Why is LPG not more widespread?

[Ilovejapcrap]

I had a work van with lpg it was soooooo slow in lpg, mind you it was a 1.4 petrol combo van ( x reg) fully loaded so not amazing in petrol.

I once came down a slip road onto motorway and could not get enougth umphhh to come on before lorry 56 mph so had to carry on down hard shoulder.

[Zigster]

Another reason why not: you can't go through the Channel Tunnel if you have LPG (I think). Perhaps not the biggest negative but it all adds up.

And isn't LPG subsidised? I'd be suspicious of the subsidy being weakened or removed in the future so removing the financial incentive.

[kambites]

Zigster said:

And isn't LPG subsidised? I'd be suspicious of the subsidy being weakened or removed in the future so removing the financial incentive.

It's not subsidised as such, it's just not taxed as heavily as other road fuel.

[Quinny]

Zigster said:

Another reason why not: you can't go through the Channel Tunnel if you have LPG (I think). Perhaps not the biggest negative but it all adds up.
.

Correct......but they're happy to let me through in my motorhome with 2 full LPG tanks holding around 40 litres (heating and cooking)

But it's elf n safety innit

[Matt UK]

mcflurry said:

IMHO it's the upfront costs for an after market fix, plus lack of availability as a standard option (except IIRC by Vauxhall)

Agreed. And I've had trusted Indeps say "if you go LPG, don't bring it back here, if there's a problem and I say it's the LPG kit and your installer says its not, it's you who is stuck in the middle having to drive to multiple places sussing it out"

I looked into, but decided that the onus was on me to become the expert on what system to have etc and decided that life is too short. Just phone two LPG installers - IME they'll give you different advice about the best system for your car and if you mention the other system, they'll suck their teeth and say "oh no sir, that is not a system that you want on your car.."

Basically, I got bored with the whole idea

[55palfers]

BoRED S2upid said:

I was thinking this the other day when stood next to an LPG pump. Why don't manufacturers make LPG cars?

I think Mercedes make an LPG Sprinter??

[iloveboost]

Fastdruid said:

For me its threefold

1) No LPG near me unless I go massively out of my way to a motorway services (where it's far more expensive than a 'normal' garage).
2) Fear of engine damage.
3) Long payback time.

Basically I only do ~5k PA of personal miles so it would workout at something like a £300 saving PA. Not really worth it when I don't intend to keep the car long enough for it to pay back!

I agree it's all of the above. Most people change their cars every few years or buy new every three years. Either way, it's not worth converting unless you're doing above average miles.
I've thought about buying an LPG converted car, but it seems to be true that the valves and head gasket don't last as long with a standard conversion. Plus you lose your spare wheel and lose a bit of power. Also the only garage near me that sold LPG recently stopped selling it, so I think that window of opportunity has closed.

Edited by iloveboost on Monday 23 March 20:29

[PositronicRay]

Matt UK said:

mcflurry said:

IMHO it's the upfront costs for an after market fix, plus lack of availability as a standard option (except IIRC by Vauxhall)

Agreed. And I've had trusted Indeps say "if you go LPG, don't bring it back here, if there's a problem and I say it's the LPG kit and your installer says its not, it's you who is stuck in the middle having to drive to multiple places sussing it out"

I looked into, but decided that the onus was on me to become the expert on what system to have etc and decided that life is too short. Just phone two LPG installers - IME they'll give you different advice about the best system for your car and if you mention the other system, they'll suck their teeth and say "oh no sir, that is not a system that you want on your car.."

Basically, I got bored with the whole idea

Don't you have to have a "Gas safe certificate" to work on LPG systems?

[Matt UK]

PositronicRay said:

Matt UK said:

mcflurry said:

IMHO it's the upfront costs for an after market fix, plus lack of availability as a standard option (except IIRC by Vauxhall)

Agreed. And I've had trusted Indeps say "if you go LPG, don't bring it back here, if there's a problem and I say it's the LPG kit and your installer says its not, it's you who is stuck in the middle having to drive to multiple places sussing it out"

I looked into, but decided that the onus was on me to become the expert on what system to have etc and decided that life is too short. Just phone two LPG installers - IME they'll give you different advice about the best system for your car and if you mention the other system, they'll suck their teeth and say "oh no sir, that is not a system that you want on your car.."

Basically, I got bored with the whole idea

Don't you have to have a "Gas safe certificate" to work on LPG systems?

Not sure, I never really got that far with it

I'd buy an already converted car though, so long as it was at smoker money.

[Jim AK]

Could be wrong but im sure I read somewhere Subaru offer some models here with LPG option.

I ran a 56 plate Volvo V70 for more than 5 years & over 100k with no drama at all.

Ok I couldnt use Channel Tunnel but was never barred from a multi-storey carpark as someone claimed in another thread here last week! & yes I had to sacrifice my spare wheel but I found some `Gloop` you had put into the tyres & if I had a nail in the tyre, never did, you pulled it out & it sealed itself.

Had a BRC system fitted locally to me for about £1600 iirc & only went in every 15k for a service that I always waited for to be completed, think it is just filters they need to change.

We also have a Dualfuel Astra 03 plate & currently on 142K & running fine although the service history leads me to believe it had engine replacement @ 20k. No idea if this was LPG related or not but the thing really does run as sweet as anything.

In the time we have had them I only once got caught out getting gas, all my fault as I had not downloaded an updated map & the garage I went to had closed down.

According to Mrs JimAK`s VW Polo handbook they offer LPG cars from the factory in certain markets but am also led to believe that a lot of petrol engines these days are `Common Rail` & that means the engine needs a mix of LPG & petrol all the time to keep the injectors cool. I did try to ascertain what impact this would have on running costs but even the system manufacturers couldnt, or wouldnt, answer my question. Was looking to possibly LPG a Merc E 350 CGi.

I also think that as both Petrol & Diesel engines have become so much more economical the break even point is even higher these days. I will freely admit that the fuel costs of my current Diesel Merc & the Volvo I had are almost identical.

All that said I would have another especially if I ever get around to scratching the V8 4x4 or Luxobarge itch.

[LouD86]

Rangeroverover said:

I have a Range Rover Classic 3.9 that runs on LPG, bought it already converted, I have had it 2 years, so far no dramas, it means that in money terms I am doing about 30mpg. Without LPG I wouldn't have bought a guzzler.

In exactly the same situation as you with my Discovery. I wanted v8, manual, 4wd, tow 2t, and only due to lpg have i got a car that will do it all, and not break the bank!

[Gareth79]

I have it on my Impreza, bought already installed, no problems over 40k miles so far.

To my mind the things that put people off a conversion are:

- The duty rates are only fixed a short time into the future - so the pub 'experts' come out with "oh LPG, it's going up next year to match petrol prices", causing FUD.
- As mentioned aftermarket kits take up space, factory installs in place of the fuel tank (with a smaller reserve petrol tank) would be great.

I don't think the risk of explosions etc. are much of an issue, and the reality is that it's probably overall safer than petrol.

[Willy Nilly]

we have an semi industrial forklift that is LPG. It came like this from the factory, so not a dodgy conversion and it has been a temperamental little bd. At any one time there are 5 tractors on the farm along with an old diesel forklift, telehandler and the combine and aside from on combine and it's crappy CAT Acert fuel system, all of the fuel and fueling problems have been related to the gas forklift.

We need it to work in the shed, so it doesn't choke us, but the cost of running it per hour is about double that of the same machine running on red diesel. I'd never run a car in the stuff.

[zeppelin101]

Jim AK said:

a lot of petrol engines these days are `Common Rail` & that means the engine needs a mix of LPG & petrol all the time to keep the injectors cool.

This is true in as much as a high percentage of petrol engines on the market sold now are direct injection.

Audi run both port and direct injector on some of their engines to reduce particulates once the catalysts are hot - the injector in each cylinder will occasionally fuel under certain conditions either due to a combustion benefit (at full load for instance) and some others that I can't remember at the moment.

The long and short of it is that you would need to cheat the ECU in some way to run a "traditional" port installed LPG system or somehow run the LPG through the direct injection system in an aftermarket install.

[Keep it stiff]

1. Expensive to convert.
2. Adds little/nothing to residue value.
3. Practicalities of loss of space to accommodate the tank.
4. Short range on gas.
5. Too few outlets.
6. No certainty to what extent the fuel duty differential will be maintained by the exchequer.

[BritishRacinGrin]

If I remember correctly the government has committed to increase the tax rate of LPG at a rate no greater than 1p more per year than petrol or diesel, until 2020 or something.

[Riley Blue]

somynameiswhat said:

People only get LPG when they have a car with a big engine(most of the time) and often takes a lot of fuel to run, making LPG the cheaper alternative for them. Problem is, the UK hasn't got many people with cars that really drink fuel e.g. V8's, everyone has ecoboxes or small 4 cylinder engines. I think cars consume more LPG in miles per gallon than petrol anyway, making the only advantage of LPG being that it is cheaper, making it less expensive to run in the long run.

Seriously?

[kambites]

BritishRacinGrin said:

If I remember correctly the government has committed to increase the tax rate of LPG at a rate no greater than 1p more per year than petrol or diesel, until 2020 or something.

Which government and is it legally binding on a different government after the election?

[conkerman]

Tightarses wont pay the upfront costs in many cases.

Poor Market Availability

Poor image of previous OEM installations and some 3rd party installlers.

Perception of engine durability issues.

Loss of spare tyre, goo won't fix a blowout.

Pretty much all of this can be mitigated and i am seriously considering an LPG barge as my next car.

[kambites]

Has anyone got LPG working reliably with direct injection engines yet? If not, that's going to be an increasing large problem as more and more petrol engines head down that route.