£13k - what car? DS5 vs 320d vs c220 vs Insig biturbo etc

[RobM77]

Wills2 said:

Disappointed we haven't mentioned the 320d's legendary throttle response yet?

Not relevant, as the 330d is the same.

[scherzkeks]

Joebristolgym said:

Hi there, looking around at the moment for a new (to me) car. Planning on buying by around September this year.

Want a diesel - I have a job where I travel quite a lot - potentially up to 20k per year. Not interested in petrol for this having run a Seat Leon Tdi 140 for the last 18 months and really liked it. Bad points about it are that the engine really is very agricultural sounding inside and the interior is very 'plasticky'. Good points are reasonable economy, great seats (it has the sports pack with quite heavily bolstered seats), fairly punchy performance and it looks nice (although the wife hates it for some reason).

So a new car has to be at least as fast, needs to have sat nav built in, needs to be a manual gearbox and look ok. It also needs to be able to carry a reasonable load / be capable of carrying stuff in it. I'm not worried if it is a hatch, estate or saloon - as long as it has split folding rear seats.

The short list I've come up with is below - I don't want anything older than 2010 or with more than 50k miles on it.

• BMW 320d M Sport
• Merc C220 / C250 CDI Sport
• Citroen DS5 2 litre diesel (not the hybrid)
• Insignia Biturbo diesel

These are all right on the cusp of my budget, so would take potentially a lot of looking around for one, and hopefully a bit more depreciation in the next 6 months.

I appreciate they are slightly diverse - the Citroen would be the slowest / less sporting but I just like the interior and how it looks. The Insignia would have the most standard equipment I'd think. The BMW / Merc would likely have to be an estate as the split folding rear seats on these models was an optional extra, and I haven't seen too many cars with it specced on it.

Cars I have ruled out:

• Lexus IS220d - no estate or split folding seats
• Ford Mondeo - I just don't like them and neither does the wife.
• Mazda 6 2.2d sport - read too many bad things about the engine and corrosion, plus mazda wheels don't last well.

Any opinions on the cars I've mentioned, or any other suggestions welcomed!

Edited by Joebristolgym on Tuesday 24th March 16:16

C250 CDI AMG/sport.

Nice chassis, great proportions, reliable and sturdy, 500nm of torque, quiet at anything but idle, and great steering.

All without the BMW stigma/looks. Problem solved?

[Joebristolgym]

I'd love a C250 - in either white or black in sport spec. Split folding rear seats, sat nag and leather aren't a combination anywhere I've found though - certainly not in budget.

I hate auto gearboxes - had a go in a few cars with them and they always feel like they're in the wrong gear, then kick down too dramatically. I've had a go in a BMW 330i with one and a c180 c class. They were better than the vajxhall equivalent, or the cvt boxes in Toyota hybrids, but not by a lot.

Take on board the point about the 'looking back'factor. I think the merc and the ds5 would give me that, but the BMW and insignia wouldn't.

[Wills2]

RobM77 said:

Wills2 said:

Disappointed we haven't mentioned the 320d's legendary throttle response yet?

Not relevant, as the 330d is the same.

[cerb4.5lee]

RobM77 said:

rb5er said:

Nickbrapp said:

rb5er said:

Your list is horrendous. £13k? For any of those? oh dear.

What would you suggest that's better for motorway driving?

330d is far better than a 320d, 320cdi is better than a 220cdi. The extra shove in my book makes the car, turning it from a borefest to something you can enjoy much more but still achieve good economy.

That's just personal taste of course, not everyone is that heavily influenced by straight line performance, some may prefer the lower weight over the nose of the '20d cars or the better economy (and there is a noticeable difference in economy between the 330d and 320d) and not really care about the additional straight line shove (I know I for one am not that bothered by it). The other factor, which I know has influenced three good friends of mine who've recently bought BMWs, is the availability of manual gearboxes on the larger engine cars: last time I did a search on PH there were many times more auto BMWs over 2 litres than there were manuals; I can't remember the exact figures, but it was quite a striking difference.

Rob I hear what you are saying about the lower weight over the nose and because mostly I go for more capacity and more cylinders but when I had my 520d I did like how it turned into corners and you could tell a difference against the bigger engines.

I hated the 2.0d and manual gearbox combo of my 520d though and I am a die hard manual fan but I reckon its an annoying recipe and for me a diesel is best suited to an auto.

[Joebristolgym]

I think the 5 series is too big for me at this moment in time. A guy at work has a 520d touring(62 plate) and it's enormous. Defo want a manual car, not an auto.

Will check out the volvo options - prob a d4 rather than d5. Whilst the d5 is a nice 5 cylinder, it doesn't seem to have much more performance for the worse fuel economy (on paper) ?

[greg628]

Go for a volvo drivE v70. You get leather as standard, sat nav built in on most models. The seats have to be the best I've ever sat in. I crunched 40k miles in one year in a v70 20d r design and loved it. Having said that if you don't mind bland looks try the s80. £13k would get you a really nice 2 year old one. Do for se lux trim. To think this would have been £35k + new. A lot of car for the money.

[Sensibleboy]

No VW Passat CC on the list?

[greg628]

Passat CC has awful driving position.

[Sensibleboy]

Really? I thought it was conventional in every way possible.

[Joebristolgym]

Wouldn't the s80 be enormous? Same with the v70. Maybe a bit too old an image for me (I'm 34).

The passatt cc's I've seen in my price range have only had 2 back seats, not 3, which is a deal breaker. Not many have had a nice leather interior either - which is a shame as the exterior has a really premium image (someone on my road has a lovely looking white one).

[Sensibleboy]

I bet your £13k is very close to getting a GT spec CC with the 3 rear belts. I don't think you'd have to wait too long for the right spec and price to appear.

[austinsmirk]

Sorry

Ford love here. Buy a mondeo.

Have a look for the fairly recent threads on them on ph. Much love and no awful stories


You'll get 40 mpg around town and an easy 55 mpg on motorway with a 2.0.

13 k will prob get you a 12 mth old one stuffed with toys.

[greg628]

Ok answer on the Passat cc is that it's like sitting on the floor. Very similar to BMW 1 series position.

Ok answer on volvo image. Perhaps at 34 years of age is a little young for an s80 and possible v70. I've had a v60 and they are ok, just small inside. Don't go for the underpowered 1.6d though. I'm not a lover of small cars so the bigger the better and a bigger car tends to be more comfortable.

If you search you can find some cheap merc e class's. SE spec is comfy to drive as opposed to stiff set up of the AMG sport. I personally wouldn't swap my v6 Infiniti M sport premium for anything other than an s class though.

[RobM77]

Wills2 said:

RobM77 said:

Wills2 said:

Disappointed we haven't mentioned the 320d's legendary throttle response yet?

Not relevant, as the 330d is the same.

Yeah, ok, it's not the same throttle response, because the engine's rotational mass is much higher, but it's the same electronic throttle lag (i.e. almost none), as the fuelling method is identical.

[RobM77]

cerb4.5lee said:

RobM77 said:

rb5er said:

Nickbrapp said:

rb5er said:

Your list is horrendous. £13k? For any of those? oh dear.

What would you suggest that's better for motorway driving?

330d is far better than a 320d, 320cdi is better than a 220cdi. The extra shove in my book makes the car, turning it from a borefest to something you can enjoy much more but still achieve good economy.

That's just personal taste of course, not everyone is that heavily influenced by straight line performance, some may prefer the lower weight over the nose of the '20d cars or the better economy (and there is a noticeable difference in economy between the 330d and 320d) and not really care about the additional straight line shove (I know I for one am not that bothered by it). The other factor, which I know has influenced three good friends of mine who've recently bought BMWs, is the availability of manual gearboxes on the larger engine cars: last time I did a search on PH there were many times more auto BMWs over 2 litres than there were manuals; I can't remember the exact figures, but it was quite a striking difference.

Rob I hear what you are saying about the lower weight over the nose and because mostly I go for more capacity and more cylinders but when I had my 520d I did like how it turned into corners and you could tell a difference against the bigger engines.

I hated the 2.0d and manual gearbox combo of my 520d though and I am a die hard manual fan but I reckon its an annoying recipe and for me a diesel is best suited to an auto.

As I say, it's totally down to personal preference. I drove a friend's nearly new 520d auto the other day and yes, it's a fantastic car and the gearbox was excellent. It wasn't to my personal taste though (nor his, which is why he wanted my opinion). Personal taste and what's good or not are two very different things - normally on PH I'm commenting firmly on the latter, unless I specifically state that I'm giving my own opinion.

[scherzkeks]

Joebristolgym said:

I'd love a C250 - in either white or black in sport spec. Split folding rear seats, sat nag and leather aren't a combination anywhere I've found though - certainly not in budget.

Perhaps go for cloth and nav. Should be easier to find and cheaper, and the cloth is quite nice and hard-wearing.

[Wills2]

RobM77 said:

Wills2 said:

RobM77 said:

Wills2 said:

Disappointed we haven't mentioned the 320d's legendary throttle response yet?

Not relevant, as the 330d is the same.

Yeah, ok, it's not the same throttle response, because the engine's rotational mass is much higher, but it's the same electronic throttle lag (i.e. almost none), as the fuelling method is identical.

Keep going Rob, wonderful stuff!

[Doodlebug87]

Can you stretch your budget at all?

Only reason I ask is that I am on the cusp of purchasing a late 2009 E90 335d from BMW, only 30k on the clock - going for 16k. Others can be found for around the same money, or possibly a 330d for a little less

[cerb4.5lee]

RobM77 said:

As I say, it's totally down to personal preference. I drove a friend's nearly new 520d auto the other day and yes, it's a fantastic car and the gearbox was excellent. It wasn't to my personal taste though (nor his, which is why he wanted my opinion). Personal taste and what's good or not are two very different things - normally on PH I'm commenting firmly on the latter, unless I specifically state that I'm giving my own opinion.

Spot on and I do think its good that we all different things and have our own tastes, if you take us two for example you like the 2.0d engine and I don't and you like the E92 M3 and I don't and it would be a very boring world if we all liked the same thing.