RE: Porsche 996 Turbo: Catch it while you can

RE: Porsche 996 Turbo: Catch it while you can

Author
Discussion

J4CKO

41,287 posts

199 months

Thursday 26th March 2015
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Just read a sobering tale of a snapped camchain, the owner rebuilt it himself for about £3500 but it suffered some running issues which he managed to rectify, the owner of Hartech kept offering advice and support which was impressive.

Axel987

274 posts

108 months

Thursday 26th March 2015
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baz is fantastic

996TT02

3,308 posts

139 months

Thursday 26th March 2015
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Lost soul said:
J4CKO said:
my worry would be the engine but they seem pretty robust compared to the N/A but it is the whole turbo, intercooler, injection, radiator, heat exchanger, exhaust thing that concerns me.
That seems to be the subject I see mentioned quite often in threads about Turbos
If you don't DIY rather heavily then you can spend quite a bit of £££ annually. The "common failings" are actually common and you can expect to suffer them.

But the turbo - it's mostly the corrosion of bolts, catch it early and sort it out, DIY the cost is barely into pounds. Heatshields are not ruinously expensive either.

Intercooler(s), I don't read of any problems which is not surprising as they only flow air.

Injection? Fuel injection? Don't read anything either and all cars have fuel injection NA included obviously.

Oil heat exchanger failures are not that common and can be done without removing engine.

Radiators (and a/c condensers) yes make sure you place mesh behind the grilles to keep a lot of crud out, and the bumper cover comes off so easily that removing it and cleaning out anything annually is an hour's job on the drive. Otherwise not too expensive or difficult to DIY rads and condensers if you shop around. BUT - the NA cars have radiators too, and condensers, so it's not a "Turbo" thing.

Exhaust, it's the turbo nuts and studs (as previous) that are the issue.

I have just bought a clutch accumulator, another common failure. I will eventually DIY this, but the item (although expensive for what it is) cost around £125 and should be good for around 4 years or so.

However if you are a completely hands off person or with limited tools / facilities then yes the 996 Turbo can be costly to maintain, as would any other technologically loaded supercar which is now ageing.

blade7

11,311 posts

215 months

Thursday 26th March 2015
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g7jhp said:
It's all round ability is disguised by the thump in the back it gives you when you put your foot down. The wet weather performance is amazing. Inside it's a nice place to be, you do feel like a fighter pilot. A genuine all weather supercar.
When decent early ones started around £20k I thought one was going to be my next weekend car, a ride in one changed my mind, the problem was the sensation of speed wasn't there until it was going silly fast. No doubt they're brilliant in the wet but I only use my w/e car/bike in the dry.

Edited by blade7 on Thursday 26th March 13:51

R8Steve

4,150 posts

174 months

Thursday 26th March 2015
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blade7 said:
When decent early ones started around £20k I thought one was going to be my next weekend car, a ride in one changed my mind, the problem was the sensation of speed wasn't there until it was going silly fast.
This is probably what most people that drive them find, myself included. Hugely capable and extremely fast but the actual driving sensation is lacking. I also found the sound a bit dull as well. Don't get me wrong though, they are a great overall package and imo look stunning.

andy_ran

554 posts

192 months

Thursday 26th March 2015
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J4CKO said:
Noooo, leave one for me.

I have got to thinking that stuff like this is actually a very canny way of buying a car, say 25 - 30 grand, a combination of finance and cash, say £500 a month on a loan over four years plus my old car.

Obviously it wont be cheap to run but it needn't be ruinous, assuming it doesn't break spectacularly and just needs consumables and servicing.

Run it for four years, once you have paid the loan off you have paid perhaps £1500 in interest, hopefully it will have increased in value by that much, but critically it wont have depreciated, I assume based on current trends, it isn't like you can get any other 911 turbo for 25 grand of any description. insurance isn't too horrendous, VED will be what £280 ?, Cant imagine fuel will be any worse than my 350Z.



Its a 430 bhp, 4WD savings plan !
Perfect Man Maths! Thats exactly what i did with a 997T - Its my savings account

KungFuPanda

4,324 posts

169 months

Thursday 26th March 2015
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I had a C4S which shared some parts with the turbo such as the brakes, rads, some suspension parts etc.

EuroCarParts can be a surprisingly good source for parts. I got new Pagid pads and discs all round as well as TRW branded coffin arms and forked suspension arms all from there.

Lost soul

8,712 posts

181 months

Thursday 26th March 2015
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KungFuPanda said:
EuroCarParts can be a surprisingly good source for parts.
Just browsed some prices for parts on a Turbo , remarkably affordable considering what I had expected prices to be , good find smile


g7jhp

6,959 posts

237 months

Thursday 26th March 2015
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blade7 said:
When decent early ones started around £20k I thought one was going to be my next weekend car, a ride in one changed my mind, the problem was the sensation of speed wasn't there until it was going silly fast. No doubt they're brilliant in the wet but I only use my w/e car/bike in the dry.
They're equally good in the dry (it's just they're better than anything else I've driven in the wet) and rewarding whether you're stringing a series of bends together, making progress on the motorway or passing on an A-road.

Ursicles

1,068 posts

241 months

Thursday 26th March 2015
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One thing about this car thats not been mentioned - this thing could cost you your licence so very easily without u ever trying.

It breaks the speed limit in 2nd gear!

Its an immersurably capable creature.

J4CKO

41,287 posts

199 months

Thursday 26th March 2015
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996TT02 said:
Lost soul said:
J4CKO said:
my worry would be the engine but they seem pretty robust compared to the N/A but it is the whole turbo, intercooler, injection, radiator, heat exchanger, exhaust thing that concerns me.
That seems to be the subject I see mentioned quite often in threads about Turbos
If you don't DIY rather heavily then you can spend quite a bit of £££ annually. The "common failings" are actually common and you can expect to suffer them.

But the turbo - it's mostly the corrosion of bolts, catch it early and sort it out, DIY the cost is barely into pounds. Heatshields are not ruinously expensive either.

Intercooler(s), I don't read of any problems which is not surprising as they only flow air.

Injection? Fuel injection? Don't read anything either and all cars have fuel injection NA included obviously.

Oil heat exchanger failures are not that common and can be done without removing engine.

Radiators (and a/c condensers) yes make sure you place mesh behind the grilles to keep a lot of crud out, and the bumper cover comes off so easily that removing it and cleaning out anything annually is an hour's job on the drive. Otherwise not too expensive or difficult to DIY rads and condensers if you shop around. BUT - the NA cars have radiators too, and condensers, so it's not a "Turbo" thing.

Exhaust, it's the turbo nuts and studs (as previous) that are the issue.

I have just bought a clutch accumulator, another common failure. I will eventually DIY this, but the item (although expensive for what it is) cost around £125 and should be good for around 4 years or so.

However if you are a completely hands off person or with limited tools / facilities then yes the 996 Turbo can be costly to maintain, as would any other technologically loaded supercar which is now ageing.
Cheers, great info.

I had done hands on with aging Pork before, but only a 944 whcih isnt quite the same.


markcoznottz

7,155 posts

223 months

Thursday 26th March 2015
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KungFuPanda said:
I had a C4S which shared some parts with the turbo such as the brakes, rads, some suspension parts etc.

EuroCarParts can be a surprisingly good source for parts. I got new Pagid pads and discs all round as well as TRW branded coffin arms and forked suspension arms all from there.
All the indies use euro now, much to the angst of the OPC. Trying to pin down what these cars are is hard, it normally ends up in an arguement about what the car isn't rather than what it is, which is strange. Someone mentioned the m3 csl earlier, well that car knows what it is, I'm not sure the turbo does. IF you want a gt that can pin you in the seat on occasions but otherwise cruise then it may fit the bill. Ride quality is amazing for such a fast car. Build quality very average, some cars out there are very tired and tbh need breaking.

IceBoy

2,443 posts

220 months

Thursday 26th March 2015
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They have been rising in price for near 3 years!

I was watching, then watching and then watching some more.

I bit the bullet 7 months ago.

Never looked back....nothing fast enough to catch me hahahah LOL.....They really are rocketing in price.

IceBoy

Never you mind

1,507 posts

111 months

Thursday 26th March 2015
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I've had mine for over a year now. Still love it to bits. I simply don't get the "Its boring" comments. They aren't. Nothing that fast can be described as boring. If you drive it full on with the traction control off its huge fun though you are doing stupid speeds. Overtaking 40mph people in 2nd just brings the biggest of grins to my face. And as for the looks, well I think it looks great, very purposeful. Then again mine does have a GT2 kit on it.

Cost wise, its not cost much at all apart from in fuel (20 mpg). The coil packs 1 & 3 went just before Christmas and I had all 6 changed which was around £650 including a new battery at my local indie. Service is due and I've been told thats £250 so its not ruined me yet.



Edited by Never you mind on Thursday 26th March 16:03

Lost soul

8,712 posts

181 months

Thursday 26th March 2015
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How much more expensive would a 997 turbo be to maintain ?

J4CKO

41,287 posts

199 months

Thursday 26th March 2015
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markcoznottz said:
some cars out there are very tired and tbh need breaking.
that is usually when I buy them.

shantybeater

1,192 posts

168 months

Thursday 26th March 2015
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Lost soul said:
How much more expensive would a 997 turbo be to maintain ?
997.1 has same engine but VTG turbos which I believe can be a considerable amount more to replace, along with the actuators which are built in and known to fail - otherwise probably very little.

Edited by shantybeater on Thursday 26th March 16:41

Mr Whippy

28,944 posts

240 months

Thursday 26th March 2015
quotequote all
I'm sure these are going up in value since 2009/2010 ish.

I remember looking at these around then thinking they were pretty viable, and it's probably the cheapest they got given the age of them at the time.

So the "catch it while you can" ship sailed half a decade ago I'd say.



But if the values we're seeing now are sustainable on a car like this is another matter.

Given the outlay and age, and possibly long term values, I'd go for a 997 now.

I really can't see these doing what 993s did. Given I've seen one 993 Turbo in my life, and I've seen tens of 996 Turbo over the years, I just don't think they'll be rare enough.


If you bought one some years ago, great, hang onto it. It probably will cost you nothing over a decade of careful ownership in depreciation terms.

But 'catch' one now while prices seem to have blipped high based on 'supercar' bubbles and you'll weep in a few years time imo!


Dave

cheese

66 posts

281 months

Thursday 26th March 2015
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EarlOfHazard said:
So, being as 996 turbos are around the same price as a BMW M3 CSL, which one would you be the better choice both in driving and as an investment??
Does anyone have experience of driving both? I myself have been in a 996 turbo tiptronic, and it was rapid to say the least.
I am in the incredibly fortunate position of owning both. At this time I am more excited by the 996TT, but that is simply because I've just quite recently purchased it and the CSL is tucked up in the garage waiting for dry roads. There is little point for me of using the CSL on wet roads as you simply cannot drive it as it needs to be driven, whereas the 996TT is excellent at any time is seems.

The CSL is by far the more involving and in many ways, exciting car. I'd class the CSL as a sports car and the 996TT as a GT. The CSL has a visceral edge to it and the involvement, noise and excitement it provides is frankly ridiculous. The CSL is a fantastic car which makes me feel very lucky and special every time I use it. DO NOT listen to people who moan about the gearbox as it's fine and suits the car well. Would I prefer it as a manual - yes, but the SMGII is great and snaps away at the gears very nicely. On a tight track, without too many long straights I think the CSL would quite comfortably be faster than the TT, as that is what it's designed for.

The 996TT, which has the X50 pack, is laugh out loud fast in the right gear and on the right road. I love that it is small and wieldy and feels chunky and tight. It's true when people say that it inspires confidence and you don't quite realise how fast you're going. I haven't done this myself but, I heard of people setting a beeper to go off at just over a 100mph to notify them of their speed - the point being that you can easily hoof it up to a ton without blinking.

As investments go the CSL seems to have stalled a bit over the last 12 months and now seems well behind some of the cars it has traditionally been judged against. A 996 GT3 was about 15k more than the CSL when new and has, broadly speaking, had a fairly consistent difference for the last ten years or so. The last 18 months have changed that dramatically and by this comparison the CSL looks cheap. My, it has to be said, uneducated guess, would be that the CSL will go up by another few grand over the spring and summer buying season and probably do the same for the next year or two.

The 996 TT is being, in part, dragged up by the amazing market for air cooled Porsches and then also by it's own charms. I think the 996 TT is ageing very well and looks better than the slightly chintzy 997TT (I think a normal 997 looks much nicer than a normal 996 though). It has the Mezger engine and I think is officially now classed by Porsche as a 'classic' with it being 10 years old - although don't quote me on this, which again may help the prices and perceptions.

996jim

147 posts

151 months

Thursday 26th March 2015
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Yes, I'm pretty much in this camp. I bought one and within six months I found it boring - very fast but boring. No character, no real soul and looks that really only a parent could love.
I do like it when people say that they "turn off the traction control to have fun", how many people can honestly say that they could confidently drive one of these on the public roads with the traction control turned off, err not many.
As per most mainstream Porsche's today (if you can call a 911 Turbo mainstream) is that they are made in such massive numbers, for Porsche, they suffer huge depreciation which is a real shame. Limited editions though seem to be going from strength to strength however. I much prefer my current Aston to my 996 turbo even though it's no way as fast, but it has so much more about it, which is saying something as I not too much in love with my Aston.
mikebradford said:
urquattroGus said:
Very capable, but just doesn't quite do it for me.
I'm sure it's quick and capable, but I don't really like the 996 look.
I can't stand the interior, I think it looks horrid and nasty.
The 993 Turbo on the other hand, for some reason appeals a lot.
I believe the performance is much the same? It's lighter? and it looks great. The interior also has an honest charm.
Failing that, I'd rather go the other way and pick up a 997 turbo for circa 40k.
My thoughts exactly