Cheapest Supercar

[kambites]

Still, I resupply the Esprit V8 as a suggestion. By that metric:

8*(3.5+2)/(1.15*2*1) = 19.1

Not bad for <£20k.

[DonkeyApple]

kambites said:

Still doesn't even remotely work for classics. For example, the 300SL gives:

(6*(3+0))/(1.3*2*2) = 3.4

And that was the fastest road car in the world at time of release; the thing even won Le Mans outright! It has far more claim to the name "supercar" than something like the Gallardo, let alone the M135i.



Any formula that's going to work needs some sort of scaling of top speed against the fastest other production car in the world at the time of release, IMO.

A ratio between the decade in question and capable speed above 100?

That would catapult things like the XKSS and Merc to where they ought to be?

[walm]

kambites said:

Still, I resupply the Esprit V8 as a suggestion. By that metric:

8*(3.5+2)/(1.15*2*1) = 19.1

Not bad for <£20k.

I think you still need to include the £5k in annual bills.
Total cost of ownership = NOT CHEAP!!

(Mind you, that might kill my Tuscan suggestion too.)

[LittleEnus]

Up until recently this was an easy one. Honda NSX. They are shooting up in value now though sadly.

[kambites]

walm said:

kambites said:

Still, I resupply the Esprit V8 as a suggestion. By that metric:

8*(3.5+2)/(1.15*2*1) = 19.1

Not bad for <£20k.

I think you still need to include the £5k in annual bills.
Total cost of ownership = NOT CHEAP!!

(Mind you, that might kill my Tuscan suggestion too.)

Ah but surely high running costs increase the supercarness as well as increasing the cost.

[McSam]

kambites said:

Any formula that's going to work needs some sort of scaling of top speed against the fastest other production car in the world at the time of release, IMO.

How about scaling power output against a benchmark "normal car"? I reckon power divided by the power of the contemporary Golf GTI would work. That makes a nice measure of how otherworldly it seems to the average car guy of the period

[kambites]

McSam said:

kambites said:

Any formula that's going to work needs some sort of scaling of top speed against the fastest other production car in the world at the time of release, IMO.

How about scaling power output against a benchmark "normal car"? I reckon power divided by the power of the contemporary Golf GTI would work. That makes a nice measure of how otherworldly it seems to the average car guy of the period

I don't think there was a Golf GTi in 1955 or whenever it was the 300SL came out.

The point above was valid though. Anything seriously quick from that sort of era is going to be so expensive as to be a bit irrelevant to this thread.

[1000TCR]

Ok, next try:

Given that the 300 SL is percieved as the first supercar, there is now a factor for the decade from 1950 on.

Vehicle	Cylinder	Capacity	Turbos/Superchargers	Height	Doors	Wipers	Decade	Supercarness
Bugatti Veyron	16	8	4	120	2	1	2005	14,5
Lamborghini Countach	12	4	0	107	2	1	1974	9,3
Mercedes 300 SL	6	3	0	130	2	2	1954	8,7
Diablo	12	6	0	110	2	1	1990	8,2
Ferrari F40	8	2,9	2	112	2	1	1987	4,7
Carerra GT	10	5,7	0	117	2	1	2003	4,6
Lexus LFA	10	4,8	0	122	2	1	2010	3,3
TVR Griffith	8	5	0	120	2	2	1991	2
Gallardo	10	5	0	118	2	2	2003	2
Lotus Exige S3	6	3,5	1	114	2	1	2012	1,9
DBS	12	6	0	127	3	2	2007	1,7
996 GT2	6	3,6	2	130	2	2	2001	1,3
M6	8	4,4	2	137	3	2	2012	1
Lotus Exige	4	1,8	1	120	2	1	2000	0,9
996 TT	6	3,6	2	130	2	3	2000	0,9
GTR [R35]	6	3,8	2	137	3	2	2007	0,7
M5	8	4,4	2	147	4	2	2011	0,7
Lotus Elise	4	1,8	0	114	2	1	1996	0,7
M135i	6	3	2	142	2	3	2012	0,6
Mazda MX5	4	1,8	0	124	2	2	1989	0,4
Golf R	4	2	1	145	3	3	2013	0,1
MINI Cooper S JCW [R56]	4	1,6	1	141	3	3	2008	0,1
Golf R 5dr	4	2	1	145	5	3	2013	0,1
Motorway Rep Express	4	2	0	145	5	3	2005	0,1
Motorway Junior Rep	4	1,6	0	145	5	3	2001	0,1

[TheHound]

It's rather amusing some folks on here actually believe that other people believe that the M135 is a Supercar. The people mentioning this are simply taking the piss out of Vlad, the only truly stupid/deluded fool that actually did believe it was a 'Junior Supercar' as well as also believing his camper van was the world's greatest vehicle EVER simply because he paid cash for it!

[MKnight702]

May I suggest swapping number of doors for "1 + number of seats over 3" (so as not to punish the Mclaren F1)

If you wanted you could also add "number of other engine specs in range" to further devalue hot versions of boggo shopping cars.

[andburg]

for me this is simple.

Must be Mid engined with 8 or more cylinders(V6+ twin turbo accepted) and only 2 doors


Answer is an Esprit V8

[Devil2575]

1000TCR said:

Ok, next try:

Given that the 300 SL is percieved as the first supercar, there is now a factor for the decade from 1950 on.

Vehicle	Cylinder	Capacity	Turbos/Superchargers	Height	Doors	Wipers	Decade	Supercarness
Bugatti Veyron	16	8	4	120	2	1	2005	14,5
Lamborghini Countach	12	4	0	107	2	1	1974	9,3
Mercedes 300 SL	6	3	0	130	2	2	1954	8,7
Diablo	12	6	0	110	2	1	1990	8,2
Ferrari F40	8	2,9	2	112	2	1	1987	4,7
Carerra GT	10	5,7	0	117	2	1	2003	4,6
Lexus LFA	10	4,8	0	122	2	1	2010	3,3
TVR Griffith	8	5	0	120	2	2	1991	2
Gallardo	10	5	0	118	2	2	2003	2
Lotus Exige S3	6	3,5	1	114	2	1	2012	1,9
DBS	12	6	0	127	3	2	2007	1,7
996 GT2	6	3,6	2	130	2	2	2001	1,3
M6	8	4,4	2	137	3	2	2012	1
Lotus Exige	4	1,8	1	120	2	1	2000	0,9
996 TT	6	3,6	2	130	2	3	2000	0,9
GTR [R35]	6	3,8	2	137	3	2	2007	0,7
M5	8	4,4	2	147	4	2	2011	0,7
Lotus Elise	4	1,8	0	114	2	1	1996	0,7
M135i	6	3	2	142	2	3	2012	0,6
Mazda MX5	4	1,8	0	124	2	2	1989	0,4
Golf R	4	2	1	145	3	3	2013	0,1
MINI Cooper S JCW [R56]	4	1,6	1	141	3	3	2008	0,1
Golf R 5dr	4	2	1	145	5	3	2013	0,1
Motorway Rep Express	4	2	0	145	5	3	2005	0,1
Motorway Junior Rep	4	1,6	0	145	5	3	2001	0,1

Does a table to calculate 'Supercarness' miss the point though?

Surely it's less tangible aspects that define a supercar. Mad head turning looks, stupidly impractical in every sense and annual running costs more than most cars cost to buy.

When I think Supercar I think Countach. A shool boys poster car that shouts "Look at me", very fast but zero practality.

A supercar is a car that you drive for no other purpose than to drive. You can't take it to the golf course because it has no room for your clubs, you can't take it on holiday because you can't get your cases in it. It's purpose is turn heads and show the world that you have so much money that you can buy and run such an expensive car that has no practical value. It also needs to be fast, or rather poeple need to think it's fast.

[mon the fish]

mwstewart said:

Any owners posting?

I wouldn't count my 550 Maranello as a supercar, it's a GT. So no, I'm not a supercar owner

[The Moose]

MKnight702 said:

May I suggest swapping number of doors for "1 + number of seats over 3" (so as not to punish the Mclaren F1)

If you wanted you could also add "number of other engine specs in range" to further devalue hot versions of boggo shopping cars.

But also potentially the Zonda?

[Pat H]

I'm going to nominate the early Turbo Esprit.


It was expensive, impractical, costly to run, temperamental, mid-engined, had stunning Giugiaro styling and it it's day was extremely quick.

It was produced by a company which was a real contender in F1 and it was the car of choice of James Bond.


There were two things which compromised the Esprit.

The first was that you could buy a normally aspirated version which was not much quicker that a 3 litre Capri.

The second was the fact that it had a chuffing four cylinder engine when all bona fide supercars had eight or twelve cylinders.



In fairness to Lotus, the Turbo Esprit was introduced just as the mad Turbo era of F1 was getting going. Back in 1981 a turbocharged car really was something to get excited about.

If you accept that the F308/328/348/355/360 lineage were supercars, then surely the Turbo Esprit was, given that it's performance always equalled or eclipsed the contemporary 308/328.



I owned a F328 and Turbo Esprit back to back. The Ferrari was nicer to drive, better built, prettier to look at and had that shrieking V8.

The Esprit was more involving, more focused, more brutal. All snarling induction, gurgling wastegate and spitting and banging. And it stopped people in their tracks in a way that the F328 simply never did. I have never driven anything which grabbed attention like the Esprit. Positive attention, too.

And you can buy a good one for £15,000. Which is about a quarter of what a comparable F308 would cost.

Personally, I don't think that any Esprit short of a V8 can confidently be considered a supercar. But the early Turbos are as near as makes no difference.

Looky here

[BigBen]

The Moose said:

MKnight702 said:

May I suggest swapping number of doors for "1 + number of seats over 3" (so as not to punish the Mclaren F1)

If you wanted you could also add "number of other engine specs in range" to further devalue hot versions of boggo shopping cars.

But also potentially the Zonda?

Perhaps number of smaller engines in the range or something like that. For instance my SL55 AMG has 500 BHP, will do 200mph and according to Evo magazine is "as fast as a Murcialago (SP?)" However you can get a more or less similar looking car with a much smaller less powerful six cylinder engine which removes it from any sniff of being a supercar.

Ben

[mwstewart]

mon the fish said:

I wouldn't count my 550 Maranello as a supercar, it's a GT. So no, I'm not a supercar owner

Considerably more so than a lot of the stuff suggested!

[MH]

I was allowed in the Goodwood FoS "Supercar" carpark (so that's official ) last year in my XKR and you can pick them up for low to mid 20's now.

[IATM]

MattHall91 said:

Why am I seeing 135s and 335ds being mentioned? And even an Impreza!

Supercar:

£80k+ when new
>400bhp
>175mph
Looks special
Not mass produced by a volume manufacturer.

My 2 cents.

Shocked myself; if that posts mentioning m135s and golf r's as super cars. If someone said to me they drove a supercar and I asked what it was and they said one of those cars they would see my laughing on the floor quite hard.

I think your definition overall works. Has to be a head turner without fail.

[ChasW]

pablo said:

Strawman said:

Personally I don't think there is any simple formula you can apply to decide what is and isn't a supercar.

Would a 9 year old want a poster of it on their bedroom wall?

DBS?
Golf R?

Herein lies the answer. Surely it's about the poster appeal. If it could never make it onto a full size poster it cannot qualify. Again this is subjective but means that this category of car is defined by the likes of a Countach, original 911 Turbo, McLaren, GT40 ie cars that you dreamed about as a boy. When I was that age unless you lived in London or went a motor show it would be highly unlikely you'd ever see a super car in the flesh. They were rare and hence you could only dream about them. My personal favourite was the Espada.

What makes it difficult to define now is that they are not that rare anymore. I have seen Bugattis outside Claridges and plenty of Lambos at the flash hotel at the bottom of Park Lane. The car that really caught my eye recently was an Aerial Atom on the A316, mental.