S2000 comedy pricing and Z3 2.8 for near shed money

[Aquafambublish]

Cars go up in value because they are rare and desirable. The S2000 was never sold in large numbers and nothing like it will be produced again thanks to legislation changes. Normally asperated high revving performance engines in this segment are being replaced by forced induction. BMW have their turbo straight 6 and Porsche are rumoured to be going the same way with 4 cylinders.

The S2000 is virtually unique (at this price) in having a chassis and engine that shares no parts with other vehicles, even the instrumentation is bespoke.

Desirability will always be subjective. For me, nothing beats changing down at 60 mph to third (6,000 rpm) and flooring it to 90 mph (9,000 rpm). I own a BMW 235i that has so much power and torque low down that there seems little point in using the top part of the rev range. It can be driven extremely quickly almost without regard to the gear selected. The S2000 requires greater concentration, skill and commitment to drive fast. In other words more involvement.

Luckily I get to drive my wife's pristine 2006 S2000 which she has owned since new. I'm a lucky boy!

[akirk]

daveofedinburgh said:

Since realising that 3.0 Z4s can be had for not much more than £5K, I probably wouldn't look at another Z3.

For many, the z4 (while more sophisticated / quieter / etc.) is not as good a car as the z3 - subjective, perhaps, but worth considering...
if you want fun in a z3 - buy the 3.0l or if you can stretch to it the z3m - plenty of fun to be had

[Coldfuse]

I'm looking to sell mine this summer so this thread is a pleasant surprise

[mikey k]

forzaminardi said:

The S2000, whether we like them or not, is regarded as a bit of a classic car. It has character, a personality and is a unique, bespoke model that was a one-off in Honda's line up without a direct predecessor or successor. The BMW Z3, though many rate it as a great car, is just simply an old BMW sports car, one in a line of BMW sports cars and probably regarded as old hat compared to the latest. The BMW would have to be quite a bit older and in top condition to begin appreciating significantly, I think. Being a classic has little to do with a car's real merits: I loved my S2000 but it had some real flaws, too. Possibly a Z3 would have been in many ways a 'better' car, but for me, the S2000's mad engine, charisma and the Honda nerdiness were very appealing.

I bought my S2000 almost exactly a year ago for £9k (2007, 37k miles) and I figured I'd sell it next summer for maybe £13k, judging by how prices were going. I won't get the chance to see if that theory works, as I wrote it off a couple of weeks ago .... but the insurers valued it at £11,600 based, they said, on industry guides and two similar examples on Autotrader. When I looked at using that money to get a replacement S2000, I didn't think I'd get one as good as mine had been, so there we go...

Sorry to say it but this is part of the reason S2k's are going up in value.
There wasn't that many made and every year more and more get written off.
Post 04 pre march 06 cars are in demand because they have all the benefits of hte "facelift" with out the higher tax
GT's (with hardtops) also command a premium though I still don't get why
Group 20 insurance for 240 BHP doesn't seem to have put many off either.

last summer I bought an Orange one as a keeper for these reasons

Edited by mikey k on Friday 3rd April 17:08

[daveofedinburgh]

akirk said:

For many, the z4 (while more sophisticated / quieter / etc.) is not as good a car as the z3 - subjective, perhaps, but worth considering...
if you want fun in a z3 - buy the 3.0l or if you can stretch to it the z3m - plenty of fun to be had

I'm not denigrating the Z3 at all, infact I believe it to be criminally underrated.

I think the main issue with them is how soft and effette (read: 'hairdressery') most people consider them to be, rather than any serious lack of quality/ performance/ vfm. I really don't pay too much attention to what people think of me, but the Z3 just has zero respect from the leyman and PHer alike. Avoid them if your after any kind of status/ kudos!

Aside from getting the largest engine budget will allow, I'd strongly advise getting a post facelift (2000>) as they have the wide rear arches which transform the overall look/ stance. I paid £1750- at this point there are lots of 1.9 4s (same great little engine in the E36 318is), but I'd strongly suggest any of the 6 cylinder engines over this for the top-down sound alone.

As with any of these type of cars, it really must be a manual. The box in mine is a Getrag apparently, and the shift is as good as most of the 'superior' cars I've owned. Wait for an example with leather, and the 'M' steering wheel etc.

[daemon]

akirk said:

if you can stretch to it the z3m - plenty of fun to be had

Low miles z3m's are now around £20K. 100K ones with incomplete histories are around £13,000.

Thats for convertibles. Breadvans are probably +£8K on top of that.

[Riskins]

Interesting thread as I have been watching s2000 prices for some time and just hit the bullet and bought an '05 model. My anticipation is that I can own, maintain and enjoy the car for a few years without much, if any depreciation.

The only car which I saw as comparable was the Boxster, but I scared myself with the potential engine issues so that became a no.

Been a big Honda fan over the years having had x2 DC2's, DC5, EG6 SiRII Civic and a supercharged EP3 CTR but after the 100 mile journey home with the roof down yesterday I can say this is the most fun I have had in a Honda.

Few jobs in it to do but all the important stuff is good so roll on a sunny summer.

[CRA1G]

daemon said:

Low miles z3m's are now around £20K. 100K ones with incomplete histories are around £13,000.

Thats for convertibles. Breadvans are probably +£8K on top of that.

Low mile mint Breadvans have been changing Hands recently for near on £45K...!!! I think they are going to be a great future classic...!!!

But I maybe a little bias...

[carreauchompeur]

Craig, you can't talk up your ENTIRE Dakar fleet to raise the prices

I wish I'd bought a Breadvan a while back, however even then the prices were going up and up.

I hear the smart money these days is going into e36 m3 wendyhouses...

[LP670]

would have loved to have owned an s2000 at some point as a second or third car but its not going to happen now with the current prices. whats the reason for the rarity? did they not sell well at the time or did we only get a certain allocation of cars?

[carreauchompeur]

I think quite a few have ended up in hedges

Also, as with any cheapish performance car the amount of unmolested examples diminishes with time...

[Welshbeef]

The S2000 is a lovely car decent power hand built engines

Crazy 128bhp/ltr that's top end Ferrari N/A output levels in a cheap car.

Looks lovely
Engine noise and Rev range perfect

Future classic? Very likely.

[CRA1G]

carreauchompeur said:

Craig, you can't talk up your ENTIRE Dakar fleet to raise the prices

I wish I'd bought a Breadvan a while back, however even then the prices were going up and up.

I hear the smart money these days is going into e36 m3 wendyhouses...

Now who's been a little bias... but I hope yor right...

[anonymous-user]

Never realized the values were on the up, I guess it's obvious. Every flawed car has it's fan base and Honda produced a fantastic engine in a chassis that always struggled to restrain it. Good looking car and desirable, in a way, but for driver involvement i'd be investing in a Boxster S. There has to be a time where really good ones start bouncing back, far too much car for the money.

[telecat]

Saw an S2000 the other day. It's rather bland looking and honestly it's never had much character. I wouldn't mind a Z3. Wasn't there a thread about how changing tyres transformed the Z3's handling from a skittish, under gripped plank into a decent corner master?

[mikey k]

yonex said:

Never realized the values were on the up, I guess it's obvious. Every flawed car has it's fan base and Honda produced a fantastic engine in a chassis that always struggled to restrain it. Good looking car and desirable, in a way, but for driver involvement i'd be investing in a Boxster S.

Cobblers!
Nothing flawed about it, far from it, it was solely designed as a drivers car with very very little sourced from other Honda's
All it takes is a decent geometry and half decent tyres
I've had 5 of them amongst the inumerable powerful cars (inclduing a boxster briefly ) and the S2k is still one of the best drivers cars when its well set up
There in lies the problem - badly set up or in the hands of a FWD supremo its a ditch finder
That's the nature of a high reving RWD car with no traction control

[mikey k]

carreauchompeur said:

I think quite a few have ended up in hedges

Also, as with any cheapish performance car the amount of unmolested examples diminishes with time...

Absolutely both reasons they are getting rarer and appreciating
If you think S2ki prices are stupid take a look at this!

Allegedly Jenson Buttons old NSX for £110k

http://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds/used-cars/h...

[mikey k]

LP670 said:

would have loved to have owned an s2000 at some point as a second or third car but its not going to happen now with the current prices. whats the reason for the rarity? did they not sell well at the time or did we only get a certain allocation of cars?

Limited run and limited UK supply
They also sat in a bit of an empty middle ground
Too similar to an MX5 and a lot more expensive for many and not as much kudos as boxsters etc

[Hasbeen]

Four years ago I decided I deserved a nice soft top daily driver. It had to look OK & have enough go to pass farm traffic doing 90Km/H in the little short straights around here, in stock trim. It had to be a manual, be a bit of fun in the twisty coastal ranges, & cost less than $35,000. It also had to have reasonable, but not necessarily cheap maintenance costs.

Looks, performance & price eliminated all but the Z3 & 4s, & the S2000 for me. The Z3 looked best, but did not really drive well enough when tried. Of the other 2, the S2000 was a little better all round, but offers much better reliability, & lower running costs, so it was the Honda I brought home.

I have not been sorry. The fact that I had a lady friend who ran an S600 & S800 back in the day, which I drove regularly may have had some effect on my choice. Of the 3 Honda S models, the S800 was the most fun. Actually in the day, narrow tyres on 4" wide wheels made the sports cars of the 60s more fun to drive, if not very quick.

[motco]

S2000 insurance is very much higher than the Z3. The BMW is more refined but the Honda is brutally quick but crude-ish. Pays you money. We have one of each here (2003 S2000 and 2002 Z3 plus a 2006 Z4M Coupé).