The dynamics and the point of fitting a strut brace?
Discussion
zeppelin101 said:
No, the 4WD X-Type was much more Jaguar than it was Ford.
The two share fewer parts than you would think, even in FWD guise.
Blame Clarkson, and the anti-British car industry media for that misjudged rumour. The two share fewer parts than you would think, even in FWD guise.
Sure there is platform sharing, however nothing like the amount of DNA that the VAG family share top to bottom. The X Type was a car that the media wanted to dislike from day one, and used the Mondeo link as it's main ammo ...... forgetting that the DNA sharing was relatively small, and that the Mondeo was actually a really good car too.
Same converse thing happened when the Rover 75 was launched. The media felt the need to give it's own a good kicking, and didn't mention the DNA which that car shared with the BMW E39 5 Series, including many stampings and rear suspension similarities.
It's a frustratingly very British thing to do ..... to play down the hard work and good qualities of products produced in our homeland, in a very unpatriotic way.
mwstewart said:
z06tim said:
Also, my experience of BMW saloon car torsional stiffness is that they were always competitive, if not class leading. So I very much doubt E46 will be considerably less than a contemporary Mondeo. However, all the other E46 derivatives which delete the sheet metal behind the rear seat will be less stiff than the saloon they are based on, and the convertible the least stiff.
Compare the stiffest E46 with the X-Type (old Mk3 Mondeo) - the Mondeo is stiffer.Alfa 159 - 31.400Nm/degree
Aston Martin DB9 Coupe 27,000 Nm/deg
Aston Martin DB9 Convertible 15,500 Nm/deg
Aston Martin Vanquish 28,500 Nm/deg
Audi TT Coupe 19,000 Nm/deg
Bugatti EB110 - 19,000 Nm/degree
BMW E36 Touring 10,900 Nm/deg
BMW E36 Z3 5,600 Nm/deg
BMW E46 Sedan (w/o folding seats) 18,000 Nm/deg
BMW E46 Sedan (w/folding seats) 13,000 Nm/deg
BMW E46 Wagon (w/folding seats) 14,000 Nm/deg
BMW E46 Coupe (w/folding seats) 12,500 Nm/deg
BMW E46 Convertible 10,500 Nm/deg
BMW X5 (2004) - 23,100 Nm/degree
BMW E90: 22,500 Nm/deg
BMW Z4 Coupe, 32,000Nm/degree
BMW Z4 Roadster: 14,500 Nm/deg
Bugatti Veyron - 60,000 Nm/degree
Chrysler Crossfire 20,140 Nm/deg
Chrysler Durango 6,800 Nm/deg
Chevrolet Corvette C5 9,100 Nm/deg
Dodge Viper Coupe 7,600 Nm/deg
Ferrari 360 Spider 8,500 Nm/deg
Ford GT: 27,100 Nm/deg
Ford GT40 MkI 17,000 Nm/deg
Ford Mustang 2003 16,000 Nm/deg
Ford Mustang 2005 21,000 Nm/deg
Ford Mustang Convertible (2003) 4,800 Nm/deg
Ford Mustang Convertible (2005) 9,500 Nm/deg
Jaguar X-Type Sedan 22,000 Nm/deg
Jaguar X-Type Estate 16,319 Nm/deg
Koenigsegg - 28.100 Nm/degree
Lambo Murcielago 20,000 Nm/deg
Lotus Elan 7,900 Nm/deg
Lotus Elan GRP body 8,900 Nm/deg
Lotus Elise 10,000 Nm/deg
Lotus Elise 111s 11,000 Nm/deg
Lotus Esprit SE Turbo 5,850 Nm/deg
Maserati QP - 18.000 nm/degree
McLaren F1 13,500 Nm/deg
Mercedes SL - With top down 17,000 Nm/deg, with top up 21,000 Nm/deg
Mini (2003) 24,500 Nm/deg
Pagani Zonda C12 S 26,300 Nm/deg
Pagani Zonda F - 27,000 Nm/degree
Porsche 911 Turbo (2000) 13,500 Nm/deg
Porsche 959 12,900 Nm/deg
Porsche Carrera GT - 26,000Nm/degree
Rolls-Royce Phantom - 40,500 Nm/degree
Volvo S60 20,000 Nm/deg
Audi A2: 11,900 Nm/deg
Audi A8: 25,000 Nm/deg
Audi TT: 10,000 Nm/deg (22Hz)
Golf V GTI: 25,000 Nm/deg
Chevrolet Cobalt: 28 Hz
Ferrari 360: 1,474 kgm/degree (bending: 1,032 kg/mm)
Ferrari 355: 1,024 kgm/degree (bending: 727 kg/mm)
Ferrari 430: supposedly 20% higher than 360
Renault Sport Spider: 10,000 Nm/degree
Volvo S80: 18,600 Nm/deg
Koenigsegg CC-8: 28,100 Nm/deg
Porsche 911 Turbo 996: 27,000 Nm/deg
Porsche 911 Turbo 996 Convertible: 11,600 Nm/deg
Porsche 911 Carrera Type 997: 33,000 Nm/deg
Lotus Elise S2 Exige (2004): 10,500 Nm/deg
Volkswagen Fox: 17,941 Nm/deg
VW Phaeton - 37,000 Nm/degree
VW Passat (2006) - 32,400 Nm/degree
Ferrari F50: 34,600 Nm/deg
Lambo Gallardo: 23000 Nm/deg
Mazda Rx-8: 30,000 Nm/deg
Mazda Rx-7: ~15,000 Nm/deg
Mazda RX8 - 30,000 Nm/degree
Saab 9-3 Sportcombi - 21,000 Nm/degree
Opel Astra - 12,000 Nm/degree
Land rover Freelander 2 - 28,000 Nm/degree
Lamborghini Countach 2,600 Nm/deg
Ford Focus 3d 19.600 Nm/deg
Ford Focus 5d 17.900 Nm/deg
I think following the drive for safety starting with the '90's airbag era most things now have a shell stiff enough to facilitate decent suspension operation on UK roads.
z06tim said:
TooMany2cvs said:
z06tim said:
However, I don't think it is quite fair to quote that as the torsional stiffness of the Mondeo of the time. Jag did quite a lot of re-engineering of that platform. It was after all a different wheelbase, an AWD installation, and I'm sure a heavier car, at least as its fully optioned derivative.
The 2wd X-types were FWD, just as the 2wd Mondeos, and the AWD X-types were just as AWD as the AWD Mondeos were...http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?t=130...
CD132 platform under the Mk3 Mondildo & X-type was a development of the CDW27 under the Mk1/2 Mondildo.
TooMany2cvs said:
This, with bells on.
The one that really makes me laugh, though, is the uprated door latches (oops, "door stabilizers") that you can get for GT86s - a friend fitted them and swore blind that he could feel the difference commuting to work...
Think you're embellishing that a littleThe one that really makes me laugh, though, is the uprated door latches (oops, "door stabilizers") that you can get for GT86s - a friend fitted them and swore blind that he could feel the difference commuting to work...
I don't remember saying that Mr. C . . .
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