S2000 comedy pricing and Z3 2.8 for near shed money
Discussion
mikey k said:
Cobblers!
Nothing flawed about it, far from it, it was solely designed as a drivers car with very very little sourced from other Honda's
All it takes is a decent geometry and half decent tyres
I've had 5 of them amongst the inumerable powerful cars (inclduing a boxster briefly
) and the S2k is still one of the best drivers cars when its well set up 
There in lies the problem - badly set up or in the hands of a FWD supremo its a ditch finder
That's the nature of a high reving RWD car with no traction control
Having owned both an NSX and 240HP Caterham I think I know what I like. I tried to like them and borrowed three different model years for long (long) drives. Personally I always felt the DC2 was a league above it, despite the engine, which is a masterpiece, the steering and general chassis balance (for me) was always way out. It never felt like it was settled and gave little confidence to get on the power hard, which is what I want from any car, especially rwd. The insurance costs show exactly the problem. A while back a guy over on S2ki argued and argued how it was just everyone else who couldn't drive etc, etc and that they were perfectly stable in the wet as long as you weren't a loony. fast forward a year or so and he span it into the barriers on the motorway. To say it's not flawed is just totally incorrect, lack of steering feel and harshly damped rear end is hardly the recipe for speed Nothing flawed about it, far from it, it was solely designed as a drivers car with very very little sourced from other Honda's
All it takes is a decent geometry and half decent tyres
I've had 5 of them amongst the inumerable powerful cars (inclduing a boxster briefly
) and the S2k is still one of the best drivers cars when its well set up There in lies the problem - badly set up or in the hands of a FWD supremo its a ditch finder
That's the nature of a high reving RWD car with no traction control
Each to their own but as a huge Honda fan I would have had one but it left me cold. High revving engine which begged to be driven with a chassis that couldn't handle the average bumpy back road. As I said everyone loves an underdog, the prices reflect this.
Got to agree about the unresolved handling - I have a 2000 DC2 and a 2001 S2000. I race cars and have access to hunter laser alignment, so I've had plenty of time to setup both the cars and run many different setups and tyre combinations. The back end is just too uncompromising, combined with a very pointy front end.
The DC2 chassis is a league above, it's just plain fantastic and perhaps my favourite handling car despite being 'wrong wheel drive'. The S2000 I've had for a couple of years and struggled to get a setup I'm really happy with. I've replaced the rear subframe with a 2005 version (without the toe-out bump-steer antics) which made it better, but it's nowhere near as much fun as say a mrk1 MX5 for instance.
There is loads of mechanical grip, so I don't have a problem getting on the power early, but it's not really a natural drift machine like an MX5. Feels quite a lot like driving a mid engined car (perhaps having the engine so far back in the chassis contributes to this). On track, opposite lock can be a frantic activity if have over 3/4 of a turn on and hit a bump as the back of the car does unsettle easily. this combined with steering that is very quick - you need to be very precise with it - means you need to be on the ball. At first I thought 'I like a challenge', but after a couple of years it's clear something just isn't quite right with how these cars handle - they dont have a natural balance.
I've worked through it and come up with a setup I like - my car is fun to drive, but put it this way, I usually do a euro trip each year and every time I've driven the Col De Turini in the S2000 I've been wishing I had been in the DC2 (I've driven both over it several times). The Col is quite a bumpy road, the combination of the DC2's better chassis and better (shorter) gearing just makes it's sublime. The S2000 is frustrating in comparison. I find the gearing in 2nd and 3rd too long - I have a super light flywheel in my S2000, but I may put a shorter diff on it.
I plan to keep both - the sound of the S2000 with the top down going through tunnels in Italy in the summer (standard exhaust, but K&N induction kit) never gets boring. I love the look of them, the gear change and the engine, but I agree about the chassis.
The DC2 chassis is a league above, it's just plain fantastic and perhaps my favourite handling car despite being 'wrong wheel drive'. The S2000 I've had for a couple of years and struggled to get a setup I'm really happy with. I've replaced the rear subframe with a 2005 version (without the toe-out bump-steer antics) which made it better, but it's nowhere near as much fun as say a mrk1 MX5 for instance.
There is loads of mechanical grip, so I don't have a problem getting on the power early, but it's not really a natural drift machine like an MX5. Feels quite a lot like driving a mid engined car (perhaps having the engine so far back in the chassis contributes to this). On track, opposite lock can be a frantic activity if have over 3/4 of a turn on and hit a bump as the back of the car does unsettle easily. this combined with steering that is very quick - you need to be very precise with it - means you need to be on the ball. At first I thought 'I like a challenge', but after a couple of years it's clear something just isn't quite right with how these cars handle - they dont have a natural balance.
I've worked through it and come up with a setup I like - my car is fun to drive, but put it this way, I usually do a euro trip each year and every time I've driven the Col De Turini in the S2000 I've been wishing I had been in the DC2 (I've driven both over it several times). The Col is quite a bumpy road, the combination of the DC2's better chassis and better (shorter) gearing just makes it's sublime. The S2000 is frustrating in comparison. I find the gearing in 2nd and 3rd too long - I have a super light flywheel in my S2000, but I may put a shorter diff on it.
I plan to keep both - the sound of the S2000 with the top down going through tunnels in Italy in the summer (standard exhaust, but K&N induction kit) never gets boring. I love the look of them, the gear change and the engine, but I agree about the chassis.
yonex said:
Having owned both an NSX and 240HP Caterham I think I know what I like. I tried to like them and borrowed three different model years for long (long) drives. Personally I always felt the DC2 was a league above it, despite the engine, which is a masterpiece, the steering and general chassis balance (for me) was always way out. It never felt like it was settled and gave little confidence to get on the power hard, which is what I want from any car, especially rwd. The insurance costs show exactly the problem. A while back a guy over on S2ki argued and argued how it was just everyone else who couldn't drive etc, etc and that they were perfectly stable in the wet as long as you weren't a loony. fast forward a year or so and he span it into the barriers on the motorway. To say it's not flawed is just totally incorrect, lack of steering feel and harshly damped rear end is hardly the recipe for speed
Each to their own but as a huge Honda fan I would have had one but it left me cold. High revving engine which begged to be driven with a chassis that couldn't handle the average bumpy back road. As I said everyone loves an underdog, the prices reflect this.
Each to their own but as a huge Honda fan I would have had one but it left me cold. High revving engine which begged to be driven with a chassis that couldn't handle the average bumpy back road. As I said everyone loves an underdog, the prices reflect this.
forzaminardi said:
Only dented pride so far as I'm concerned, thanks for asking
Car wasn't pretty though.
Were you taking my brother out for a test drive when you wrote it off? Noticed you are in Scotland and we were in Falkirk when it happenedCar wasn't pretty though.
Test drive ended like this:
Edited by rossmc88 on Tuesday 7th April 10:39
Edited by rossmc88 on Tuesday 7th April 10:40
rossmc88 said:
forzaminardi said:
Only dented pride so far as I'm concerned, thanks for asking
Car wasn't pretty though.
Were you taking my brother out for a test drive when you wrote it off? Noticed you are in Scotland and we were in Falkirk when it happenedCar wasn't pretty though.
Test drive ended like this:
Edited by rossmc88 on Tuesday 7th April 10:39
Edited by rossmc88 on Tuesday 7th April 10:40
rossmc88 said:
forzaminardi said:
Only dented pride so far as I'm concerned, thanks for asking
Car wasn't pretty though.
Were you taking my brother out for a test drive when you wrote it off? Noticed you are in Scotland and we were in Falkirk when it happenedCar wasn't pretty though.
Test drive ended like this:
Edited by rossmc88 on Tuesday 7th April 10:39
Edited by rossmc88 on Tuesday 7th April 10:40
Can just imagine the advertisement for the car, something along the lines of "You are welcome to view the car but all test drives will be driven by myself, as these cars are true drivers cars and take some getting used to... blah blah w
k wk"Then backs it through a hedge.
Reardy Mister said:
Can just imagine the advertisement for the car, something along the lines of "You are welcome to view the car but all test drives will be driven by myself, as these cars are true drivers cars and take some getting used to... blah blah w
k wk"Then backs it through a hedge.
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