Why is LPG not more widespread?
Discussion
liner33 said:
Every LPG equipped vehicle I have driven felt considerably down on power when on gas instead of petrol .
Plenty of other reasons as already covered.
Come and have a go in my Hemi......I'll buy you a pint if you can tell the difference between driving on LPG or petrolPlenty of other reasons as already covered.
I do agree with you to a point though..... My first cherokee was single point LPG, and although it ran ok it was well down on power when on LPG...
My second jeep (4.7 v8) uses multi point, and on this vehicle you can just about tell that it's now running on LPG....not a problem, tows a heavy horsebox no problem, but yes, a small drop in power......
The Hemi however, is the first LPG car I've owned with fully sequensial LPG system.... And honestly, myself and many petrol headed mates, just can not tell the difference between lpg and petrol.....in fact the only way I can tell it's changed over, is by watching the light on the dash.....it really is a step up, and an excellent way to run a 5.7 litre 330 bhp truck...
I keep accurate records and I'm getting 18 mpg on LPG at £0.52p per litre....
Edited by Quinny on Tuesday 24th March 09:51
I converted my GS300 last year in May when my commute changed to approx 1,000 miles a week. Conversion cost me £850 roughly and a full tank is about £25 and I get about 260 miles on average of commute driving (stop start on M1/local driving etc)
My car is slower on LPG, not as responsive either however it suits what I need from a car perfectly and done about 24,000 miles since conversion was done and its ran perfect the entire time.
You can get a flash lube kit to prevent the engine having valve issues and had numerous LPG cars in the household, ones we have got LPG converted and one's we have had converted. Plenty of filling stations around me to use too which is handy.
If your looking at keeping a car long term or do serious mileage it's worth doing
My car is slower on LPG, not as responsive either however it suits what I need from a car perfectly and done about 24,000 miles since conversion was done and its ran perfect the entire time.
You can get a flash lube kit to prevent the engine having valve issues and had numerous LPG cars in the household, ones we have got LPG converted and one's we have had converted. Plenty of filling stations around me to use too which is handy.
If your looking at keeping a car long term or do serious mileage it's worth doing
I looked at LPG when I was in the market for an uber-economical daily commuter. After weighing up the pros/cons I opted to run an older gen normally aspirated diesel on SVO and in hindsight I'm sure it was the way to go. No mods required to the car and has been totally reliable in 2+ years. The numbers also really stack up. The car does 55mpg all day long, and I have a reliable source of fresh SVO that has been stable at approx 70p/litre in 20l drums. Against pump diesel at 120p/litre that gives an 'equivalent' mpg of just under 95mpg. Just thought I'd mention it as it's another option to LPG which seems to have far fewer negatives.
liner33 said:
Every LPG equipped vehicle I have driven felt considerably down on power when on gas instead of petrol .
Plenty of other reasons as already covered.
When I had an LPG car, if I occasionally felt I needed a quick getaway from the lights or whatever I would just hit the fuel switch button back to petrol and it would switch within about 1 second. Then back to LPG when well on the way. No dramas.Plenty of other reasons as already covered.
Biggest problem I found was that filling stations generally only have one LPG pump (albeit double sided) and I'd invariably have to wait quite a while, either for other customers wanting LPG, or for some doofus that was getting petrol but then decided to park up on the pump for 20 mins while they did their grocery shopping inside, not realising that it was the one LPG pump they were blocking. Or finding LPG-equipped stations wasn't too difficult, but often their one pump would be broken in some way.
Did my ford explorer years ago with a multipoint system. Little bit down on power but did went from 60k miles to 120k miles with no engine problems and never used flash lube. What really pissed me off was the broken promise not to increase duty on the stuff. Over the time I used it which was about 3 years the price went from 38p/liter to 79p/litre. Given that it did about 25% less to the gallon on LPG I really wasn't saving that much. Dumped the guzzling old knacker and got an L200.
The other slight annoyance was the lack of LPG filling stations meant having to plan long journeys by where I could fill up.
A major plus was that the stuff burns so cleanly that the engine oil was like new after 10k miles of hard use.
The other slight annoyance was the lack of LPG filling stations meant having to plan long journeys by where I could fill up.
A major plus was that the stuff burns so cleanly that the engine oil was like new after 10k miles of hard use.
I noticed there was a lot more variation in the price of LPG compared to petrol and diesel, like over 20p/l difference between cheaper and more expensive garages. Backstreet gas-only type places tended to be cheaper.
There was a gas place round here where you put in like £500 quid credit up front to draw the fuel against, they were dirt cheap but I wasn't using enough of it to warrant the deal myself. If I was a taxi driver or something that's what I'd do.
There was a gas place round here where you put in like £500 quid credit up front to draw the fuel against, they were dirt cheap but I wasn't using enough of it to warrant the deal myself. If I was a taxi driver or something that's what I'd do.
Fastdruid said:
Nice! Purely for comparison what does it do on petrol?
Funnily enough I can tell you this due to having an LPG a injector issue a few weeks back, which meant 2 weeks of running on petrol...... With similar use to LPG about 21.... Both of the above figures are with very gentle cruising..... It's very easy to get into the 13-14 on LPG And 17-18 on petrol
A complete set of injectors (8) were less than £100 by the way, and fixed the issue completely....
My last 4 cars have all been on multipoint sequential BRC systems, the last one was an E39 540 sport and i only got rid as the gearbox was on the way out. The car has done 200K, with 120K on LPG, before that a 1.8 Passat with 250K on the clock, 160K on LPG and again the auto box failed no issues with either engine. As the BMW does 21-22 mpg it has saved me a fortune. I now run a 750 with no discernible difference in performance.
Most people when talking about LPG have had experience with the old single point systems were rubbish, slow change over, poor running, slow etc..
With regards to engines blowing up it is usually Japanese cars, fords and manufacturers that use a softer metal for the valves that suffer from burn't out valves, mercs, bmw's, vw's vauxhall's etc have no issues. However you can run a lubrication kit which feeds oil into the gas to reduce the likelihood of burning out the valves.
There are also a lot of issues with installers, a lot of them bodge the system on the car with no thought as to where items should be fitted. I have seen cars in the workshop where the LPG has been wired with twin and earth household cable.
At close to 40ppl I cannot recommend LPG enough but don't use a rubbish system, the only ones on the market really worth using are Prins (Dutch) or BRC (Italian). Both companies do a fully sequential injection system. Visit the installer before committing to anything to check out their work, if it looks like they threw it together in an afternoon with old bits of tin holding the parts in place they probably did, this will probably mean that they don't know how to set it up either!
Hope this helps.
Long may LPG let me run luxo barges for Focus money!A
Most people when talking about LPG have had experience with the old single point systems were rubbish, slow change over, poor running, slow etc..
With regards to engines blowing up it is usually Japanese cars, fords and manufacturers that use a softer metal for the valves that suffer from burn't out valves, mercs, bmw's, vw's vauxhall's etc have no issues. However you can run a lubrication kit which feeds oil into the gas to reduce the likelihood of burning out the valves.
There are also a lot of issues with installers, a lot of them bodge the system on the car with no thought as to where items should be fitted. I have seen cars in the workshop where the LPG has been wired with twin and earth household cable.
At close to 40ppl I cannot recommend LPG enough but don't use a rubbish system, the only ones on the market really worth using are Prins (Dutch) or BRC (Italian). Both companies do a fully sequential injection system. Visit the installer before committing to anything to check out their work, if it looks like they threw it together in an afternoon with old bits of tin holding the parts in place they probably did, this will probably mean that they don't know how to set it up either!
Hope this helps.
Long may LPG let me run luxo barges for Focus money!
AI've had the same LPG system on the last four cars. When the car dies, I just unbolt it and bolt it into the new car... OK, not quite as simple as that, it's a weekend's work, but an absolute no-brainer for me.
I think LPG suits particularly if you are handy with the spanners. My old cobbled-together Romano/Magic kit paid for itself years ago, it costs me about 50 quid to transfer it to another car (usually have to buy new pipes etc), and the same again to get it certified.
I commute to Düsseldorf most weeks. LPG is currently 30 pence per litre in Belgium, so obviously fill up there, and 40 pence per litre in Germany. Even at 60p per litre in UK, it makes for cheap motoring.
LPG simply means I can drive a comfy old v8 AMG barge instead of a tdi Passat. The Merc is far cheaper to run. Which would you rather be in?
I think LPG suits particularly if you are handy with the spanners. My old cobbled-together Romano/Magic kit paid for itself years ago, it costs me about 50 quid to transfer it to another car (usually have to buy new pipes etc), and the same again to get it certified.
I commute to Düsseldorf most weeks. LPG is currently 30 pence per litre in Belgium, so obviously fill up there, and 40 pence per litre in Germany. Even at 60p per litre in UK, it makes for cheap motoring.
LPG simply means I can drive a comfy old v8 AMG barge instead of a tdi Passat. The Merc is far cheaper to run. Which would you rather be in?
Edited by Utterpiffle on Tuesday 24th March 12:09
sydown said:
At close to 40ppl I cannot recommend LPG enough but don't use a rubbish system
I'm paying 59 ppl and agree modern LPG is excellent.But how the hell do you find it at that price?
59pppl is the cheapest here: http://www.filllpg.co.uk/
Martin4x4 said:
I'm paying 59 ppl and agree modern LPG is excellent.
But how the hell do you find it at that price?
59pppl is the cheapest here: http://www.filllpg.co.uk/
Birmingham Truckstop in Tyseley was as low as 42ppl (I think that was the lowest), but think it has gone back up to 44ppl. But how the hell do you find it at that price?
59pppl is the cheapest here: http://www.filllpg.co.uk/
I fill up at a local farm at 45ppl
Martin4x4 said:
I'm paying 59 ppl and agree modern LPG is excellent.
But how the hell do you find it at that price?
59pppl is the cheapest here: http://www.filllpg.co.uk/
cheapest on http://www.filllpg.co.uk is 50ppl on the first page.But how the hell do you find it at that price?
59pppl is the cheapest here: http://www.filllpg.co.uk/
longbow said:
I looked at LPG when I was in the market for an uber-economical daily commuter. After weighing up the pros/cons I opted to run an older gen normally aspirated diesel on SVO and in hindsight I'm sure it was the way to go. No mods required to the car and has been totally reliable in 2+ years. The numbers also really stack up. The car does 55mpg all day long, and I have a reliable source of fresh SVO that has been stable at approx 70p/litre in 20l drums. Against pump diesel at 120p/litre that gives an 'equivalent' mpg of just under 95mpg. Just thought I'd mention it as it's another option to LPG which seems to have far fewer negatives.
Until it eventually eats everything rubber. Pump seals etc.Not to mention thinning the mixture to aid with cold starts, a ballache id never do again!
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