Cheapest Supercar

[DonkeyApple]

The Moose said:

mwstewart said:

The Moose said:

I guess some people wouldn't call the Gallardo a supercar. I guess that's just it - everyone defines these things differently.

I could understand that being said about an R8, but certainly not a Gallardo.

Why's that?

Not being argumentative - curious really!

It's obviously subjective but I think of cars like the Gallardo as being right on the divide.

They clearly have supercar looks and performance and I feel it is neither right nor wrong to argue either way but for my tuppence I do not view the standard Gallardo as a supercar yet I do some of the specials. It's a fine line.

The Gallardo to all intents and purposes mass produced, mostly by robots and is loaded with weight adding luxuries like electric seats etc bit is also an immensely practical car.

Take one of the specials, it is limited in numbers so has genuine rarity. You can't just phone up and have one bought and delivered same day. It has all the little luxuries stripped out so is more basic. It is less practical.

I also think that where someone lives has a strong bearing. For example, someone in Norfolk would probably consider an Allegro to be a supercar while someone living in central London who sees 911's and Gallardos all day long has long since stopped thinking they are anything special at all.

[DonkeyApple]

cerb4.5lee said:

DonkeyApple said:

cerb4.5lee said:

Vlad always thought the M135i was a junior supercar so I would tend to agree, he also had a 335d so really the thread should end here!

Does this also mean that a camper van is also a super car if you mention on every thread that you paid for it with cash?

I did enjoy the money debates that he used to get into!

Were they debates? I was sure they were statements.

Poor lad went a bit mental with his lump sum pension drawdown and confused it with being loaded.

[The Moose]

DonkeyApple said:

The Moose said:

mwstewart said:

The Moose said:

I guess some people wouldn't call the Gallardo a supercar. I guess that's just it - everyone defines these things differently.

I could understand that being said about an R8, but certainly not a Gallardo.

Why's that?

Not being argumentative - curious really!

It's obviously subjective but I think of cars like the Gallardo as being right on the divide.

They clearly have supercar looks and performance and I feel it is neither right nor wrong to argue either way but for my tuppence I do not view the standard Gallardo as a supercar yet I do some of the specials. It's a fine line.

The Gallardo to all intents and purposes mass produced, mostly by robots and is loaded with weight adding luxuries like electric seats etc bit is also an immensely practical car.

Take one of the specials, it is limited in numbers so has genuine rarity. You can't just phone up and have one bought and delivered same day. It has all the little luxuries stripped out so is more basic. It is less practical.

I also think that where someone lives has a strong bearing. For example, someone in Norfolk would probably consider an Allegro to be a supercar while someone living in central London who sees 911's and Gallardos all day long has long since stopped thinking they are anything special at all.

In my opinion, it is on the cusp. I do like the Spyder, again, however I'm not convinced it's entirely a supercar.

[mwstewart]

I think we need to take the mass produced thing out of the picture; what niche manufacturer can realisitally exist now without shifting what would now be considered a large volume of cars in comparison to the '80's or even '90's?

[scarecrow1966]

Speed cannot come into it, my bosses Fiat Ducato van on a Friday afternoon will beat most things A to B.
It must be about headturning looks so if the lowest priced car with headturning looks is the question then Nissan 300zx and Mitsubishi 3000 GTO are both valid. Young boys will look because of the shape and pistonheaders will look to see if they make it to the end of the road.

[McSam]

emicen said:

The inherent supercarness of any car can be defined with one simple formula. Its the same formula that explained why your mate's Saxo was so much cooler than your dad's Montego estate:

[ Cylinders x Exhaust Pipes ] / [ Doors x Wipers ]

Vehicle	Cylinders	Exhausts	Doors	Wipers	Supercarness
Diablo	12	4	2	1	24.0
Gallardo	8	4	2	2	8.0
M135i	6	4	2	2	6.0
M6	8	4	3	2	5.3
M5	8	4	4	2	4.0
DBS	12	2	3	2	4.0
Golf R	4	4	3	3	1.8
Golf R 5dr	4	4	5	3	1.1

On the basis of the above, for me "Supercar" [over sports or GT], starts at 8.0 and goes up.

I rather like this - though the Gallardo is a V10 and I'd probably swap doors for seats.

I'm always amazed how much the definition of "supercar" varies, even here. It seems totally ridiculous to call something like a GT-R a supercar. In the original sense of the word, it simply isn't.

Two seats, ideally mid-engined but in exceptional cases (Bristol Fighter?) front is acceptable, at least eight cylinders, styled purely for styling with no regard for practicality, and ideally a power output that was superlative for its time.

This is a really easy definition that ignores what we think about "driving experience", "purity" or any stuff that the average ten-year-old boy doesn't give a stuff about. What matters is whether it exists purely to be spectacular.

[Nigel_O]

emicen said:

[ Cylinders x Exhaust Pipes ] / [ Doors x Wipers ]

Vehicle	Cylinders	Exhausts	Doors	Wipers	Supercarness
Diablo	12	4	2	1	24.0
Gallardo	8	4	2	2	8.0
M135i	6	4	2	2	6.0
M6	8	4	3	2	5.3
M5	8	4	4	2	4.0
DBS	12	2	3	2	4.0
Golf R	4	4	3	3	1.8
Golf R 5dr	4	4	5	3	1.1

Very good, but falls over as soon as you factor in something with no doors or windscreen....

[McSam]

That's fine though, as nothing without any doors or a windscreen is a supercar. It falls into "track day special" or "racing car".

[DonkeyApple]

mwstewart said:

I think we need to take the mass produced thing out of the picture; what niche manufacturer can realisitally exist now without shifting what would now be considered a large volume of cars in comparison to the '80's or even '90's?

I agree with the sentiment but within reason. It takes quite a specialist firm today to be able to exist on selling just a few cars a year, I agree.

But at the same time, banging out 10,000 robot constructed, formulaic cars on a production line year in year out can never a supercar make. It has to be distinct from a VW diesel utility box etc. there needs to be a specialness to it.

[castex]

emicen's excellent formula said:

[ Cylinders x Exhaust Pipes ] / [ Doors x Wipers ]

Vehicle	Cylinders	Exhausts	Doors	Wipers	Supercarness
365 Boxer	12	6	2	1	36.0
Diablo	12	4	2	1	24.0
Gallardo	8	4	2	2	8.0
M135i	6	4	2	2	6.0
M6	8	4	3	2	5.3
M5	8	4	4	2	4.0
DBS	12	2	3	2	4.0
Golf R	4	4	3	3	1.8
Golf R 5dr	4	4	5	3	1.1

Boxer wins.

[emicen]

Nigel_O said:

emicen said:

[ Cylinders x Exhaust Pipes ] / [ Doors x Wipers ]

Vehicle	Cylinders	Exhausts	Doors	Wipers	Supercarness
Diablo	12	4	2	1	24.0
Gallardo	10	4	2	2	10.0
M135i	6	4	2	2	6.0
M6	8	4	3	2	5.3
M5	8	4	4	2	4.0
DBS	12	2	3	2	4.0
Golf R	4	4	3	3	1.8
Golf R 5dr	4	4	5	3	1.1

Very good, but falls over as soon as you factor in something with no doors or windscreen....

I'd say it accounts for it perfectly. As McSam says, as soon as it's got no doors, it's a track special or racecar. You can't divide by zero, so you can't call it a Supercar.

Equally, the lack of cylinders and exhaust pipes precludes any electric car from really being a true Supercar.

[PanzerCommander]

emicen said:

The inherent supercarness of any car can be defined with one simple formula. Its the same formula that explained why your mate's Saxo was so much cooler than your dad's Montego estate:

[ Cylinders x Exhaust Pipes ] / [ Doors x Wipers ]

Vehicle	Cylinders	Exhausts	Doors	Wipers	Supercarness
Diablo	12	4	2	1	24.0
Gallardo	8	4	2	2	8.0
M135i	6	4	2	2	6.0
M6	8	4	3	2	5.3
M5	8	4	4	2	4.0
DBS	12	2	3	2	4.0
Golf R	4	4	3	3	1.8
Golf R 5dr	4	4	5	3	1.1

On the basis of the above, for me "Supercar" [over sports or GT], starts at 8.0 and goes up.

Almost works but it needs an 'if' statement before it, lets call the table Evaluate_Super_Carness, needs to be this:

if body style is not Coupe or hatchback or saloon or estate or wagon or van or tank then

Evaluate_Super_Carness

else

Status equals not a super car by any stretch

end if;

That filters out anything that isn't a super car by definition because unless it is purpose built as a super car from the ground up a vehicle cannot be any form of super car EVER. I could make an old Jaguar coupe have the same score as the Diablo just by fitting a set of back boxes with twin tail pipes on each side rather than singles, it then scores the same.

[gavsdavs]

emicen said:

The inherent supercarness of any car can be defined with one simple formula. Its the same formula that explained why your mate's Saxo was so much cooler than your dad's Montego estate:

[ Cylinders x Exhaust Pipes ] / [ Doors x Wipers ]

Vehicle	Cylinders	Exhausts	Doors	Wipers	Supercarness
Diablo	12	4	2	1	24.0
Gallardo	8	4	2	2	8.0
M135i	6	4	2	2	6.0
M6	8	4	3	2	5.3
M5	8	4	4	2	4.0
DBS	12	2	3	2	4.0
Golf R	4	4	3	3	1.8
Golf R 5dr	4	4	5	3	1.1

On the basis of the above, for me "Supercar" [over sports or GT], starts at 8.0 and goes up.

Needs some bhp/ton in there i feel.

[Yiliterate]

emicen said:

The inherent supercarness of any car can be defined with one simple formula. Its the same formula that explained why your mate's Saxo was so much cooler than your dad's Montego estate:

[ Cylinders x Exhaust Pipes ] / [ Doors x Wipers ]

Vehicle	Cylinders	Exhausts	Doors	Wipers	Supercarness
Diablo	12	4	2	1	24.0
Gallardo	8	4	2	2	8.0
M135i	6	4	2	2	6.0
M6	8	4	3	2	5.3
M5	8	4	4	2	4.0
DBS	12	2	3	2	4.0
Golf R	4	4	3	3	1.8
Golf R 5dr	4	4	5	3	1.1

On the basis of the above, for me "Supercar" [over sports or GT], starts at 8.0 and goes up.

It is now clear what the cheapest supercar is:



Based on the above table, this is very definitely a supercar (note; there is no rear wiper, just to put it beyond doubt) and I would estimate its value to be in the region of £125.00.

[g7jhp]

Supercar

1. Exotic shape: Should have an exotic shape (I'd rule out saloons, hatchbacks and estates)
2. Marque - Should be from a know marque or challenger
3. Speed - Should have been quick/set benchmarks in it's day
4. Price - Expensive to buy and maintain

AC Cobra
Audi R8 (In two minds on the R8 as it's an Audi and easy to drive)
BMW M1, BMW i8
Bugatti Veyron
De Tomaso Pantera
Dodge Viper
Ferrari
Ford GT40
Honda NSX
Jaguar XJ220
Koenigsegg
Lambroghini
Lotus (Esprit)
Maserati
McLaren
Mercedes - SLR McLaren, SLS
Porsche - (911 turbo, 911 GT3. 911 GT2, 959, 917, 918)
Spyker

Sure I'd missed a few!

[McSam]

I think we definitely need an IF statement before entering the table..

[JCB123]

£ / lb, taking into account looks, speed, rarity, noise, road presence etc - surely it has to be a Tuscan?!

[The Moose]

g7jhp said:

Supercar

1. Exotic shape: Should have an exotic shape (I'd rule out saloons, hatchbacks and estates)
2. Marque - Should be from a know marque or challenger
3. Speed - Should have been quick/set benchmarks in it's day
4. Price - Expensive to buy and maintain

AC Cobra
Audi R8 (In two minds on the R8 as it's an Audi and easy to drive)
BMW M1, BMW i8
Bugatti Veyron
De Tomaso Pantera
Dodge Viper
Ferrari
Ford GT40
Honda NSX
Jaguar XJ220
Koenigsegg
Lambroghini
Lotus (Esprit)
Maserati
McLaren
Mercedes - SLR McLaren, SLS
Porsche - (911 turbo, 911 GT3. 911 GT2, 959, 917, 918)
Spyker

Sure I'd missed a few!

Coming back to the 911, is a turbo a supercar?

[Steamer]

bristolracer said:

Porsche 928

I was pondering this - pound for pound (ignoring running cost etc).

Although they are super, I'd say more 'Super GT'

[MKnight702]

Well the Ultima GTR fulfills pretty much all criteria I can think of for a supercar (and scores 16.0 on the supercar scale) so that has to be a contender.

Any saloon, hatchback or coupe, 2+2 or 4 seater is automatically excluded, sorry BMW M and Nissan GT-R fans. Quick point to point certainly (quicker than a Ferrari 328, but then so are most modern hot hatches) but in no way a supercar.