M25/M40 Split

[rb5er]

I have already answered when I think he should move over. Learn to read. Also learn to read the links to discover that many speedos are way out.

You cant be so ignorant/stupid to see the proof for these simple things when its there for you to see surely? Can you? You dont have to believe the proof if you are too stubborn to do so but hey I'm not here to lead the blind.

[ecsrobin]

rb5er said:

I have already answered when I think he should move over. Learn to read. Also learn to read the links to discover that many speedos are way out.

You cant be so ignorant/stupid to see the proof for these simple things when its there for you to see surely? Can you? You dont have to believe the proof if you are too stubborn to do so but hey I'm not here to lead the blind.

I thought you said you had no more to say on the subject.

Whilst you were on the right side of the discussion the argument you've delivered to the party is pretty sub standard. Leave the JCB alone and stop digging a hole.

[FiF]

Sorry I missed your post about a quarter of a mile.

Have read your links and they do not prove that his speed at an indicated 60-65 is likely to be 50-55. Experience over many years and many vehicles has never provided one that is so far out without the equipment being faulty or as otherwise explained. I don't accept that it's likely, possible but not likely.

Looks like we're going to have to disagree.

[Bonefish Blues]

Apropos of nothing my S60 as measured on a GPS app reads 52 at a true 50 and 73 at a true 70.

[heebeegeetee]

rb5er said:

I have already answered when I think he should move over. Learn to read. Also learn to read the links to discover that many speedos are way out.

You cant be so ignorant/stupid to see the proof for these simple things when its there for you to see surely? Can you? You dont have to believe the proof if you are too stubborn to do so but hey I'm not here to lead the blind.

You're wrong rb5er. You're wrong to beleive that internet links are proof, certainly when it comes to PH, you're wrong to suggest that a section of m'way that divides into 2 is a 'fast' section, and you're wrong to think it best to change lanes later than sooner. It is best to change lanes when it is 'quietest', ie when there is the least traffic around. You cannot predict what level of traffic will be around if you leave it later, so don't bother.

The other drivers that the OP is referring too are bad drivers, they are likely to be exceeding the limit whilst not understanding the directions and lane markings they are seeing, and you seem to be falling into that group too.

[va1o]

rallycross said:

I drive different cars all the time and I use a Tom tom when delivering them and I would say the majority of them (mainly Vw, Bmw, Honda but could be anything) are 5-7 mph over reading on the speedo at motorway speeds but quite a few have seen showing more than that, very surprised you don't know that.

Sorry but that is BS. If true then there's something wrong with your Tom Tom (and do none of those cars you're delivering have built in sat nav??)

Bonefish Blues said:

Apropos of nothing my S60 as measured on a GPS app reads 52 at a true 50 and 73 at a true 70.

Yep this what you'd normally see

[heebeegeetee]

va1o said:

Yep this what you'd normally see

I agree. The vast majority of cars I have checked have been consistently 3mph out at any speed. HGVs tended to be 2 mph, and by far the majority i drove did a maximum of 54 mph on gps. I might encounter the odd car that might be 4 mph out, perhaps at a higher speed.

I've never encoutered a car that was 5-10mph out, I don't think, and if such an error is found then something is wrong with the vehicle, likely to have rubbish after-market wheels fitted with the wrong size of tyre.

If rallycross is conistently seeing eorrors of 5-7 mph then I'm going to say there's something wrong with his Tom-Tom.

[rallycross]

va1o said:

rallycross said:

I drive different cars all the time and I use a Tom tom when delivering them and I would say the majority of them (mainly Vw, Bmw, Honda but could be anything) are 5-7 mph over reading on the speedo at motorway speeds but quite a few have seen showing more than that, very surprised you don't know that.

Sorry but that is BS. If true then there's something wrong with your Tom Tom (and do none of those cars you're delivering have built in sat nav??)

Bonefish Blues said:

Apropos of nothing my S60 as measured on a GPS app reads 52 at a true 50 and 73 at a true 70.

Yep this what you'd normally see

Well the fact is as well as being in different cars I'm also using several different sat navs.
So are you saying my real life experience of driving hundreds of different cars, many thousands of miles was all wrong? If so I'd be very interested to know how you might justify that bizarre statement?

[heebeegeetee]

rallycross said:

Well the fact is as well as being in different cars I'm also using several different sat navs.
So are you saying my real life experience of driving hundreds of different cars, many thousands of miles was all wrong? If so I'd be very interested to know how you might justify that bizarre statement?

Well I'm mysified, because although I've driven far fewer vehicles than you, if you're right the odds must be that I'll encounter/would have encountered a similar error. But I haven't.

I own 5 different cars of 4 different makes and none of them are more than 4 mph out at any time. I normally drive a few different cars each week though of the same make. As said, I've driven a fair few different vehcicles in the past including hgvs. 3 mph is the norm. 5 mph is exceptional (I've never seen it) and more than that, in a modern car is very unusual (I'd say no way).

It would be easy for you to produce some evidence if you're right, I'd be interested to see it.

Of course, if the OP was indeed 'likely' to be doing 55 mph as rbrer implies, then he'd be tangled up with the hgvs all the time. Perhaps he can tell us whether he is or not, and if he's not he can give us an estimnate of how much faster he is over the hgvs that he passes.

[FiF]

From the latest revision of the Construction and Use Regs

Relating to the instrument specification and test for approval.

Para 5.3 The speed indicated shall not be less than the true speed of the vehicle. At the test speeds specified in paragraph 5.2.5. above, there shall be the following relationship between the speed displayed (V1 ) and the true speed (V2).

0 ≤ (V1 - V2) ≤ 0.1 V2 + 4 km/h

For subsequent tests to check conformity with production specification according Annex 3 vehicles type M eg passenger vehicles the 4 km/h is amended to 6 km/h. Note km/h.

Unece 39 rev 1 corr 1.





Clearly our old C&U regs were more stringent with only a 10% allowance.

Having said that whilst have no reason to doubt rallycross' findings those numbers are outwith my experience. Must have checked over 200 vehicles over the years and whilst have found some right up at the 10% error, one of them my own, the majority have been anywhere from cock on (Citroens) to about 4/5%. Currently all my three vehicles are accurate to 1-2% across the range.

Wonder if the situation is changing and manufacturers using different aim points.

[Sir Bagalot]

PurpleMoonlight said:

You are changing lanes to early I suspect.

Just because a sign tells you what happens a mile away doesn't mean you have to be in the correct lane a mile away.

You do realise that at 70 it only takes 51.5 secs to cover that mile......

[Slaav]

Just speed up OP to flow with the traffic and pull over when you want then?

I've just cracked open some Red so now driving in tomorrow morning and will take greater attention yo report back!

Both at J4 and J1a

[Slaav]

Well, we drove in along here this morning and it has reinforced my thoughts. I tried explaining to the Mrs what this thread was all about and paraphrased the replies.

'Get a life' was her comment

Seriously though, it was interesting to closely look/examine a junction that I have never done before as it always seemed fairly obvious but with some flaws.

Anybody that switches into Lane 3 (Yes, effectively soon to be Lane 1) at the first signage is taking their life into their hands at 60mph. I know the person (culprit) wont be doing anything illegal or actually 'wrong' by the letter of the law but really? Swinging out into Lane 3 at the first chance/instant at that sort of speed would look rather unwise - even if you know what is coming up!

And yes, there were a couple of Lane 4 last minute gamblers diving across to Lane 1 as if it were a video game.

I cannot see how speeding up to travel with the traffic flow or leaving the lane change a little later is not the absolutely obvious thing to do here?

When busy, it is impossible to maintain 60mph in Lane 1 anyway as it can queue back miles.... I would suggest that common sense should prevail all round at junctions such as this one.

J4 on the other hand is even worse! This morning, a foreign HGV swung out at the first sign of the lane make up/signage almost into the path of a people carrier who was pretty much still alongside it almost causing a right mess. Meanwhile, panic braking all around and people swerving into Lane 1 to avoid any issues. Nightmare!!!

ps - Maybe we should all slow down a bit to the OP's speed at junctions such as these? That would probably be the most sensible choice but that simple isn't going to happen without temporary speed limits

[Slaav]

anonymous said:

[redacted]

Totally fair point and for the avoidance of doubt, the OP said:

"so I indicate right and gradually move across so I'm sitting in lane 3. I don't cut anyone up, there's no hurry to get across, you have tonnes of time."

Not quite how I have put it admittedly

But my overall sentiment is not unreasonable I feel. My use of the English language and selective quoting my be at fault here but even by moving over gradually at this section I would stil stick with my 'advice' to OP:

Ease up a little to maybe nearer the traffic flow speed (note this may sometimes be ease DOWN) and move across a little later unless you are naturally sitting in Lane 3 passing or keeping up with Lane 2 and 1?

Sometimes a pragmatic solution may actually be the correct one?