964 going, what to replace it with?
Discussion
My 964 is going to a broker in the next few days. We've agreed a price, and he's confident that it'll sell fairly quickly. I'll be using the "profit" it's made over the 3 years that I've owned it (£10k) plus whatever I get for my Z4 2.2, to buy a new weekend car. I guess my budget will be around £16k.
The car needs to be a convertible, have some boot space, 2 seats or 2+2, minimal depreciation, and cost less to tax, insure and service than the combined cost of running the 964 and Z4.
It'll need to be quick, at least as quick as the 964, and reasonably comfy/civilised.
My initial thoughts were a Z4M, or maybe a good Boxster 3.2......
The car needs to be a convertible, have some boot space, 2 seats or 2+2, minimal depreciation, and cost less to tax, insure and service than the combined cost of running the 964 and Z4.
It'll need to be quick, at least as quick as the 964, and reasonably comfy/civilised.
My initial thoughts were a Z4M, or maybe a good Boxster 3.2......
ppI appreciate what you guys are saying, but it's time for a change.
Maybe it's my age (57), but I just don't find the 964 a relaxing car to drive for longer journeys. The whole point of an air-cooled Porsche is you have to work at it, it's alive, you have to respect it.
It's great fun for a quick blast, and it's a very cool car, but after a 2 hour drive, I need a rest. For this reason, I find myself driving it less and less each year. If I'm travelling longer distances, I'll take the E61. If it isn't raining, I'll take the Z4.
The 964 gets used just for fun, when I feel the need for a little spririted driving.
And that's the problem. I find myself driving too fast, just to hear the engine. Sooner or later, I'll come a cropper, or lose my licence. My reactions aren't what thy used to be, and the 964 does tend to wander a bit on the badly surfaced tracks that pass for back roads here in Cornwall. I stick to the main roads, or back roads that I know well. I can't fully exploit the car's potential.
If it was a bit rough around the edges, I probably wouldn't worry so much. The odd ding wouldn't be too much of a problem. It's genuinely a rust-free car, never been crashed. I won't take it out if the roads are wet.
It's in danger of becoming a garage queen, and that shouldn't happen to a Porsche.
I've enjoyed owning and driving it, I've ticked it off my bucket list. It's time for someone else to enjoy it.
I took it for what will probably be my last drive in it today, up to the place that's brokering it.
I went for a drive in a nicely maintained 986 Boxster S Tip. A lot of car for £10K, and I was more impressed than I expected to be. The dealer demonstrated the balance of the car with a couple of circuits of a roundabout. No drama at all, no squealing tyres, no rapid corrections of the wheel, just more lateral G than I've ever experienced. Perfect balance.
My turn, and I found it so easy to drive down some narrow, twisty, badly surfaced back roads. It went exactly where I pointed it, at speeds that would have the 964 (or the Z4) lurching towards the hedges. That may sound like it was boring, but it wasn't. I could safely make good progress, without second-guessing what the car would do next. It did what I wanted it to. It was equally at home pootling along in traffic. I found the Tip box a revelation after the early Tip in the 964, and a lot better than the auto boxes in the Beemers. It seemed to know exactly what gear I needed, allowing me to concentrate on the road. Again, maybe that's a sign of old age, but it suited me.
If it had been any colour but red, I'd have bought it on the spot - my missus won't drive a red car. She's had 3, and crashed them all (and those are the only accidents she's had!).
I think my mind is made up. I just hope he can source one as good, but in a different colour.
Maybe it's my age (57), but I just don't find the 964 a relaxing car to drive for longer journeys. The whole point of an air-cooled Porsche is you have to work at it, it's alive, you have to respect it.
It's great fun for a quick blast, and it's a very cool car, but after a 2 hour drive, I need a rest. For this reason, I find myself driving it less and less each year. If I'm travelling longer distances, I'll take the E61. If it isn't raining, I'll take the Z4.
The 964 gets used just for fun, when I feel the need for a little spririted driving.
And that's the problem. I find myself driving too fast, just to hear the engine. Sooner or later, I'll come a cropper, or lose my licence. My reactions aren't what thy used to be, and the 964 does tend to wander a bit on the badly surfaced tracks that pass for back roads here in Cornwall. I stick to the main roads, or back roads that I know well. I can't fully exploit the car's potential.
If it was a bit rough around the edges, I probably wouldn't worry so much. The odd ding wouldn't be too much of a problem. It's genuinely a rust-free car, never been crashed. I won't take it out if the roads are wet.
It's in danger of becoming a garage queen, and that shouldn't happen to a Porsche.
I've enjoyed owning and driving it, I've ticked it off my bucket list. It's time for someone else to enjoy it.
I took it for what will probably be my last drive in it today, up to the place that's brokering it.
I went for a drive in a nicely maintained 986 Boxster S Tip. A lot of car for £10K, and I was more impressed than I expected to be. The dealer demonstrated the balance of the car with a couple of circuits of a roundabout. No drama at all, no squealing tyres, no rapid corrections of the wheel, just more lateral G than I've ever experienced. Perfect balance.
My turn, and I found it so easy to drive down some narrow, twisty, badly surfaced back roads. It went exactly where I pointed it, at speeds that would have the 964 (or the Z4) lurching towards the hedges. That may sound like it was boring, but it wasn't. I could safely make good progress, without second-guessing what the car would do next. It did what I wanted it to. It was equally at home pootling along in traffic. I found the Tip box a revelation after the early Tip in the 964, and a lot better than the auto boxes in the Beemers. It seemed to know exactly what gear I needed, allowing me to concentrate on the road. Again, maybe that's a sign of old age, but it suited me.
If it had been any colour but red, I'd have bought it on the spot - my missus won't drive a red car. She's had 3, and crashed them all (and those are the only accidents she's had!).
I think my mind is made up. I just hope he can source one as good, but in a different colour.
Yes, quite a few out there, but I'm pretty fussy about condition. I've seen 5 or 6 locally, going for £6 to 8k, and they were showing their age. Shabby hoods, worn interior plastics, scuffed seats. Not the end of the world for what is a fairly cheap car, but it'd annoy me. I was beginning to think that all 986s were like this, that's why I'd discounted them, never driven one.
The one I drove today was practically mint, looked like it was only a couple of years old. Slightly shiny leather on the steering wheel and gearknob, and a couple of marks on the interior door handles.
I'm happy to pay a bit extra for the right car.
The 996 has never appealed to me. The shape just isn't quite right to my eyes. Personal preference. I guess a lot of people saw the 964 the same way 10 years ago?
Also, I want a convertible, and the Boxster just looks right, while I think convertible 911s look a bit awkward.
Personal preference again.
I still think the E85 Z4 looks better, just a shame it's dynamics don't suit me when pressing on down the twisties. It's weird, but I can push my E61 harder, despite the fact that it's a lardy diesel estate. It's predictable, and that gives me the confidence to go faster, in a way that the Z4 and 964 never have. The Boxster gave me the same confidence.
It could be that I don't have the ability to exploit a car that's "alive" I suppose. 25 years of driving repmobiles may have taken it's toll.
The one I drove today was practically mint, looked like it was only a couple of years old. Slightly shiny leather on the steering wheel and gearknob, and a couple of marks on the interior door handles.
I'm happy to pay a bit extra for the right car.
The 996 has never appealed to me. The shape just isn't quite right to my eyes. Personal preference. I guess a lot of people saw the 964 the same way 10 years ago?
Also, I want a convertible, and the Boxster just looks right, while I think convertible 911s look a bit awkward.
Personal preference again.
I still think the E85 Z4 looks better, just a shame it's dynamics don't suit me when pressing on down the twisties. It's weird, but I can push my E61 harder, despite the fact that it's a lardy diesel estate. It's predictable, and that gives me the confidence to go faster, in a way that the Z4 and 964 never have. The Boxster gave me the same confidence.
It could be that I don't have the ability to exploit a car that's "alive" I suppose. 25 years of driving repmobiles may have taken it's toll.
Edited by clockworks on Thursday 26th March 23:56
Thanks for the tip.
Although I was originally thinking that I'd have to spend £15 or 16k to get a car that suited, seeing and driving a good 986 has made me see that I can spend significantly less. The 986 was £9.5k.
Depreciation on a 987 is a big concern, same as any newer car. I guess a nice 986 for £10k has the potential to lose a few £k (dealer margin and minimal depreciation), but a £16k 987 will probably fetch half that amount in 5 years.
I should've said in the original post that I'm semi-retired, so my income is well below the national average. I can't really afford another depreciating asset.
Although I was originally thinking that I'd have to spend £15 or 16k to get a car that suited, seeing and driving a good 986 has made me see that I can spend significantly less. The 986 was £9.5k.
Depreciation on a 987 is a big concern, same as any newer car. I guess a nice 986 for £10k has the potential to lose a few £k (dealer margin and minimal depreciation), but a £16k 987 will probably fetch half that amount in 5 years.
I should've said in the original post that I'm semi-retired, so my income is well below the national average. I can't really afford another depreciating asset.
R129 500SL.
Mine costs 200 quid to insure on a classic policy, is reasonably quick and very comfortable. If anything values are on the up not down and your budget easily buys a very nice one.
http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/2015...
Mine costs 200 quid to insure on a classic policy, is reasonably quick and very comfortable. If anything values are on the up not down and your budget easily buys a very nice one.
http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/2015...
I'm not sure it does - I have a great love for the old german stuff, having two such machines myself, but the OP still wants to be able to press-on in the twisties.
The 964 rear trailing arms are its weakness - what have the old MBs got?
OP - all of your reasons make perfect sense to me - I'm sure you know this already but the 986 changed from a rear plastic screen to a glass one in 2000-and-something.
Also the 2.7 engine is reckoned to be the safest bet with least issues (2.5 as well but underpowered) and the 3.2 has the most potential issues.
I'd source a late 2.7 - good luck in your search.
The 964 rear trailing arms are its weakness - what have the old MBs got?
OP - all of your reasons make perfect sense to me - I'm sure you know this already but the 986 changed from a rear plastic screen to a glass one in 2000-and-something.
Also the 2.7 engine is reckoned to be the safest bet with least issues (2.5 as well but underpowered) and the 3.2 has the most potential issues.
I'd source a late 2.7 - good luck in your search.
Edited by Orangecurry on Friday 27th March 09:06
Comfy fast convertible around £16k?
You know Z4M or 987 S are the right answers.
But you might be able to find a leggy RS4.
SLK?
996 http://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds/used-cars/p...
You know Z4M or 987 S are the right answers.
But you might be able to find a leggy RS4.
SLK?
996 http://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds/used-cars/p...
I went through all the options with the dealer yesterday, and he's looking for an 03/04 car, so facelift with glass rear screen. He was quite insistent that drive by wire was the biggest benefit of the later cars, making the tip 'box much more responsive.
Potential engine issues were my main concern, but he assures me that a regular check for oil leaks, and careful examination of the oil filter once a year, will mean that any problem will be spotted before it becomes terminal. He will show me exactly what to look out for, how to check it all myself.
He feels that sticking to the 2 or 3 year oil change schedule is a big no-no. The oil will be OK, but potential problems will be missed, until it's too late.
At around £300 a year, I'll be getting it serviced.
Old Mercs certainly have the cool factor, but are not what I need for back road blasting.
Potential engine issues were my main concern, but he assures me that a regular check for oil leaks, and careful examination of the oil filter once a year, will mean that any problem will be spotted before it becomes terminal. He will show me exactly what to look out for, how to check it all myself.
He feels that sticking to the 2 or 3 year oil change schedule is a big no-no. The oil will be OK, but potential problems will be missed, until it's too late.
At around £300 a year, I'll be getting it serviced.
Old Mercs certainly have the cool factor, but are not what I need for back road blasting.
clockworks said:
I went through all the options with the dealer yesterday, and he's looking for an 03/04 car, so facelift with glass rear screen. He was quite insistent that drive by wire was the biggest benefit of the later cars, making the tip 'box much more responsive.
Potential engine issues were my main concern, but he assures me that a regular check for oil leaks, and careful examination of the oil filter once a year, will mean that any problem will be spotted before it becomes terminal. He will show me exactly what to look out for, how to check it all myself.
He feels that sticking to the 2 or 3 year oil change schedule is a big no-no. The oil will be OK, but potential problems will be missed, until it's too late.
At around £300 a year, I'll be getting it serviced.
Old Mercs certainly have the cool factor, but are not what I need for back road blasting.
When did the variable ratio steering come in? (I've not got Frere's book to hand). Some people, me included, can't get on with it at all, so if you're looking at any cars with it, be sure to test drive them through a variety of corners.Potential engine issues were my main concern, but he assures me that a regular check for oil leaks, and careful examination of the oil filter once a year, will mean that any problem will be spotted before it becomes terminal. He will show me exactly what to look out for, how to check it all myself.
He feels that sticking to the 2 or 3 year oil change schedule is a big no-no. The oil will be OK, but potential problems will be missed, until it's too late.
At around £300 a year, I'll be getting it serviced.
Old Mercs certainly have the cool factor, but are not what I need for back road blasting.
I would be careful with the math on 987 vs 986 over 5 years from now.
I agree on say £8k depreciation for the 987.
But won't a 12 year old 986 today be looking very very close to end of life at 17 years old?
Any slight engine trouble simply won't be worth fixing - they are still a Porsche.
So you could end up losing ALL £10k worst case.
Plus you get much shorter service intervals 12K vs. 20K.
Of course do a yearly oil change but still cheaper.
If you are really considering a £10k 986 S - I would compare it to the 987 2.7.
I had both the 986 S and the 987 S and the interior was just light years ahead.
(Loved them both though!)
I agree on say £8k depreciation for the 987.
But won't a 12 year old 986 today be looking very very close to end of life at 17 years old?
Any slight engine trouble simply won't be worth fixing - they are still a Porsche.
So you could end up losing ALL £10k worst case.
Plus you get much shorter service intervals 12K vs. 20K.
Of course do a yearly oil change but still cheaper.
If you are really considering a £10k 986 S - I would compare it to the 987 2.7.
I had both the 986 S and the 987 S and the interior was just light years ahead.
(Loved them both though!)
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