964 going, what to replace it with?
Discussion
clockworks said:
Potential engine issues were my main concern, but he assures me that a regular check for oil leaks, and careful examination of the oil filter once a year, will mean that any problem will be spotted before it becomes terminal. He will show me exactly what to look out for, how to check it all myself.
He feels that sticking to the 2 or 3 year oil change schedule is a big no-no. The oil will be OK, but potential problems will be missed, until it's too late.
I'm afraid that wouldn't do it for me. The 3.2 engine is flawed, and how often do you need the extra 'power' over the 2.7?He feels that sticking to the 2 or 3 year oil change schedule is a big no-no. The oil will be OK, but potential problems will be missed, until it's too late.
And I certainly would insist on an independent inspection - not from the trader selling you the car.
Motorrad said:
R129 500SL.
Mine costs 200 quid to insure on a classic policy, is reasonably quick and very comfortable. If anything values are on the up not down and your budget easily buys a very nice one.
http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/2015...
Yes, yes and yes again. A superb car, last of an era, and bloody quick! Earlier models even quicker!Mine costs 200 quid to insure on a classic policy, is reasonably quick and very comfortable. If anything values are on the up not down and your budget easily buys a very nice one.
http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/2015...
Orangecurry said:
I'm afraid that wouldn't do it for me. The 3.2 engine is flawed, and how often do you need the extra 'power' over the 2.7?
And I certainly would insist on an independent inspection - not from the trader selling you the car.
The 3.2 has no more issues than a 2.7. I'm on my second and *touch wood* between them they've covered 180k.And I certainly would insist on an independent inspection - not from the trader selling you the car.
If you really want a good clean example, well maintained etc then you could do well to look at some of those on sale on boxa.net
I know many advocate an inspection but I have down without.
clockworks said:
My 964 is going to a broker in the next few days. We've agreed a price, and he's confident that it'll sell fairly quickly. I'll be using the "profit" it's made over the 3 years that I've owned it (£10k) plus whatever I get for my Z4 2.2, to buy a new weekend car. I guess my budget will be around £16k.
The car needs to be a convertible, have some boot space, 2 seats or 2+2, minimal depreciation, and cost less to tax, insure and service than the combined cost of running the 964 and Z4.
It'll need to be quick, at least as quick as the 964, and reasonably comfy/civilised.
My initial thoughts were a Z4M, or maybe a good Boxster 3.2......
Lotus Elise S1 @ £12kThe car needs to be a convertible, have some boot space, 2 seats or 2+2, minimal depreciation, and cost less to tax, insure and service than the combined cost of running the 964 and Z4.
It'll need to be quick, at least as quick as the 964, and reasonably comfy/civilised.
My initial thoughts were a Z4M, or maybe a good Boxster 3.2......
Lotus Elise S2 @ £13k
Lotus Elan M100 @ £7k
TVR Griffith
TVR Chimera
Caterham 7
Mazda MX5 Mk1 (you may enjoy the slower top down driving)
edc said:
Whilst I've not read their buyers guides cover to cover I can't see anything explicit there. Care to share your thoughts?
I also don't have the time to wade through the pdfs to quote it here right now - what I remember is that the 2.5 and 2.7 use the same original-design cylinder bore, but the later 3.2 is slightly bored-out, and IIRC Hartech suggest that this was slightly 'too much', and without perfect cooling or a closed-deck on rebuild, this had a higher chance of failure over the original bore size of 2.5/2.7. ETA
hartech said:
Older 2.5 and 2.7 Boxsters, and 3.4 996's should not have a bore scoring issue (unless something else is seriously wrong like a leaking radiator, cracked head or cylinder or damaged coolant pump). The 3.2S will however still be slightly prone to cylinder or head cracks at higher mileages (unless the bores are re-shaped and restrained by converting to a closed deck design during a rebuild). Early 2.5's may slip liners (fitted by Porsche to recover scrap blocks) and the IMS bearing will also be an issue.
Baz
Baz
I guess some 986s will be "end of life" at 17 years old (plenty of early cars for sale at less than £5k now), but most of those will be rough at 12 years old. Seen a few of those. It's a problem with all old cars as they reach the bottom of their depreciation curve, worse for an image or performance car. Servicing gets skipped, interiors get treated roughly, parking dings get ignored.
I don't think that it's inevitable though. Stay on top of routine maintenance, treat it with respect, and any car should be fine for at least 150k miles, barring a catastrophic failure. Sure, there's a slim chance of a major bill with a Boxster. Isn't the potential for a big bill one of the reasons that the air-cooled cars were cheap at 15 years of age? Back in the day it was rust and leaky engines, now it's failed bearings and seals. The ones that survived climbed out of the doldrums. I see no reason why the 986 (and 996) shouldn't do the same, albeit maybe not to the same levels. Boxsters are very capable cars, and I'm sure they will be appreciated more as time passes, and the rough ones get broken for spares.
If I buy a nice 60k miler for £10k, chances are it'll be a nice 80k miler after 5 years, and still be worth at least half that amount. Another 5 years, and it could be worth more than it is now.
It's a gamble, but a £16k 987 is practically guaranteed to lose £6k in 5 years, and another £5k in the following 5 years, before it starts going up again.
Which one would be the better buy? I guess it depends how far into ownership you go before selling up.
Thanks for the further suggestions of other cars to look at, but a Lotus would be a bit too "back to basics" at my age. I had considered an M3, but they are a bit chavvy right now. TVR is potentially a bigger money pit - lovely looks and noise though.
Z4M was top of my list, but I don't think the ride would do me any favours. Running costs are bit on the high side, and a good one is, what, £15k plus? Probably a good investment, but not really a car I could chuck around the back lanes of Cornwall. Probably be a different story if I lived in the Lakes, Dales, or North Wales. The roads here are mostly very narrow, with poor sight lines. What's needed is pin-point precision, good brakes, and plenty of airbags if the worst happens.
I've had a Mk2 and a Mk3 MX5, and driven a couple of Mk1s. Great cars, great fun, but a bit slow for overtaking.
Having finally experienced a Boxster, I don't see how any other car could improve on it's combination of performance, grip, comfort, and sheer pointability, without spending an awful lot more. It may not excel in any one area, but it's a terrific mix of abilities.
I don't think that it's inevitable though. Stay on top of routine maintenance, treat it with respect, and any car should be fine for at least 150k miles, barring a catastrophic failure. Sure, there's a slim chance of a major bill with a Boxster. Isn't the potential for a big bill one of the reasons that the air-cooled cars were cheap at 15 years of age? Back in the day it was rust and leaky engines, now it's failed bearings and seals. The ones that survived climbed out of the doldrums. I see no reason why the 986 (and 996) shouldn't do the same, albeit maybe not to the same levels. Boxsters are very capable cars, and I'm sure they will be appreciated more as time passes, and the rough ones get broken for spares.
If I buy a nice 60k miler for £10k, chances are it'll be a nice 80k miler after 5 years, and still be worth at least half that amount. Another 5 years, and it could be worth more than it is now.
It's a gamble, but a £16k 987 is practically guaranteed to lose £6k in 5 years, and another £5k in the following 5 years, before it starts going up again.
Which one would be the better buy? I guess it depends how far into ownership you go before selling up.
Thanks for the further suggestions of other cars to look at, but a Lotus would be a bit too "back to basics" at my age. I had considered an M3, but they are a bit chavvy right now. TVR is potentially a bigger money pit - lovely looks and noise though.
Z4M was top of my list, but I don't think the ride would do me any favours. Running costs are bit on the high side, and a good one is, what, £15k plus? Probably a good investment, but not really a car I could chuck around the back lanes of Cornwall. Probably be a different story if I lived in the Lakes, Dales, or North Wales. The roads here are mostly very narrow, with poor sight lines. What's needed is pin-point precision, good brakes, and plenty of airbags if the worst happens.
I've had a Mk2 and a Mk3 MX5, and driven a couple of Mk1s. Great cars, great fun, but a bit slow for overtaking.
Having finally experienced a Boxster, I don't see how any other car could improve on it's combination of performance, grip, comfort, and sheer pointability, without spending an awful lot more. It may not excel in any one area, but it's a terrific mix of abilities.
A good pragmatic approach and similar to mine hence why I'm on my second Boxster now. First was a 2000 S with 58k. A more informed and braver buy now means I have a 112k 2004 550 Anniversary. I buy cheaper and freshen up the old parts though. £10k seems pretty steep for a 986. I'd aim to buy under £9k or even £8k and have a little pot for mods or just to freshen a couple of bits whether that's clutch, waterpump or suspension bushes.
walm said:
The OP is a 57 year-old who finds 2 hour journeys in a 964 hard work.
And you are suggesting Elises!!!?
Cruel.
Your right I should be thinking about cars you can waft in!And you are suggesting Elises!!!?
Cruel.
Jaguar XK8 Convertible with 64k miles at £11k
or
Mercedes SL500 with 34k miles at £12k
edc said:
A good pragmatic approach and similar to mine hence why I'm on my second Boxster now. First was a 2000 S with 58k. A more informed and braver buy now means I have a 112k 2004 550 Anniversary. I buy cheaper and freshen up the old parts though. £10k seems pretty steep for a 986. I'd aim to buy under £9k or even £8k and have a little pot for mods or just to freshen a couple of bits whether that's clutch, waterpump or suspension bushes.
It's the state of the interior trim that really bothers me with many of the cars that I've seen at the cheaper end of the market.E46 m3, offers great comfort, handles. Very well, much less twitchy on the limit than the z4 and suspension works well on B roads in OEM setup.
Keep it completely standard and it won't be chavy Do not buy one in carbon black, silver or topaz blue and it shouldn't lose any more money. The smg is a much more engaging gearbox than any slush box auto.
Keep it completely standard and it won't be chavy Do not buy one in carbon black, silver or topaz blue and it shouldn't lose any more money. The smg is a much more engaging gearbox than any slush box auto.
I had a Z4 3.0i and ultimately it felt a little anodyne and boring. I had the Boxster S v Z4M debate for ages with myself. Agree that the looks of the Boxster (987) are well resolved, better so than the Z4MR, and it is a better all round sports car with compliance that allows you to chuck it around. I guess ultimately though they just felt too commonplace, and I had worries about the robustness of the engine and also, looking at the low value of Mk 1 Bpxsters was worried about depreciation on a 16k 987. So I bought a Z4MR and adore it - it is such an event to drive, with an extraordinary soundtrack and engine - just so much better in every way than my earlier 3.0i that with a blindfold on you wouldn't know you were in a similar car. It's slightly softer - or better sprung and less skittish - than my 3.0i, and better on rural roads with strange cambers, and looking at the price of Z3M Roadsters, unlikely to depreciate much...
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