RE: VW Golf R: PH Fleet

[ORD]

Crafty_ said:

Blown2CV said:

There seems to be this strange groundswell in the R's detractors that feel that unless it can be proven to be the best car ever made, then it's worthless.

And to counter it, there is plenty of groundswell in the fans that say its the best car ever.

If you like golfs you'll probably like it a lot.
If not you may well have a different opinion.

For me, ultimately it doesn't make we want to jump in the car and go drive somewhere. It doesn't want me want to go throw it down a b road. It didn't even really make me want to spend time inside the thing. But we're all different, I personally don't see what the hype is about.

A lot of truth in that. If you don't like Golfs (and I don't), you wont like the R; equally, if you don't like AWD, you wont like the R; if you don't like smallish capacity turbo motors, you wont like the R.

[Crafty_]

Ironically, on paper a 2 litre turbo with AWD sounds pretty good to me. It just doesn't translate when I actually get in one.

It could be so much better. Ah well, I've subsequently sold myself to the Bavarians so we'll see how that goes !

[Ali_T]

Blown2CV said:

How many fires in the belly does £30k get you in the wider market? Not many. How many does £280pcm get you? None.

I got it from the Alfa and the Focus ST. They were just much more fun, if slower and less omni-competent. Old school hot hatches, for sure, but that made me smile. The Golf is a go really fast from A to B without breaking a sweat car. That appeals to some, Broccers included, just not to me anymore. Even the Evo X had to be driven it like a freaking lunatic to be able to feel why it was special, and I only ever felt that 2-3 times in 3 years. I'm hoping the Focus can manage the impossible. As fast as the A45, as characterful as the STI 330S and with the involvement of the older Evos. If anyone can do it, it's probably Ford. Though I have it on good authority that Alfa will finally be fielding a 300bhp+ AWD competitor in the next 2 years.

[Gio G]

Crafty_ said:

And to counter it, there is plenty of groundswell in the fans that say its the best car ever.

If you like golfs you'll probably like it a lot.
If not you may well have a different opinion.

For me, ultimately it doesn't make we want to jump in the car and go drive somewhere. It doesn't want me want to go throw it down a b road. It didn't even really make me want to spend time inside the thing. But we're all different, I personally don't see what the hype is about.

I would have to agree with this. The R is a great practical car, making fun of the boring duties I do on a day to day basis. However if I want something fun for back road blasting, I would pick up the keys to Cayman.

[nunpuncher]

RoverP6B said:

Don't need to, knowing how the Haldex system works and reading owners' testimonies that it's just not playful or adjustable are enough to put one off. Really, the Golf R serves only to highlight what jolly good value an M135i is - now, if only that was naturally-aspirated...

You've clearly never driven the M135i either then. I owned one for 18 months and playful and adjustable are not words that I would use when talking about it. A good car in it's own right but no, never those words.

[Tony33]

Ali_T said:

I got it from the Alfa and the Focus ST. They were just much more fun

You are aware these are not RWD and therefore not enjoyable do you? It has been proven in Latin (which makes it pretty much the law) previously in this thread.

[nickfrog]

nunpuncher said:

RoverP6B said:

Don't need to, knowing how the Haldex system works and reading owners' testimonies that it's just not playful or adjustable are enough to put one off. Really, the Golf R serves only to highlight what jolly good value an M135i is - now, if only that was naturally-aspirated...

You've clearly never driven the M135i either then. I owned one for 18 months and playful and adjustable are not words that I would use when talking about it. A good car in it's own right but no, never those words.

While I agree overall, I think it can be playful and adjustable. He seems to think so too (and no he doesn't have a Quaife on it) : https://www.youtube.com/watch?t=132&v=KQrKEiUH...

[Blown2CV]

Crafty_ said:

Blown2CV said:

There seems to be this strange groundswell in the R's detractors that feel that unless it can be proven to be the best car ever made, then it's worthless.

And to counter it, there is plenty of groundswell in the fans that say its the best car ever.

If you like golfs you'll probably like it a lot.
If not you may well have a different opinion.

For me, ultimately it doesn't make we want to jump in the car and go drive somewhere. It doesn't want me want to go throw it down a b road. It didn't even really make me want to spend time inside the thing. But we're all different, I personally don't see what the hype is about.

I didn't really care about Golfs before and I still think it's pretty good. At no point would I say it's the best car ever.

[Ali_T]

Tony33 said:

ou are aware these are not RWD and therefore not enjoyable do you? It has been proven in Latin (which makes it pretty much the law) previously in this thread.

True, but most people that can speak Latin are generally bellends so I try to ignore them in the hope they go away..

Edited by Ali_T on Tuesday 14th April 01:55

[Blown2CV]

I'll try and suppress my boredom driving around the Highlands and Islands of Scotland next month... Oh woe is me if only I had a slightly different car my life would change immeasurably.

[RoverP6B]

Blown2CV said:

There seems to be this strange groundswell in the R's detractors that feel that unless it can be proven to be the best car ever made, then it's worthless.

Not at all. There's no such thing as the best car ever made, and a lot of what might make a vehicle objectively superior may actually also make it less appealing to enthusiast drivers. Is there even such a thing as objectively superior? A lot of different people have different views of what superior means. Now, there's a lot the Golf R probably does very well. I'm sure it's well-put-together, handles pretty decently up to the limit, goes like buggery, has plenty of space inside for what it is and all that... but somehow it's just missing the petrolhead appeal... even when the Golf R had a VR6, I'd have chosen a 130i or an Alfa Romeo 147 GTA (despite the wrong-wheel-drive) every time - and now it's just a turbo four... no thanks.

I just think the bloody thing has been ridiculously overhyped. It's not a supercar. It's not a sports car. It's not even a particularly exciting hot hatch. It's just a normal, humdrum daily shopping car that happens to be sodding quick.

nunpuncher said:

You've clearly never driven the M135i either then. I owned one for 18 months and playful and adjustable are not words that I would use when talking about it. A good car in it's own right but no, never those words.

Even with 320bhp and 330ftlb all over the rev range, plus RWD? If BMW have somehow managed to rob that of its adjustability, they really have lost it... most reviews I've seen seem to suggest it's happy to get its tail out to varying extents, whether you want to go full drift thug or just trim your line into the corner on the throttle... I confess I have little to no interest in modern BMWs, having had a horrendous month in an F11 5-series back in 2011 - never before has a car actually made me, as its driver, so angry that I've shouted at it. It was such a relief to get back in the E39 - two generations older but so much better in so many ways.

[Tony33]

and in next weeks instalment of "Not Driven" we pit our memories of 40 year old saloons against what we might imagine the very latest from BMW could be like to drive. Without giving too much away we were rather surprised by the verdict!

[Ali_T]

RoverP6B said:

goes like buggery,

That part disappointed me. Might be that the demo I tried was too tight, but it didn't feel that quick. My Evo X 330 felt faster and that weighs as much as Ireland, and my STI 330S would disappear into the distance in a drag race...at least until it blew up.....again. The Golf is quick, but hardly ballistic, and didn't, subjectively, feel much faster than a GTI Edition 30, for example.

[ORD]

Ali_T said:

That part disappointed me. Might be that the demo I tried was too tight, but it didn't feel that quick. My Evo X 330 felt faster and that weighs as much as Ireland, and my STI 330S would disappear into the distance in a drag race, until it blew up.....again. It's quick, but hardly ballistic.

Its got a 2 litre engine and weighs a st load! What does anyone really expect from it? I now feel sorry for the R - it is basically accused of wanting to be a supercar and then judged by those standards.

It is a spankingly quick hatchback!

[Ali_T]

But it's not spankingly quick, apart from standing start, 4wd aided figures. The Scooby felt properly quick, and far faster than the Golf. Then again, the 330S gave 355bhp and 360+lbft on a dyne as standard and weighed slightly less, so it should! The Golf is usefully quick but, 9 times out of 10, not much faster than the GTI PP.

Edited by Ali_T on Wednesday 15th April 12:05

[Crafty_]

I think part of the problem is its only 280lb/ft and there is no kick in the back. imho its too refined with regards to delivery of the torque.

[J4CKO]

What we need to remember is, for the average punter who is used to a diesel Golf, say a 140 tdi, it will feel rabid and that is perhaps where a lot of folk are coming from, or younger lads from much slower stuff, so it will seem ballistic, a bit like when all the punters went from mondeo 1.6/1.8s into turbodiesels and they felt mega rapid in comparison.

I think the Golf R is a brilliant package but it gets over hyped, such that it cannot meet the lofty expectations, especially of petrolheads coming from some very focussed and more powerful machinery, especially when it adds a layer of refinement they arent used to.

Also, some of the legend is based on examples that have been remapped, that 280 lb/ft becomes 350 and that is enough to make it less polite in the power delivery department and live up more to the expectations.

At the end of the day its a well made 30 grand hatchback with 300 ish bhp, not a P1 rival, it delivers pretty well but it isnt going to render all other fast cars redundant.

I am not a huge Golf fan but I see the appeal, I fancy a go of one and i wont write it off as hopeless without driving it.

I dont know why people take the car so personally, same with the Nissan Juke, any SUV etc etc, if you dont like it, dont buy it and I had to have a word with myself to work out whether it was just me discounting it as I cant afford/justify one, amazing how some folks perceptions and aspirations change when they have a few quid to spend.

[andrewparker]

ORD said:

A lot of truth in that. If you don't like Golfs (and I don't)

You like talking about them though

[Tony33]

J4CKO said:

What we need to remember is, for the average punter who is used to a diesel Golf, say a 140 tdi, it will feel rabid and that is perhaps where a lot of folk are coming from, or younger lads from much slower stuff, so it will seem ballistic, a bit like when all the punters went from mondeo 1.6/1.8s into turbodiesels and they felt mega rapid in comparison.

The "hype" though has come from the press who drive far more exotic machinery. I think there may have been some genuine surprise that after a run of quick, competent but not very engaging Rs in the past the Mk7 exceeds expectations in the dynamic states. The Top Gear Speed Week edition had the Golf R alongside some genuine supercars and raved over it.

I think the issue is that people expect a fire breathing monster after reading these reviews and the R is perhaps too good at being a "normal" Golf on demand for some, which of course for many running one car is a huge plus.

It was never bought out to win top trumps, giving away a significant chunk of power to the A45 and even some to the older M135i

[ORD]

andrewparker said:

ORD said:

A lot of truth in that. If you don't like Golfs (and I don't)

You like talking about them though

As I have said before, it is an excellent example of a lot of motoring trends that interest me. It also, which isn't its fault, got a lot of massively OTT hype when it came out, which has attracted a lot of attention and fuelled interesting discussions.

Despite all that, fair cop!