Cheapest Supercar
Discussion
ILoveMondeo said:
Indeed, I'm probably inclined to say they are very fancy "sports cars"... but by that rationale a 458 is a sports car and the la ferrari is the super, but that's a hyper... oh christ. I dont care any more!
Trying to boil down what a "super car" is, is bloody hard.
I dont think it's just performance.
Badge
Exclusivity (translation... Price = expensive)
Pretty quick, but we all know with a fraction of the money you can get a skyline that'll smash it.
pointy looking
so a 3200 is just a nice GT that has nose-dived in value, not a super car.
some Ferrari examples of my thinking
older models = classics, prices all over the place based on condition/mileage/provenance/etc
355/360... was super, now a classic/modern-classic, see above
430 borderline super/modern-classic
458 Super
Enzo / La Ferrari = Hyper
I think that's about spot on. Personally, I don't like the hypercar tag as it only exists because supercar has started to be used to market mass produced, generic road cars. Trying to boil down what a "super car" is, is bloody hard.
I dont think it's just performance.
Badge
Exclusivity (translation... Price = expensive)
Pretty quick, but we all know with a fraction of the money you can get a skyline that'll smash it.
pointy looking
so a 3200 is just a nice GT that has nose-dived in value, not a super car.
some Ferrari examples of my thinking
older models = classics, prices all over the place based on condition/mileage/provenance/etc
355/360... was super, now a classic/modern-classic, see above
430 borderline super/modern-classic
458 Super
Enzo / La Ferrari = Hyper
If you bin the term hypercar and call those cars supercars then instantly you can see that a 3200, a 135i or any of the production line cars are clearly not supercars.
The couple of metrics I would throw in are that to be a supercar it can't just be built on the same massive assembly line as normal cars. There needs to be an element of the 'artisan's craft' about it. Plus it cannot be full of heavy electric motors to move a seat etc as that is just taking the piss. And it has to have instant poster appeal.
Caterham Superlight/R300/etc etc
Epic levels of perfrmance, grip and handling, incredible driving sensation when your arse is an inch or two off the ground, even in fairly average hands can turn in impressive lap times on a track and the most fun you can have in a car.
Doesnt have the kudos like a Ferrari or a Lamborghini and has a bit of a kit car appearance but then they are for drivers not for poseurs. Whenever I see one on the open road I smile and think "yeah you get it..."
Epic levels of perfrmance, grip and handling, incredible driving sensation when your arse is an inch or two off the ground, even in fairly average hands can turn in impressive lap times on a track and the most fun you can have in a car.
Doesnt have the kudos like a Ferrari or a Lamborghini and has a bit of a kit car appearance but then they are for drivers not for poseurs. Whenever I see one on the open road I smile and think "yeah you get it..."
Not sure about the "engine in the middle" requirement, but I know what you mean. I certainly wouldn't class a Scaglietti, FF or 599 as a "non-supercar", just because the engine is in front of the occupants
Its also definitely not about performance. My current Fiat Coupe is a fair bit faster than the F355 I was lucky enough to own a decade ago, but I know which one I'd rather have now.... The current crop of hot hatches would walk all over a so-called supercar from 15-20 years ago, but I'd have a 308 over a Focus RS any day
I reckon its the "wow-factor" - the ability to turn heads and the exclusivity factor (which BTW, I feel means that a car can go from Supercar to non-supercar, based on sales volume - a 911 is clearly a super car, but its omni-presence means its accepted as merely a fast car - its simply not rare enough). On this basis, I'd say that something like a Ferrari 348 is more likely to be regarded as a supercar (at least by non PH-types) than a 911, which is daft when the actual driving experience is taken into account.
As for Maserati 3200GTs - they definitely have some supercar genes, and they have the exclusivity. They have the performance and (to a degree) the head-turning capacity. I had two on loan while my 355 was in for its many repairs
and they were an epic drive, at least in a straight line, but I think they've now dropped off the radar of supercar status.
So - for me, the cheapest proper supercars would be:-
Lotus Esprit
Some wilder TVRs (Cerb, Tuscan)
Aston DB9
And a couple of wildcards...
Honda NSX
Noble
Its also definitely not about performance. My current Fiat Coupe is a fair bit faster than the F355 I was lucky enough to own a decade ago, but I know which one I'd rather have now.... The current crop of hot hatches would walk all over a so-called supercar from 15-20 years ago, but I'd have a 308 over a Focus RS any day
I reckon its the "wow-factor" - the ability to turn heads and the exclusivity factor (which BTW, I feel means that a car can go from Supercar to non-supercar, based on sales volume - a 911 is clearly a super car, but its omni-presence means its accepted as merely a fast car - its simply not rare enough). On this basis, I'd say that something like a Ferrari 348 is more likely to be regarded as a supercar (at least by non PH-types) than a 911, which is daft when the actual driving experience is taken into account.
As for Maserati 3200GTs - they definitely have some supercar genes, and they have the exclusivity. They have the performance and (to a degree) the head-turning capacity. I had two on loan while my 355 was in for its many repairs
and they were an epic drive, at least in a straight line, but I think they've now dropped off the radar of supercar status.So - for me, the cheapest proper supercars would be:-
Lotus Esprit
Some wilder TVRs (Cerb, Tuscan)
Aston DB9
And a couple of wildcards...
Honda NSX
Noble
DonkeyApple said:
cerb4.5lee said:
Vlad always thought the M135i was a junior supercar so I would tend to agree, he also had a 335d so really the thread should end here!
Does this also mean that a camper van is also a super car if you mention on every thread that you paid for it with cash?
I did enjoy the money debates that he used to get into! zedx19 said:
Define "Supercar".
The inherent supercarness of any car can be defined with one simple formula. Its the same formula that explained why your mate's Saxo was so much cooler than your dad's Montego estate:[ Cylinders x Exhaust Pipes ] / [ Doors x Wipers ]
| Vehicle | Cylinders | Exhausts | Doors | Wipers | Supercarness |
| Diablo | 12 | 4 | 2 | 1 | 24.0 |
| Gallardo | 8 | 4 | 2 | 2 | 8.0 |
| M135i | 6 | 4 | 2 | 2 | 6.0 |
| M6 | 8 | 4 | 3 | 2 | 5.3 |
| M5 | 8 | 4 | 4 | 2 | 4.0 |
| DBS | 12 | 2 | 3 | 2 | 4.0 |
| Golf R | 4 | 4 | 3 | 3 | 1.8 |
| Golf R 5dr | 4 | 4 | 5 | 3 | 1.1 |
On the basis of the above, for me "Supercar" [over sports or GT], starts at 8.0 and goes up.
mwstewart said:
The Moose said:
I guess some people wouldn't call the Gallardo a supercar. I guess that's just it - everyone defines these things differently.
I could understand that being said about an R8, but certainly not a Gallardo.Not being argumentative - curious really!
James May argued that the Mercedes 300SL (Gullwing) was the first supercar; produced in small numbers, expensive, new technology (fuel injection), big advance on performance compared to a sports car, not very practical (two seats, small boot), distinctive design. Nowadays 150mph is hot hatch territory but the 300SL is still a stunning looking design.
The Lotus Esprit is almost a supercar IMO but many of the models produced didn't have the performance to leave a contemporary sports car for dead, some like the turbo or the V8 were faster than the average fast car but the lesser models look very similar which sort of muddies the water around them.
The Lotus Esprit is almost a supercar IMO but many of the models produced didn't have the performance to leave a contemporary sports car for dead, some like the turbo or the V8 were faster than the average fast car but the lesser models look very similar which sort of muddies the water around them.
super cars more than just about performance and rarity, they also have to be exotic and tug at heart strings, they should be bought from passion with little to no common sense involved
For me cars that are not super cars
911 (most)
Atom
GT-R
TVR
M / RS / AMG models
Defiantly no hot or hyper hatches
Nothing FWD
Nothing Diesel
Cars that probably are
TVR Speed 12
AMG SL65 Black
911 GT2/ GT3 RS
Ferrari 328
For me cars that are not super cars
911 (most)
Atom
GT-R
TVR
M / RS / AMG models
Defiantly no hot or hyper hatches
Nothing FWD
Nothing Diesel
Cars that probably are
TVR Speed 12
AMG SL65 Black
911 GT2/ GT3 RS
Ferrari 328
Edited by Dave Hedgehog on Wednesday 25th March 10:04
IN51GHT said:
Saw that on FChat...would make a decent track car.I think you have to have:
Very close to 4.0sec 0-60.
Sound that makes the hairs on the back of your neck stand up.
Found on a poster on your wall if you were 14 again.
People come to talk to you about it when you are parked up.
Rare.
So the answer is probably Tuscan.
GTR too ugly.
M-power and RS4s are too common and too stealth.
Supercharged Exige is possible but just not that super, somehow.
911 too common.
Very close to 4.0sec 0-60.
Sound that makes the hairs on the back of your neck stand up.
Found on a poster on your wall if you were 14 again.
People come to talk to you about it when you are parked up.
Rare.
So the answer is probably Tuscan.
GTR too ugly.
M-power and RS4s are too common and too stealth.
Supercharged Exige is possible but just not that super, somehow.
911 too common.
IN51GHT said:
Cheap to buy but expensive to put back into condition, looks like it's been used extensively on track!Gassing Station | General Gassing | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff