Road rage escalation
Discussion
People who get out their car only do so because they are confident they can kick the s
t out of the other guy. If the civic driver was big and intimidating the van driver wouldn't have approached. If civic driver was hard enough, they'd have got out. Clearly not hard enough, they were intimidated. If this ridiculous course of events hadn't occured, maybe van man would have vandalised their car in an attempt to get them out, most likely if that failed he would have reversed into them. I've been bullied by a van driver after I've beeped them, had one sweaty meat sack approach my car when I got caught in traffic. No way was I going to get out as invited! He tried my car doors as well, and was about to hit the car when I picked up the mobile and showed 999 ready to go. All for a beep...... And the beep was due to him wandering over the road while on the phone.
t out of the other guy. If the civic driver was big and intimidating the van driver wouldn't have approached. If civic driver was hard enough, they'd have got out. Clearly not hard enough, they were intimidated. If this ridiculous course of events hadn't occured, maybe van man would have vandalised their car in an attempt to get them out, most likely if that failed he would have reversed into them. I've been bullied by a van driver after I've beeped them, had one sweaty meat sack approach my car when I got caught in traffic. No way was I going to get out as invited! He tried my car doors as well, and was about to hit the car when I picked up the mobile and showed 999 ready to go. All for a beep...... And the beep was due to him wandering over the road while on the phone.Assuming the Civic driver was generally sane and of a 'normal' disposition, there must have been something significant said to warrant his actions. I'm not saying they were correct, but if the van driver had said 'I don't like the colour of your civic', I doubt he would have been run over!
And while trying not to stereotype, if anyone if going to threaten and give it large at the drop of a hat, it's white van drivers.
Had the Civic driver engaged reverse after running him over and repeated to go back a phd forth over the van drivers cranium, I may feel some remorse for him.
And while trying not to stereotype, if anyone if going to threaten and give it large at the drop of a hat, it's white van drivers.
Had the Civic driver engaged reverse after running him over and repeated to go back a phd forth over the van drivers cranium, I may feel some remorse for him.
chrisb92 said:
sparkyhx said:
totally agree - there really are some mongs on this site
I don't get why you quoted some of us in there. If you get out your vehicle and approach someone else in theirs you run the risk of picking on the wrong guy and this is what happened to the transit driver. Again, not saying I agree with running someone over, but don't start a fight if you're not prepared to get hit.As a question of ethics, nothing, other than an immediate threat to life, excuses or mitigates deliberately driving your car into a pedestrian in my humble opinion.
Nothing in the OP's posts suggests that there was an immediate threat to life. If the van driver had been holding a shotgun or an axe, then the Civic driver's conduct would be considered fair/justifiable.
As a question of law (this being Scotland), the driver might find himself in serious soapy bubble. Depending on witness statements/video evidence/what he says if interviewed by the fuzz, he could be looking at an attempted murder charge, and deservedly so.
He only has a defence in law if he can show he had no other option but to drive his vehicle into an unarmed pedestrian. Looking at the road, that doesn't seem be the case - he could have waited until the van driver had passed in front, he could have reversed and gone to the side of him, etc etc.
From the information given, (and that's all you had to go on when you wrote your post too) the Civic driver has behaved abominably, and deserves to be publicly hung up by the gonads.
Look at it another way, would you say that Kenneth Noye's murder conviction was wrong? After all, Cameron should have known better than to get out of his car....
Edited by spitsfire on Sunday 29th March 12:29
Moonhawk said:
tomjol said:
chrisb92 said:
I don't get why you quoted some of us in there. If you get out your vehicle and approach someone else in theirs you run the risk of picking on the wrong guy and this is what happened to the transit driver. Again, not saying I agree with running someone over, but don't start a fight if you're not prepared to get hit.
This kind of mentality is frightening.How is that "frightening"?
Could have been worse, as Noye and countless others teaches us. Noye was getting on when he killed his much younger victim but knives are no respecter of youth, vigour, size and attitude. If anything I'd expect more of a violent reaction from perceived 'weaker'people. Are they supposed to engage in a 'fair fight' with someone twice their size? In the heat of the moment, anything's possible.
imagineifyeswill said:
For gods sake, the guy had said his piece and was walking back to his van when he was deliberately run over, going by the responses on here I wouldnt like to meet some of you on a dark night.
On the basis that we don't know what the van driver said - it's hard to make a judgement as to whether the incident was actually over - or whether the van driver was going to escalate it further and the civic driver was genuinely scared.Case in point:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UajEQJ8UfQ0
Just because somebody is going back to their vehicle - doesn't mean they have finished 'saying their piece'.
It would be nice to know what happened in the 2 minutes leading up to the van driver getting out of his car an walking (not running?) to the Civic, before having words and then starting to walk (before being run over) back to his van.
My guess (based on the evidence from the OP), is that the Civic driver did something totally pratt-like not long before and the van driver picked him up on it at the next set of lights. Because he 'didn't like' being told off by a grown up, numb-nuts WAITED until the guy was directly in front and then ran him over (cos he's gansta innit!).
I am sure the OP will put us out of our misery, should this case go to court and we get the full story, but.. I will admit I was wrong, if it is proven that the civic driver really is blameless.
Sweepstake???
My guess (based on the evidence from the OP), is that the Civic driver did something totally pratt-like not long before and the van driver picked him up on it at the next set of lights. Because he 'didn't like' being told off by a grown up, numb-nuts WAITED until the guy was directly in front and then ran him over (cos he's gansta innit!).
I am sure the OP will put us out of our misery, should this case go to court and we get the full story, but.. I will admit I was wrong, if it is proven that the civic driver really is blameless.
Sweepstake???
imagineifyeswill said:
For gods sake, the guy had said his piece and was walking back to his van when he was deliberately run over, going by the responses on here I wouldnt like to meet some of you on a dark night.
And you know for absolute certainty that he hadn't said "I'm gonna get my hammer and bash your head in" or anything? Nothing threatening at all was said to the Civic driver?Did he stop his car (and upset the OP by doing so) to pop over and applaud the Civic driver for his driving skills and chat about the lovely weather?
No, we do not know what was said and we don't know how panicked the Civic driver (or his passenger) was.
Jasandjules said:
imagineifyeswill said:
For gods sake, the guy had said his piece and was walking back to his van when he was deliberately run over, going by the responses on here I wouldnt like to meet some of you on a dark night.
And you know for absolute certainty that he hadn't said "I'm gonna get my hammer and bash your head in" or anything? Nothing threatening at all was said to the Civic driver?Did he stop his car (and upset the OP by doing so) to pop over and applaud the Civic driver for his driving skills and chat about the lovely weather?
No, we do not know what was said and we don't know how panicked the Civic driver (or his passenger) was.
There is no rule in law to say that a person must wait to be struck first before they may defend themselves, (see R v Deana, 2 Cr App R 75).
http://www.cps.gov.uk/legal/s_to_u/self_defence/#P...
So it very much depends on what the van driver said as he walked away.
Had it been " Just wait there whilst I put an end to it" then I think I might have been inclined to make sure he didn't.
Johnnytheboy said:
Yet another topic that reinforces my view that you should do anything to avoid conflict with other road users, in case they turn out to be crazy.
I agree, but only now appreciate this in my older years. Yesterday, merging two lane to one at a common merge point I merged in early but some cars came down my left hand side. I did a zip merge letting a single car in and a large van alongside me wanted to get in behind. Car behind closed the gap and hit the horn then once van got in behind him he hit the brakes and stopped, holding up the van.
After a few parked cars the road split into two again, so for the sake of a few seconds delay (at worse) the car driver created a very volatile situation.
And last week I saw the aftermath of a mini and artic argument where it looked like the truck had forced the mini into the side of the road so he could "have a word".
It's a crazy world.
Jeez, some people just haven't got a clue. If you get out at lights and confront someone you have to have the mindset that they are going to be a loony with a shotgun, or you're going to get a nasty shock one day!! At least that van driver won't be holding people up at the lights any longer by getting out and starting a fight!
I'll reiterate my point again, that I DO NOT CONDONE RUNNING SOMEONE OVER and it is not something I'd do, BUT, there are nutters who WILL and you need to be wary about who you pick fights with!!
I'll reiterate my point again, that I DO NOT CONDONE RUNNING SOMEONE OVER and it is not something I'd do, BUT, there are nutters who WILL and you need to be wary about who you pick fights with!!
Fastra said:
Jasandjules said:
imagineifyeswill said:
For gods sake, the guy had said his piece and was walking back to his van when he was deliberately run over, going by the responses on here I wouldnt like to meet some of you on a dark night.
And you know for absolute certainty that he hadn't said "I'm gonna get my hammer and bash your head in" or anything? Nothing threatening at all was said to the Civic driver?Did he stop his car (and upset the OP by doing so) to pop over and applaud the Civic driver for his driving skills and chat about the lovely weather?
No, we do not know what was said and we don't know how panicked the Civic driver (or his passenger) was.
There is no rule in law to say that a person must wait to be struck first before they may defend themselves, (see R v Deana, 2 Cr App R 75).
http://www.cps.gov.uk/legal/s_to_u/self_defence/#P...
So it very much depends on what the van driver said as he walked away.
Had it been " Just wait there whilst I put an end to it" then I think I might have been inclined to make sure he didn't.
spitsfire said:
As a question of law (this being Scotland), the driver might find himself in serious soapy bubble. Depending on witness statements/video evidence/what he says if interviewed by the fuzz, he could be looking at an attempted murder charge, and deservedly so.
He only has a defence in law if he can show he had no other option but to drive his vehicle into an unarmed pedestrian. Looking at the road, that doesn't seem be the case - he could have waited until the van driver had passed in front, he could have reversed and gone to the side of him, etc etc.
He only has a defence in law if he can show he had no other option but to drive his vehicle into an unarmed pedestrian. Looking at the road, that doesn't seem be the case - he could have waited until the van driver had passed in front, he could have reversed and gone to the side of him, etc etc.
br d said:
This thread is parallel universe time. Whatever was said or initiated the Civic driver could have faced the bloke physically or driven away safely after the bloke left, instead he chose to deliberately run him over risking killing him.
I am stunned by the responses here.
Do you not understand that people do unpredictable things when they feel threatened? The only thing you can predict is the unpredictability of their response. I'd want one of my loved ones to do whatever they felt they had to do to preserve their safety. If it was my wife, yes run them over if you think you have to. We could deal with the consequences of that later but at least from a position where they were physically unharmed. I've got faith in the courts to decide what would be reasonable for a lone woman to do when threatened by an aggressive person, particularly male. Moral of the story (same as the litter thread) is eI am stunned by the responses here.
don't be surprised by (possibly horrific) aggression in response to your aggression and keep your trap shut if you aren't prepared to accept that.
Edited by 9mm on Sunday 29th March 15:57
br d said:
This thread is parallel universe time. Whatever was said or initiated the Civic driver could have faced the bloke physically or driven away safely after the bloke left, instead he chose to deliberately run him over risking killing him.
I am stunned by the responses here.
I'm stunned that you're stunned.I am stunned by the responses here.
You do realise that not everyone is the typical PH user don't you?
Said Civic driver might have been 8 stone ringing wet and not at all the confrontational type (I know, I know, but these weak types do exist...!!!), so after the tone of the conversation sank in, thought, not being in a rational frame of mind due to being scared witless, " f
k it, I;m not hanging round to find out"Just perhaps eh?
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