RE: New Jaguar XF - official
Discussion
People asking for bravery and knocking a unified brand design clearly don't understand the sector. It's like asking Apple to make a 64GB model look different from a 128GB one... it's not what people want, are told to want, or have been made to think they want and it has no benefit on sales whatsoever. Making the car look different from the rest of the range would be like releasing a bright orange, star shaped iPhone. It would just confuse people towards it as a product, and hence towards the brand, and complicate their decision to purchase, likely leading them elsewhere to a product they can fathom and 'connect' with.
They want a product which makes them feel good, and is instantly recognisable as a powerful brand. A brand which every other person, no matter what their tastes or knowledge of the sector are, will recognise and realise to be a premium, aspirational, maybe even superior one.
Asking them to be 'braver' or more individual given the fact there is no doubt it looks vastly different from it's core rivals in an extremely competitive marketplace, when it looks like THAT, is madness.
If anyone can actually define what these touches are which would enhance the car but actually be viable for a mass produced, middle market global product I'd love to hear them.
They want a product which makes them feel good, and is instantly recognisable as a powerful brand. A brand which every other person, no matter what their tastes or knowledge of the sector are, will recognise and realise to be a premium, aspirational, maybe even superior one.
Asking them to be 'braver' or more individual given the fact there is no doubt it looks vastly different from it's core rivals in an extremely competitive marketplace, when it looks like THAT, is madness.
If anyone can actually define what these touches are which would enhance the car but actually be viable for a mass produced, middle market global product I'd love to hear them.
Edited by Repent on Wednesday 25th March 13:16
The engine options seem to have missed out the mid-range that us company car drivers usually target.
"2.0 diesel options are 163bhp or 180bhp." Well the outgoing model uses a 2.2 4-pot offering 165bhp or 200bhp.
Now the jump is too big up to the 3.0litre twin turbo.
I love the styling, but need the correct engine option. I tow, so 200bhp is the sweet spot for me.
Current company car is Merc E250CDI 204bhp. Also on my shopping list is a 525d 217bhp IIRC.
Oh, and a sportbrake would be good at launch as I have a dog & lots of luggage.
"2.0 diesel options are 163bhp or 180bhp." Well the outgoing model uses a 2.2 4-pot offering 165bhp or 200bhp.
Now the jump is too big up to the 3.0litre twin turbo.
I love the styling, but need the correct engine option. I tow, so 200bhp is the sweet spot for me.
Current company car is Merc E250CDI 204bhp. Also on my shopping list is a 525d 217bhp IIRC.
Oh, and a sportbrake would be good at launch as I have a dog & lots of luggage.
Repent said:
People asking for bravery and knocking a unified brand design clearly don't understand the sector. It's like asking Apple to make a 64GB model look different from a 128GB one... it's not what people want, are told to want, or have been made to think they want and it has no benefit on sales whatsoever. Making the car look different from the rest of the range would be like releasing a bright orange, star shaped iPhone. It would just confuse people towards it as a product, and hence towards the brand, and complicate their decision to purchase, likely leading them elsewhere to a product they can fathom and 'connect' with.
They want a product which makes them feel good, and is instantly recognisable as a powerful brand. A brand which every other person, no matter what their tastes or knowledge of the sector are, will recognise and realise to be a premium, aspirational, maybe even superior one.
Arrr yes, a product for the......... Sheople?They want a product which makes them feel good, and is instantly recognisable as a powerful brand. A brand which every other person, no matter what their tastes or knowledge of the sector are, will recognise and realise to be a premium, aspirational, maybe even superior one.
Edited by Repent on Wednesday 25th March 13:16
Jarcy said:
The engine options seem to have missed out the mid-range that us company car drivers usually target.
"2.0 diesel options are 163bhp or 180bhp." Well the outgoing model uses a 2.2 4-pot offering 165bhp or 200bhp.
Now the jump is too big up to the 3.0litre twin turbo.
I love the styling, but need the correct engine option. I tow, so 200bhp is the sweet spot for me.
Current company car is Merc E250CDI 204bhp. Also on my shopping list is a 525d 217bhp IIRC.
Oh, and a sportbrake would be good at launch as I have a dog & lots of luggage.
Given this car is lighter I'd wager the bhp/tonne is similar if not better."2.0 diesel options are 163bhp or 180bhp." Well the outgoing model uses a 2.2 4-pot offering 165bhp or 200bhp.
Now the jump is too big up to the 3.0litre twin turbo.
I love the styling, but need the correct engine option. I tow, so 200bhp is the sweet spot for me.
Current company car is Merc E250CDI 204bhp. Also on my shopping list is a 525d 217bhp IIRC.
Oh, and a sportbrake would be good at launch as I have a dog & lots of luggage.
And surely it's torque you need for towing?
FWDRacer said:
Arrr yes, a product for the......... Sheople?
No that's just silly. All mass market products could be defined as that, unless all your clothes are from a vintage reclamation store, your furniture is all hand made and you farm your own produce that term can be shot at anyone for anything. If you want something individual, you wouldn't be looking at anything in this market, it's not as obvious as it used to be but these are utility products. It's only because the market is so huge and competitive and the products have become so good we have the right to think they should be anything more than that, and as enthusiasts being drawn towards very specific and personal qualities of a car its easy to assume they can be provided by cars like this. They can't.
They have to appeal to the masses, but that doesnt make you a sheep for buying it.
Repent said:
FWDRacer said:
Arrr yes, a product for the......... Sheople?
No that's just silly. All mass market products could be defined as that, unless all your clothes are from a vintage reclamation store, your furniture is all hand made and you farm your own produce that term can be shot at anyone for anything. If you want something individual, you wouldn't be looking at anything in this market, it's not as obvious as it used to be but these are utility products. It's only because the market is so huge and competitive and the products have become so good we have the right to think they should be anything more than that, and as enthusiasts being drawn towards very specific and personal qualities of a car its easy to assume they can be provided by cars like this. They can't.
They have to appeal to the masses, but that doesnt make you a sheep for buying it.
I would have loved Jaguar to be a braver too, but that is not the reality of this exec market. The biggest issue that Jaguar have at the moment is brand recognition, the rear view mirror test. All Audi, BMW, Mercedes products pass that test to car fans and non-car fans alike and this is where Jaguar struggles. To succeed in this market unfortunately, you need the continuous styling throughout your model range.
At least F-Pace will be different!
Regards,
MyCC.
Repent said:
People asking for bravery and knocking a unified brand design clearly don't understand the sector. It's like asking Apple to make a 64GB model look different from a 128GB one... it's not what people want, are told to want, or have been made to think they want and it has no benefit on sales whatsoever. Making the car look different from the rest of the range would be like releasing a bright orange, star shaped iPhone. It would just confuse people towards it as a product, and hence towards the brand, and complicate their decision to purchase, likely leading them elsewhere to a product they can fathom and 'connect' with.
They want a product which makes them feel good, and is instantly recognisable as a powerful brand. A brand which every other person, no matter what their tastes or knowledge of the sector are, will recognise and realise to be a premium, aspirational, maybe even superior one.
Asking them to be 'braver' or more individual given the fact there is no doubt it looks vastly different from it's core rivals in an extremely competitive marketplace, when it looks like THAT, is madness.
If anyone can actually define what these touches are which would enhance the car but actually be viable for a mass produced, middle market global product I'd love to hear them.
You're right about the role of the brand.They want a product which makes them feel good, and is instantly recognisable as a powerful brand. A brand which every other person, no matter what their tastes or knowledge of the sector are, will recognise and realise to be a premium, aspirational, maybe even superior one.
Asking them to be 'braver' or more individual given the fact there is no doubt it looks vastly different from it's core rivals in an extremely competitive marketplace, when it looks like THAT, is madness.
If anyone can actually define what these touches are which would enhance the car but actually be viable for a mass produced, middle market global product I'd love to hear them.
Edited by Repent on Wednesday 25th March 13:16
It's a tricky thing to comment the decisions of a major manufacturer, isn't it. The manufacturer employs lots of skilled and informed people... and here we all are in the proverbial armchair.
I don't believe that PH comments here are asking for Jaguar to pursue Spyker levels of distinction in design.
I would ask, however, if the new XF could have been a more compelling proposition with a design that is less like a big twin of the XE. (Less of the Russian nesting doll syndrome that some here are citing)
To achieve this distinction, I would ask if we cannot examine more closely the most discriminating attribute of the XF: its length. Can we accentuate this?
Again, with apologies to the skilled and informed at Jaguar, I would ask if the beltline could be lowered. If we reduce the distance, or perceived distance between the beltline and the body base line, the car acquires a long and low appearance.
This appearance is consistent with design cues of the luxury / sport category and has been used by Jaguar saloons in the past. It would result in a new XF that is both familiar alongside the XE and a distinct step up from that car.
Goatex said:
Did they forget that a number plate needs to be attached to the front? - the space under the grille looks to have quite a curve to it.
Number plate plinths are used so the design doesn't have to be compromised to provide a flat enough surface to accommodate all different markets' requirements.Having driven a current XF (albeit Sportbrake) for the last 15 months, I for one am looking forward to this release. The criticisms about 'family resemblance' aside, I think its a classy, elegant design which despite being a clear evolution from the last model, has enough touches to distinguish it both from its predecessor and the XE. It appears to me that Jaguar have listened to their customers and improved this car where it matters, lower CO2, better rear legroom and an updated cabin and touchscreen. If it handles and rides as well as the old car, it'll be a winner in my eyes and Jaguar will have retained this customer!
MJ85 said:
The base diesel was already much slower than the BMW equivalent in the XE, let alone in this, heavier, XF. Not too impressive.
"Jaguar claims the manual 163hp diesel is 80kg lighter than "its closest competitor." For reference a 520d manual has a 1,695kg kerbweight."Note the word "lighter".
MJ85 said:
The base diesel was already much slower than the BMW equivalent in the XE, let alone in this, heavier, XF. Not too impressive.
No it isn't.http://www.whatcar.com/Review/EditionCompare?newOr...
unsprung said:
Again, with apologies to the skilled and informed at Jaguar, I would ask if the beltline could be lowered. If we reduce the distance, or perceived distance between the beltline and the body base line, the car acquires a long and low appearance.
This appearance is consistent with design cues of the luxury / sport category and has been used by Jaguar saloons in the past. It would result in a new XF that is both familiar alongside the XE and a distinct step up from that car.
In real life it (the new one) looks longer than the outgoing XF, even though the new one is actually shorter. Wait until you see it for real, the photos aren't doing it justice (as with every car).This appearance is consistent with design cues of the luxury / sport category and has been used by Jaguar saloons in the past. It would result in a new XF that is both familiar alongside the XE and a distinct step up from that car.
What have they got to do with Ford? 
Gassing Station | General Gassing | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff