Cheapest Supercar
Discussion
Bargain cheap offering is a Corvette C6 Z06
Handbuilt Engine from the racecar factory not the production line
7.0 V8
Able to stand toe to toe all day with any other supercar in its class
2 Door
2 Seats
7.0 sounds like the devil himself clearing his throat
Low enough to drive under car park barriers
The biggest negatives to discount it as a supercar is there is a low performance model with a chassis made of pig iron and not aluminium and it is too reliable for a supercar.
Handbuilt Engine from the racecar factory not the production line
7.0 V8
Able to stand toe to toe all day with any other supercar in its class
2 Door
2 Seats
7.0 sounds like the devil himself clearing his throat
Low enough to drive under car park barriers
The biggest negatives to discount it as a supercar is there is a low performance model with a chassis made of pig iron and not aluminium and it is too reliable for a supercar.
Having owned a 996 variant of the 911 for the last 3 years I'd say its not a super car.
Running costs are about those of any high end german barge and being resale silver it just blends into the background in most car parks.
Yes it will do 170mph and is still fantastic to drive even as a daily however it dosent have that slightly mad edgy feel that a super car should have.
The gt3's and turbos may be in with a shout but my n/A 3.6 nope.
Running costs are about those of any high end german barge and being resale silver it just blends into the background in most car parks.
Yes it will do 170mph and is still fantastic to drive even as a daily however it dosent have that slightly mad edgy feel that a super car should have.
The gt3's and turbos may be in with a shout but my n/A 3.6 nope.
MrBarry123 said:
emicen said:
LivewareProblem said:
There is no way the M135i is more "supercar" than a DBS
Revised formula would agree with you...[ Cylinders x Capacity x Exhausts ] / [ Driven Wheels x Doors x Wipers ]
| Car | Cylinders | Capacity | Exhausts | WWD | Doors | Wipers | Supercarness |
| Diablo | 12 | 6 | 4 | 2 | 2 | 1 | 72 |
| Lexus LFA | 10 | 4.8 | 3 | 2 | 2 | 1 | 36 |
| Carerra GT | 10 | 5.7 | 2 | 2 | 2 | 1 | 28.5 |
| Gallardo | 10 | 5 | 4 | 4 | 2 | 2 | 12.5 |
| DBS | 12 | 6 | 2 | 2 | 3 | 2 | 12 |
| M6 | 8 | 4.4 | 4 | 2 | 3 | 2 | 11.7 |
| 996 GT2 | 6 | 3.6 | 4 | 2 | 2 | 2 | 10.8 |
| M135i | 6 | 3 | 4 | 2 | 2 | 2 | 9 |
| M5 | 8 | 4.4 | 4 | 2 | 4 | 2 | 8.8 |
| 996 TT | 6 | 3.6 | 4 | 4 | 2 | 2 | 5.4 |
| GTR [R35] | 6 | 3.8 | 4 | 4 | 3 | 2 | 3.8 |
| M135i | 6 | 3 | 2 | 2 | 3 | 3 | 2 |
| Golf R | 4 | 2 | 4 | 4 | 3 | 3 | 0.9 |
| MINI Cooper S JCW [R56] | 4 | 1.6 | 2 | 2 | 3 | 3 | 0.7 |
| Golf R 5dr | 4 | 2 | 4 | 4 | 5 | 3 | 0.5 |
| Motorway Rep Express | 4 | 2 | 1 | 2 | 5 | 3 | 0.3 |
| Motorway Junior Rep | 4 | 1.6 | 1 | 2 | 5 | 3 | 0.2 |
I don't think engine capacity or number of exhausts has any bearing on it at all?
I think for me it mostly comes down to the performance (relative to other road cars on sale at the time it was released) and what it looks like. Supercars need to be fast and look it; that's it.
I think for me it mostly comes down to the performance (relative to other road cars on sale at the time it was released) and what it looks like. Supercars need to be fast and look it; that's it.
Edited by kambites on Thursday 26th March 07:49
Sitting in pub with fresh pint of quality ale, chatting up attractive lady.
Friend appears and says there is an interesting car in the car park and describes it.
1. Jump off bar stool without saying anything and rush out to investigate = Supercar
2. Make polite excuse to lady and leave pint to investigate =Supercarish
3 Continue to finish pint and glance out of pub window on the way for another= mmmmaybe
4.Continue evening as normal and glance across as you return to your car = Non Supercar
Friend appears and says there is an interesting car in the car park and describes it.
1. Jump off bar stool without saying anything and rush out to investigate = Supercar
2. Make polite excuse to lady and leave pint to investigate =Supercarish
3 Continue to finish pint and glance out of pub window on the way for another= mmmmaybe
4.Continue evening as normal and glance across as you return to your car = Non Supercar
TobyLaRohne said:
Bargain cheap offering is a Corvette C6 Z06
Handbuilt Engine from the racecar factory not the production line
7.0 V8
Able to stand toe to toe all day with any other supercar in its class
2 Door
2 Seats
7.0 sounds like the devil himself clearing his throat
Low enough to drive under car park barriers
The biggest negatives to discount it as a supercar is there is a low performance model with a chassis made of pig iron and not aluminium and it is too reliable for a supercar.
An awesome car and with real Le Mans pedigree. But you can buy as many as you want and it's loaded with enough medical kit for old people that like most other sportscars it's technically an self drive ambulance. Handbuilt Engine from the racecar factory not the production line
7.0 V8
Able to stand toe to toe all day with any other supercar in its class
2 Door
2 Seats
7.0 sounds like the devil himself clearing his throat
Low enough to drive under car park barriers
The biggest negatives to discount it as a supercar is there is a low performance model with a chassis made of pig iron and not aluminium and it is too reliable for a supercar.
1000TCR said:
MrBarry123 said:
emicen said:
LivewareProblem said:
There is no way the M135i is more "supercar" than a DBS
Revised formula would agree with you...[ Cylinders x Capacity x Exhausts ] / [ Driven Wheels x Doors x Wipers ]
| Car | Cylinders | Capacity | Exhausts | WWD | Doors | Wipers | Supercarness |
| Diablo | 12 | 6 | 4 | 2 | 2 | 1 | 72 |
| Lexus LFA | 10 | 4.8 | 3 | 2 | 2 | 1 | 36 |
| Carerra GT | 10 | 5.7 | 2 | 2 | 2 | 1 | 28.5 |
| Gallardo | 10 | 5 | 4 | 4 | 2 | 2 | 12.5 |
| DBS | 12 | 6 | 2 | 2 | 3 | 2 | 12 |
| M6 | 8 | 4.4 | 4 | 2 | 3 | 2 | 11.7 |
| 996 GT2 | 6 | 3.6 | 4 | 2 | 2 | 2 | 10.8 |
| M135i | 6 | 3 | 4 | 2 | 2 | 2 | 9 |
| M5 | 8 | 4.4 | 4 | 2 | 4 | 2 | 8.8 |
| 996 TT | 6 | 3.6 | 4 | 4 | 2 | 2 | 5.4 |
| GTR [R35] | 6 | 3.8 | 4 | 4 | 3 | 2 | 3.8 |
| M135i | 6 | 3 | 2 | 2 | 3 | 3 | 2 |
| Golf R | 4 | 2 | 4 | 4 | 3 | 3 | 0.9 |
| MINI Cooper S JCW [R56] | 4 | 1.6 | 2 | 2 | 3 | 3 | 0.7 |
| Golf R 5dr | 4 | 2 | 4 | 4 | 5 | 3 | 0.5 |
| Motorway Rep Express | 4 | 2 | 1 | 2 | 5 | 3 | 0.3 |
| Motorway Junior Rep | 4 | 1.6 | 1 | 2 | 5 | 3 | 0.2 |
In an ideal world you'd want to include an index linked purchase price to weed out the supercar killers. Plus it's poster ranking on Amazon or similar.
DonkeyApple said:
1000TCR said:
MrBarry123 said:
emicen said:
LivewareProblem said:
There is no way the M135i is more "supercar" than a DBS
Revised formula would agree with you...[ Cylinders x Capacity x Exhausts ] / [ Driven Wheels x Doors x Wipers ]
| Car | Cylinders | Capacity | Exhausts | WWD | Doors | Wipers | Supercarness |
| Diablo | 12 | 6 | 4 | 2 | 2 | 1 | 72 |
| Lexus LFA | 10 | 4.8 | 3 | 2 | 2 | 1 | 36 |
| Carerra GT | 10 | 5.7 | 2 | 2 | 2 | 1 | 28.5 |
| Gallardo | 10 | 5 | 4 | 4 | 2 | 2 | 12.5 |
| DBS | 12 | 6 | 2 | 2 | 3 | 2 | 12 |
| M6 | 8 | 4.4 | 4 | 2 | 3 | 2 | 11.7 |
| 996 GT2 | 6 | 3.6 | 4 | 2 | 2 | 2 | 10.8 |
| M135i | 6 | 3 | 4 | 2 | 2 | 2 | 9 |
| M5 | 8 | 4.4 | 4 | 2 | 4 | 2 | 8.8 |
| 996 TT | 6 | 3.6 | 4 | 4 | 2 | 2 | 5.4 |
| GTR [R35] | 6 | 3.8 | 4 | 4 | 3 | 2 | 3.8 |
| M135i | 6 | 3 | 2 | 2 | 3 | 3 | 2 |
| Golf R | 4 | 2 | 4 | 4 | 3 | 3 | 0.9 |
| MINI Cooper S JCW [R56] | 4 | 1.6 | 2 | 2 | 3 | 3 | 0.7 |
| Golf R 5dr | 4 | 2 | 4 | 4 | 5 | 3 | 0.5 |
| Motorway Rep Express | 4 | 2 | 1 | 2 | 5 | 3 | 0.3 |
| Motorway Junior Rep | 4 | 1.6 | 1 | 2 | 5 | 3 | 0.2 |
In an ideal world you'd want to include an index linked purchase price to weed out the supercar killers. Plus it's poster ranking on Amazon or similar.
Cars like the Elise or all the Caterfields may collect points here, but loose them on number of Cylinders and Capacity.
The 911 used to be a supercar. It had a huge rear wing, outrageous looks, strange engine technology/location, 200bhp; 3 times the average family Allegro of it's day, and a huge price to boot. They were rare outside of yuppie London. They were the bedroom poster of many a pre-pubescent boy alongside the Diablo, Countach, Testarossa.
They are, however, no longer a supercar. I include the old ones in that too. When Porsche went mass-production it took away all of the specialness of the 911. Climb in to 996 or 997 and it's no better or different than a well specced Audi or VW of it's time. Any non-petrolhead wouldn't be able to tell the difference between a £500k 2.7 RS and a £7k 996 C2 if they drove past them separately. The 911's ubiquity since 1997 has made it the most vanilla of sportscars. If the car doesn't turn heads it doesn't qualify as a supercar.
I think it's these reasons that kept air-cooled values artificially low for a long time. As the market readjusted a lot of speculators jumped on board and now the prices have gone too far north. Most petrolheads would probably turn their head to look at an air-cooled car these days whereas they would be less likely for a 996/7. That just makes them enthusiasts cars though, not supercars.
They are, however, no longer a supercar. I include the old ones in that too. When Porsche went mass-production it took away all of the specialness of the 911. Climb in to 996 or 997 and it's no better or different than a well specced Audi or VW of it's time. Any non-petrolhead wouldn't be able to tell the difference between a £500k 2.7 RS and a £7k 996 C2 if they drove past them separately. The 911's ubiquity since 1997 has made it the most vanilla of sportscars. If the car doesn't turn heads it doesn't qualify as a supercar.
I think it's these reasons that kept air-cooled values artificially low for a long time. As the market readjusted a lot of speculators jumped on board and now the prices have gone too far north. Most petrolheads would probably turn their head to look at an air-cooled car these days whereas they would be less likely for a 996/7. That just makes them enthusiasts cars though, not supercars.
DonkeyApple said:
Exhausts is a borderline out of date metric today. Now that manufacturers body kit bottom of the range diesels it's not a true indicator of specialness any more.
In an ideal world you'd want to include an index linked purchase price to weed out the supercar killers. Plus it's poster ranking on Amazon or similar.
If you counted the actual number of exhausts rather than tail finishers it would make more sense. All VW Golf have one exhaust! Very few modern vehicles have four pipes from the manifold.In an ideal world you'd want to include an index linked purchase price to weed out the supercar killers. Plus it's poster ranking on Amazon or similar.
1000TCR said:
DonkeyApple said:
1000TCR said:
MrBarry123 said:
emicen said:
LivewareProblem said:
There is no way the M135i is more "supercar" than a DBS
Revised formula would agree with you...[ Cylinders x Capacity x Exhausts ] / [ Driven Wheels x Doors x Wipers ]
| Car | Cylinders | Capacity | Exhausts | WWD | Doors | Wipers | Supercarness |
| Diablo | 12 | 6 | 4 | 2 | 2 | 1 | 72 |
| Lexus LFA | 10 | 4.8 | 3 | 2 | 2 | 1 | 36 |
| Carerra GT | 10 | 5.7 | 2 | 2 | 2 | 1 | 28.5 |
| Gallardo | 10 | 5 | 4 | 4 | 2 | 2 | 12.5 |
| DBS | 12 | 6 | 2 | 2 | 3 | 2 | 12 |
| M6 | 8 | 4.4 | 4 | 2 | 3 | 2 | 11.7 |
| 996 GT2 | 6 | 3.6 | 4 | 2 | 2 | 2 | 10.8 |
| M135i | 6 | 3 | 4 | 2 | 2 | 2 | 9 |
| M5 | 8 | 4.4 | 4 | 2 | 4 | 2 | 8.8 |
| 996 TT | 6 | 3.6 | 4 | 4 | 2 | 2 | 5.4 |
| GTR [R35] | 6 | 3.8 | 4 | 4 | 3 | 2 | 3.8 |
| M135i | 6 | 3 | 2 | 2 | 3 | 3 | 2 |
| Golf R | 4 | 2 | 4 | 4 | 3 | 3 | 0.9 |
| MINI Cooper S JCW [R56] | 4 | 1.6 | 2 | 2 | 3 | 3 | 0.7 |
| Golf R 5dr | 4 | 2 | 4 | 4 | 5 | 3 | 0.5 |
| Motorway Rep Express | 4 | 2 | 1 | 2 | 5 | 3 | 0.3 |
| Motorway Junior Rep | 4 | 1.6 | 1 | 2 | 5 | 3 | 0.2 |
In an ideal world you'd want to include an index linked purchase price to weed out the supercar killers. Plus it's poster ranking on Amazon or similar.
Cars like the Elise or all the Caterfields may collect points here, but loose them on number of Cylinders and Capacity.
Caterhams would get chopped on price. Generally if a car is easily affordable it should be punished and drop applicants into the supercar slayer bracket. You can't include cars that can be bought within a short time frame on a standard professional worker's salary. The easiest metric to obtain would be something like 5 times the average GP salary as that is public data.
M11 MFP said:
DonkeyApple said:
Exhausts is a borderline out of date metric today. Now that manufacturers body kit bottom of the range diesels it's not a true indicator of specialness any more.
In an ideal world you'd want to include an index linked purchase price to weed out the supercar killers. Plus it's poster ranking on Amazon or similar.
If you counted the actual number of exhausts rather than tail finishers it would make more sense. All VW Golf have one exhaust! Very few modern vehicles have four pipes from the manifold.In an ideal world you'd want to include an index linked purchase price to weed out the supercar killers. Plus it's poster ranking on Amazon or similar.
DonkeyApple said:
1000TCR said:
DonkeyApple said:
1000TCR said:
MrBarry123 said:
emicen said:
LivewareProblem said:
There is no way the M135i is more "supercar" than a DBS
Revised formula would agree with you...[ Cylinders x Capacity x Exhausts ] / [ Driven Wheels x Doors x Wipers ]
| Car | Cylinders | Capacity | Exhausts | WWD | Doors | Wipers | Supercarness |
| Diablo | 12 | 6 | 4 | 2 | 2 | 1 | 72 |
| Lexus LFA | 10 | 4.8 | 3 | 2 | 2 | 1 | 36 |
| Carerra GT | 10 | 5.7 | 2 | 2 | 2 | 1 | 28.5 |
| Gallardo | 10 | 5 | 4 | 4 | 2 | 2 | 12.5 |
| DBS | 12 | 6 | 2 | 2 | 3 | 2 | 12 |
| M6 | 8 | 4.4 | 4 | 2 | 3 | 2 | 11.7 |
| 996 GT2 | 6 | 3.6 | 4 | 2 | 2 | 2 | 10.8 |
| M135i | 6 | 3 | 4 | 2 | 2 | 2 | 9 |
| M5 | 8 | 4.4 | 4 | 2 | 4 | 2 | 8.8 |
| 996 TT | 6 | 3.6 | 4 | 4 | 2 | 2 | 5.4 |
| GTR [R35] | 6 | 3.8 | 4 | 4 | 3 | 2 | 3.8 |
| M135i | 6 | 3 | 2 | 2 | 3 | 3 | 2 |
| Golf R | 4 | 2 | 4 | 4 | 3 | 3 | 0.9 |
| MINI Cooper S JCW [R56] | 4 | 1.6 | 2 | 2 | 3 | 3 | 0.7 |
| Golf R 5dr | 4 | 2 | 4 | 4 | 5 | 3 | 0.5 |
| Motorway Rep Express | 4 | 2 | 1 | 2 | 5 | 3 | 0.3 |
| Motorway Junior Rep | 4 | 1.6 | 1 | 2 | 5 | 3 | 0.2 |
In an ideal world you'd want to include an index linked purchase price to weed out the supercar killers. Plus it's poster ranking on Amazon or similar.
Cars like the Elise or all the Caterfields may collect points here, but loose them on number of Cylinders and Capacity.
Caterhams would get chopped on price. Generally if a car is easily affordable it should be punished and drop applicants into the supercar slayer bracket. You can't include cars that can be bought within a short time frame on a standard professional worker's salary. The easiest metric to obtain would be something like 5 times the average GP salary as that is public data.
Caterham is chopped on zero doors; cant divide by zero, cant call it a supercar. As someone pointed out earlier, no doors or windscreen, its not a supercar, its a trackcar/racecar.
Giggle - my bid for supercarness 
Toyota MR2 V6
[ Cylinders x Capacity x Exhausts ] / [ Driven Wheels x Doors x Wipers ]
[ 6 * 3.5 * 2 ] / [ 2 * 2 * 2 ] = 42/8 = 5.25
Mid engined - Check
Tries to kill you - Check
Chunks of hand built metal - check.
Zero nanny electronics (ABS/TC/ESP/etc) - check.
Agreed on the exhausts metric - most cars really only have one, regardless of vanity tips.
How about 'does not have a cooking version sibling' ??
Toyota MR2 V6
[ Cylinders x Capacity x Exhausts ] / [ Driven Wheels x Doors x Wipers ]
[ 6 * 3.5 * 2 ] / [ 2 * 2 * 2 ] = 42/8 = 5.25
Mid engined - Check
Tries to kill you - Check
Chunks of hand built metal - check.
Zero nanny electronics (ABS/TC/ESP/etc) - check.
Agreed on the exhausts metric - most cars really only have one, regardless of vanity tips.
How about 'does not have a cooking version sibling' ??
BritishRacinGrin said:
MattHall91 said:
CGT and LFA are V10s but DEFINITELY supercars.
Hypercars in my book, along with other very low volume 300k GBP+ stuff (Koeniggzeggs, Paganis etc) Something like a Carrera GT or a LaFerrari doesn't become not a supercar because it's an amazingly excessive supercar that has earnt a higher name!
I like including height, now I think we're getting somewhere. But to be sure, we also need it to be very wide and menacing, so how about multiply by width^2 and divide by (height above 40 inches)^2?
Edited by McSam on Thursday 26th March 10:12
I'm still of the opinion that there can never be a definition of supercar, whether simplistic or formulaic, for the simple reason that its relative.
If you're a teenager in a rusty old Punto Mk2 / Clio / Corsa B etc, then a ten year old Impreza or Golf R32 etc is a supercar and a twenty year old Ferrari F355 is an unachievable dream car.
If you're fortunate enough to own an F355, you've probably realised that its no longer the supercar that it was when it was launched and you're sick of being out-dragged by RS Focuses (Focii?) and GolfRs, so your definition of "supercar" is now up to 458, Huracan, R8 V10 Plus, etc
Back onto the original topic of "cheapest supercar" - perhaps we've hit on the answer - its an oxymoron - as soon as any car that was once regarded as "super" becomes affordable, its supercar status is automatically forfeited
If you're a teenager in a rusty old Punto Mk2 / Clio / Corsa B etc, then a ten year old Impreza or Golf R32 etc is a supercar and a twenty year old Ferrari F355 is an unachievable dream car.
If you're fortunate enough to own an F355, you've probably realised that its no longer the supercar that it was when it was launched and you're sick of being out-dragged by RS Focuses (Focii?) and GolfRs, so your definition of "supercar" is now up to 458, Huracan, R8 V10 Plus, etc
Back onto the original topic of "cheapest supercar" - perhaps we've hit on the answer - its an oxymoron - as soon as any car that was once regarded as "super" becomes affordable, its supercar status is automatically forfeited
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