Council Bankrupt/****ing money up a tree - Parking Ticket

[feef]

Jimboka said:

I'd pay the £25 but make sure I used more than £25 of services as I'm childish like that. Go to the tip a few more times etc to get my money's worth!
Also boycott the local shops for a while, go to another town where they are a bit more reasonable..

The local shops? How is that going to affect the council? It'll affect the business and the land/property owners, but not the council.

[Ares]

Pothole said:

Ares said:

OpulentBob said:

charltjr said:

Yep, I've found myself doing that.

I've been ticketed in that situation too.

I thought "bks, fair enough though, I'm the one who went over the time limit" and paid it.

Clearly I should have pissed many hours of my time and other people's time up the wall because it's so unfair. I wish I wasn't so weak.

+1

Was it a minute late according to your watch, or the ticket machine?

Personally, I think late is late, and if you know you're late - and, crucially, you weren't aware of the 3 minute grace period until AFTER you'd appealed, moaned, and then gone to the CEO of the Council (I bet you used the "I'll go to your boss" line on the parking officer?) - and you still carry on, then you can't complain about the costs. You instigated the appeal after you were caught overstaying your parking. The 3 minute grace thing didn't become apparant until after you'd started the appeal, if I'm reading it right, so your argument that you were within time is wrong.

(You = OP, obv)

My original argument was that the ticket had clearly been issued before expiration. In the one minute that had passed, he couldn't possibly have completed all the details, taken the photos, issued the tickets and walking half-a-dozen car lengths.

I could see my car for best part of a minute before reaching it and he wasn't there.

Your original argument on here was that the council wasted a load of money dealing with your complaint. They provided a full and complete response as far as they see it, running to 127 pages. (Really? I call custard test as you surely wouldn't have thrown that away, would you?)

I'm sure it's been raised but there is no such thing as absolute time. If the warden's watch is a bit fast, the parking ticket machine a bit out of sync with your watch, a mistake can easily occur. I don't know where you've got the idea that a warden has to wait until the time has expired before starting to write a ticket because I don't think that's ever been the case.

My original comment on here was the waste of time.
My original complaint to the council was the incompatibility of the timings.

And I'm afraid there is absolute time. Thats why these devices require calibration. Something that is being timed to the minute (to the second?) needs to ensure that either it is 100% accurate, or that sufficient leeway is given.

[Otispunkmeyer]

poing said:

Issi said:

Zod said:

Issi said:

If he was, I bet you a pound that he was 'ONLY' a couple of minutes late.

Wow the tosser brigade are out responding to this one! He states that he was one minute late.

You know when you get a library book out and it states 'To be returned by the 20th'. Do you think it means return by the 20th or round about the 20th?

You know when the sign states 'parking limited for 1hr only'? Do you think it means 1hr only or 1hr and a few minutes?

So I assume your watch is synchronised to the local parking ticket people (not even going to guess what they are officially called this week) and checked daily? It was 1 minute over on that persons watch, but what if it was 1 minute under on your watch?

This is why there is a 3 minute margin. I think this is being increased by some councils to 10 minutes.

10 minutes grace seems reasonable to me, 3 is a bit tight fisted.

Reasonable.

Theres a word thats missing from many councils vocab. Along with the words:

Common
Sense
Logical
Value

And I am sure there are many more

[Ares]

Otispunkmeyer said:

10 minutes grace seems reasonable to me, 3 is a bit tight fisted.

Reasonable.

Theres a word thats missing from many councils vocab. Along with the words:

Common
Sense
Logical
Value

And I am sure there are many more

"Customer'?

Seems to be missing from every Public Sector body in the UK...and ironically every 'Public Servant'.

[Jagmanv12]

Pothole said:

I don't know where you've got the idea that a warden has to wait until the time has expired before starting to write a ticket because I don't think that's ever been the case.

Until the time has expired the parker has not overstayed and therefore should not be issued a ticket. Any attendant writing out tickets early should be dismissed for dishonesty.

[Ares]

Jagmanv12 said:

Pothole said:

I don't know where you've got the idea that a warden has to wait until the time has expired before starting to write a ticket because I don't think that's ever been the case.

Until the time has expired the parker has not overstayed and therefore should not be issued a ticket. Any attendant writing out tickets early should be dismissed for dishonesty.

Exactly!

[Ares]

......and this is before you factor in that by using 'PayByPhone' for on street parking, wardens get notifications of when cars are about to expire so they can catch them without resorting to 'luck'.

One step away from entrapment.


There was a time when Traffic Wardens were there to ensure traffic could flow. Now they are little more than council cash collectors.

[Type R Tom]

Does it matter when the ticket was written? Assuming it was printed after the time on your ticket ran out then there isn’t a problem. Bit like an email / txt etc. you can write it when you like but the sent time is at the top.

Do us a favour and post a pic of your P&D ticket and council issued parking ticket? Sorry OP, I just find it hard to except the circumstances you describe.

[xRIEx]

Ares said:

......and this is before you factor in that by using 'PayByPhone' for on street parking, wardens get notifications of when cars are about to expire so they can catch them without resorting to 'luck'.

One step away from entrapment.

But the great thing about PayByPhone is you can extend the parking if you need to, without going back to your car.

[Ares]

xRIEx said:

Ares said:

......and this is before you factor in that by using 'PayByPhone' for on street parking, wardens get notifications of when cars are about to expire so they can catch them without resorting to 'luck'.

One step away from entrapment.

But the great thing about PayByPhone is you can extend the parking if you need to, without going back to your car.

....not at the end of 2 hours you can't!

[Ares]

Type R Tom said:

Does it matter when the ticket was written? Assuming it was printed after the time on your ticket ran out then there isn’t a problem. Bit like an email / txt etc. you can write it when you like but the sent time is at the top.

Do us a favour and post a pic of your P&D ticket and council issued parking ticket? Sorry OP, I just find it hard to except the circumstances you describe.

See above - no P&D ticket, all done via PbP app. But I'll dig that out, and the parking ticket.

[xRIEx]

Ares said:

xRIEx said:

Ares said:

......and this is before you factor in that by using 'PayByPhone' for on street parking, wardens get notifications of when cars are about to expire so they can catch them without resorting to 'luck'.

One step away from entrapment.

But the great thing about PayByPhone is you can extend the parking if you need to, without going back to your car.

....not at the end of 2 hours you can't!

Ah, see what you mean - 2 hours is the maximum stay allowed?

[nottyash]

Give your job up and claim benefits, you will get away with it.
You could even burn down the council offices if you wish and they might give you a caution.

[Pan Pan Pan]

Having just got back from a trip to Belgium and France where it seems parking in the many places I visited was completely free, This money grabbing practice, which seems to be limited more or less exclusively to the UK is pretty shabby.
So shabby in fact that even the government just have passed legislation to stop councils indulging in this money grabbing, with menaces practice. And lets not go near having to pay for parking at hospitals, which is quite frankly a disgusting practice.
It would not be so bad if councils were honest in the way they deal with motorists who go a few minutes over a paid for parking slot. But the fact is that they are not, and of course everything is perfect and efficient in the ways councils deal with the public isn't it?
The fact that people in the UK have to pay for parking in the way that we do, may just be a factor of living in an overcrowded little island, with a rapidly growing population, but having just having had the contrast of being able to park every where for free in France and Belgium, whilst being charged exorbitant fees for a few minutes parking here, does rather show the UK to be run by nasty money grabbing little Hitler councils, trying to cover up their wasteful inefficiency by extracting cash from the `usual' target... Motorists.

[jonm01]

My wife parked in the car park in our local town recently, bought a ticket and as she went to display it another shopper gave her their ticket which had plenty of spare time on it. My wife stuck it on the dash with the one shed just bought. Got a fine for adding additional time to her ticket. (which she hadn't) I wrote to the council but they wouldn't rescind it. So she had legitimately bought a ticket for a space but still had to pay a fine. And they wonder why people are deserting the high streets.

[new666uk]

Simply ask that they prove that the officer was fully and correctly attired in the performance of their duty as required under section 76(3) of the Traffic Management Act 2004;

(3) Civil enforcement officers-
(a) when exercising specified functions must wear such uniform as may be determined by the enforcement authority in accordance with guidelines issued by the appropriate national authority, and; (b) must not exercise any of those functions when not in uniform;

and, with the guidance given in section 42 of the Secretary of State’s Statutory Guidance (2008);
42. When exercising prescribed functions a CEO must wear a uniform. The uniform should clearly show:
that the wearer is engaged in parking enforcement;

the name of the local authority/authorities of whose behalf s/he is acting; and;
a personal identity number.

As the wearing of uniform by the CEO (Civil Enforcement Officer) is mandatory when serving a PCN, I requested the Council provide clear and unambiguous evidence that the CEO was wearing full uniform in compliance with section 76(3)(a) and with the guidance given in section 42 of the Secretary of State’s Statutory Guidance (2008) on the 5th May 2012.

Since it is a mandatory requirement, the burden of proof remains with the enforcement authority. This principle is supported in the adjudication case between Derek Jack Hayward v London Borough of Croydon.

I have no idea what a fully liveried up officer should look like or how to tell them from an imposter.

Good luck.

[GC8]

The Mad Monk said:

Did you overstay your time, or not?

Fair play to you there - being a massive in the first reply.

I doff my hat to you.

[xRIEx]

Pan Pan Pan said:

Having just got back from a trip to Belgium and France where it seems parking in the many places I visited was completely free, This money grabbing practice, which seems to be limited more or less exclusively to the UK is pretty shabby.

[VolvoT5]

I think when it comes to parking issues councils have a lot to answer for. They see the motorist as fair game and don't seem to worry about the obvious knock-on effects of making parking in town centres impossible. They make everything pedestrianised, remove large amounts of parking and then charge eye watering prices for what remains and then act surprised when all the shops shut down bar the charity shops and pawn brokers.

I think generally councils once elected totally forget about the fact they are supposed to be serving US and are spending our money... and instead go power mad spending sprees in order to do whatever fits their agenda. Crazy.

Even if the ticket was correct (and it sounds like OP has a good case), is it really good use of money to be chasing payment this hard? And given the fact that many of these parking operators are incentivised to issue tickets (or punished for not) I wouldn't be at all surprised if they pull a few stunts to issue more tickets more quickly.

Edited by VolvoT5 on Friday 10th April 19:07

[Type R Tom]

Everyone talk about a "performance related pay" for traffic wardens but I'm yet to see a copy of a contract with that in.