillac/...hairyben said:
Stu R said:
Always amazes me when US car companies think there's any point in trying to crack the UK market.
au contraire, I know what you're thinking but I think britain in 2015 might be ripe for them. BMW, merc and audi aren't refined driving machines made for petrolheads, they're status symbols to 90+% of those who buy them. Only yesterday I was reading a thread on here, a "petrolhead" enclave, from someone complaining a 1.6 petrol audi is rubbish compared to a 2.0tdi because it doesn't zoom off when you floor it in 5th, it required dropping gears!!1!!11. Where do you begin with that?Cleverly marketed as a premium brand while undercutting ze german contemporaries AND giving better bang-for-buck in terms of kit they could do really well.
I'm with you, but I just don't see them being willing to spend what they'd need to in marketing to pose much of a threat. Given there's no real dealer network to speak of, and how much the Germans pour into marketing themselves as premium, there's a bit of a whiff of infiniti about it to me. I hope they do well, their product certainly stands up.
Fox- said:
Wow, just seen the price lists. What on earth are they doing? £52,000 for a 2.0T CTS Premium? The same money gets you a BMW 550i? £40k for the top ATS too, thats more than a 335i M Sport...
They need to undercut BMW and Mercedes or they will sell approximately zero cars. Nobody in the universe wants to pay £52,000 for a 5 Series rival with a 4 cylinder petrol engine.
This. I've driven the previous generation CTS and the current ATS, and I liked them both very much.They need to undercut BMW and Mercedes or they will sell approximately zero cars. Nobody in the universe wants to pay £52,000 for a 5 Series rival with a 4 cylinder petrol engine.
However, the real world discounted price of an E220 or 520d is £27k, with cheap leases and/or PCPs on top. I'm sure Cadillac could make money at that price if they did the volume, but realistically we would need to see:
ATS - Start at £21k transaction price (list £24,995) with the 160 bhp diesel engine from the Vectra as the base option; maybe the 130 version would sell but it would be too close to Mercedes on CO2
CTS - £25k with the same engine, after discount, so list of £31k, and I'd probably like to see more power
XTS - God no, leave it where it is. (Nice car, by the way, and I'm a huge fan of the Impala that it closely resembles, but it's unsaleable here).
Escalade - Well I'd rather not, but there probably is a market at £49k as a 'cut price' Range Rover, and that would still pitch it above an X5.
Keep the other SUVs until the next generation.
The whole thing just seems bizarre, how they could get it so wrong?
The prices are insane, the warranty is awful (60k miles) and there is currently ONE dealer who will sell them and ONE dealer who will service them and the two are 250 miles apart?
What a real shame - a properly tailored range at the right price has a real chance in the UK market as for once the product is actually right. But it seems like they'll ruin it again with poor execution.
The prices are insane, the warranty is awful (60k miles) and there is currently ONE dealer who will sell them and ONE dealer who will service them and the two are 250 miles apart?
What a real shame - a properly tailored range at the right price has a real chance in the UK market as for once the product is actually right. But it seems like they'll ruin it again with poor execution.
279 said:
I don't think they ever will in the UK - We are just not willing to change our perceptions about anything.
Look at how long Lexus have been consistently putting out quality vehicles out for and yet you'll still find someone ready to bust out a partridge joke the second one is mentioned. They have a few minor recalls and everyone tuts, meanwhile BMW put out cars that can be stolen with a screwdriver and a laptoo and Mercedes quality has dropped off significantly and yet the sales keep on coming.
A great example IMO is the line up of Hyundai USA and Hyundai UK. In the states they are producing some interesting cars that are getting good reviews, but they don't bother bringing them to the UK because they know that they simply won't shift them because Hyundai have a reputation for banging out small, cheap cars in this country, a V8 luxury saloon or 300bhp V6 RWD sports car is unlikely to sell with a H on the front here.
Hyundai are having a go here with the Genesis now their reputation and popularity is improving with more than just cheap and cheerful cars. Look at how long Lexus have been consistently putting out quality vehicles out for and yet you'll still find someone ready to bust out a partridge joke the second one is mentioned. They have a few minor recalls and everyone tuts, meanwhile BMW put out cars that can be stolen with a screwdriver and a laptoo and Mercedes quality has dropped off significantly and yet the sales keep on coming.
A great example IMO is the line up of Hyundai USA and Hyundai UK. In the states they are producing some interesting cars that are getting good reviews, but they don't bother bringing them to the UK because they know that they simply won't shift them because Hyundai have a reputation for banging out small, cheap cars in this country, a V8 luxury saloon or 300bhp V6 RWD sports car is unlikely to sell with a H on the front here.
Edited by 279 on Monday 23 March 16:26
http://www.hyundai.co.uk/coming-soon/genesis
Munter said:
At least some US brands have realised there is no market for their name here.
Chevrolet: http://www.chevrolet.co.uk/owners-area/important-c...
Chrysler: http://www.carbuyer.co.uk/news/147783/chrysler-axe...
the problem with the Chevrolet brand in the UK was the fact that it was rebadged Daewoos not the US vehicles Chevrolet: http://www.chevrolet.co.uk/owners-area/important-c...
Chrysler: http://www.carbuyer.co.uk/news/147783/chrysler-axe...
don't forget that GM globally views Vauxhall / Opel as a premium brand aligned with Buick and Cadillac ( as can be seen by by current and past Opelk products as Buicks and Caddys )
Chrysler's last big push was with re-badged Lancias rather than sticking to niche markets (PTloser , MPVs, 300c) / bargains (neon)
Stu R said:
hairyben said:
Stu R said:
Always amazes me when US car companies think there's any point in trying to crack the UK market.
au contraire, I know what you're thinking but I think britain in 2015 might be ripe for them. BMW, merc and audi aren't refined driving machines made for petrolheads, they're status symbols to 90+% of those who buy them. Only yesterday I was reading a thread on here, a "petrolhead" enclave, from someone complaining a 1.6 petrol audi is rubbish compared to a 2.0tdi because it doesn't zoom off when you floor it in 5th, it required dropping gears!!1!!11. Where do you begin with that?Cleverly marketed as a premium brand while undercutting ze german contemporaries AND giving better bang-for-buck in terms of kit they could do really well.
I'm with you, but I just don't see them being willing to spend what they'd need to in marketing to pose much of a threat. Given there's no real dealer network to speak of, and how much the Germans pour into marketing themselves as premium, there's a bit of a whiff of infiniti about it to me. I hope they do well, their product certainly stands up.
This is what killed Bauer-Millett.
GM will give you annual targets to meet, unrealistic transfer prices, and you pay for the privilege handsomely.
It is a very brave dealer that decides to repeat Bauer-Millett.
There is no margin in it for them.
If GM are serious about the UK - they should go "balls out".
But they won't.
GM will give you annual targets to meet, unrealistic transfer prices, and you pay for the privilege handsomely.
It is a very brave dealer that decides to repeat Bauer-Millett.
There is no margin in it for them.
If GM are serious about the UK - they should go "balls out".
But they won't.
Troubleatmill said:
This is what killed Bauer-Millett.
GM will give you annual targets to meet, unrealistic transfer prices, and you pay for the privilege handsomely.
It is a very brave dealer that decides to repeat Bauer-Millett.
There is no margin in it for them.
If GM are serious about the UK - they should go "balls out".
But they won't.
Vauxhall had some kind of falling out with Charles Warner in Lincoln meaning there is currently no offical Vauxhall dealer in Lincoln instead you are directed to Twells in Billinghay (most of the way top Sleaford) or a 'service partner' at leadenham ...GM will give you annual targets to meet, unrealistic transfer prices, and you pay for the privilege handsomely.
It is a very brave dealer that decides to repeat Bauer-Millett.
There is no margin in it for them.
If GM are serious about the UK - they should go "balls out".
But they won't.
Thankyou4calling said:
I've just had a quick peek at the cadillac website.
The CTS looks fantastic but, the entry level option is a 2 litre petrol turbo, it claims 20 MPG in the city and 30 on the highway. I don't know how that equates to the UK MPG tests but for arguements sake lets say it acheives 25 MPG overall.
Straight away that is more than twice the fuel consumption of a Merc c class entry level.
That needs to be addressed to have a chance as in the UK economy is a MASSIVE selling point to most people.
It does sound bad but their fuel consumption is worked out differently to ours, the EPA rating using a cycle thats probably more realistic than the one that gets used in Europe and gives cars like the fiat 500 twin air a rosy result when the truth is far from it. 30 MPG US = 36 MPG UK. So it can't be that far off what something with a 2.0 l turbo can manage.The CTS looks fantastic but, the entry level option is a 2 litre petrol turbo, it claims 20 MPG in the city and 30 on the highway. I don't know how that equates to the UK MPG tests but for arguements sake lets say it acheives 25 MPG overall.
Straight away that is more than twice the fuel consumption of a Merc c class entry level.
That needs to be addressed to have a chance as in the UK economy is a MASSIVE selling point to most people.
Otispunkmeyer said:
Thankyou4calling said:
I've just had a quick peek at the cadillac website.
The CTS looks fantastic but, the entry level option is a 2 litre petrol turbo, it claims 20 MPG in the city and 30 on the highway. I don't know how that equates to the UK MPG tests but for arguements sake lets say it acheives 25 MPG overall.
Straight away that is more than twice the fuel consumption of a Merc c class entry level.
That needs to be addressed to have a chance as in the UK economy is a MASSIVE selling point to most people.
It does sound bad but their fuel consumption is worked out differently to ours, the EPA rating using a cycle thats probably more realistic than the one that gets used in Europe and gives cars like the fiat 500 twin air a rosy result when the truth is far from it. 30 MPG US = 36 MPG UK. So it can't be that far off what something with a 2.0 l turbo can manage.The CTS looks fantastic but, the entry level option is a 2 litre petrol turbo, it claims 20 MPG in the city and 30 on the highway. I don't know how that equates to the UK MPG tests but for arguements sake lets say it acheives 25 MPG overall.
Straight away that is more than twice the fuel consumption of a Merc c class entry level.
That needs to be addressed to have a chance as in the UK economy is a MASSIVE selling point to most people.
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