RE: Battle for the B-road: WRX STI vs S3 saloon
Discussion
GravelMachineGun said:
stavers said:
GravelMachineGun said:
As good as the Subaru is I think most people and me included would go for the Audi.
Which just goes to show that the majority of people today care about style rather than substance.The Audi has both and which one will be worth more in 10 years?...
dlockhart said:
the inside of the Subaru has previously failed to make me feel special, the audi looks welcoming and solid. From the photo it doesn't look like that has changed.
Fortunately, I don't see a point at which a car interior will ever make me feel special. To me, it's just a veneer on top of a bunch of metal panels, wires, rods and levers. I know a lot of people do like a 'plush' interior, but I'm happy so long as I can sit comfortably in it for 5 or 6 hours and it isn't fragile. Whilst my '05 Subaru wasn't informed that the '90s has ended, it's pretty robust.Mr Whippy said:
Looks the same kinda thing, just 15 years later.
Engine is smaller = crapper off boost.
Engine has less cylinders, so now it sounds more like every other shopping car around.
AWD system is more about limiting your request, rather than making your request hit the floor as best it can.
What characteristic appeal they used to have, despite being all-rounders, is slowly disappearing to leave them devoid of anything.
They really are the ultimate grey car.
Cripes, even I found my 306 GTi6 flawed because it was too normal feeling except when bouncing off the limiter on empty roads, so what an S3 feels like 99.99% of the time on the road is probably a diesel Golf.
Apart from big numbers on the invoice and speedo, what is it offering over a derv Golf?
Dave
Is that an opinion formed from actually driving the car though?Engine is smaller = crapper off boost.
Engine has less cylinders, so now it sounds more like every other shopping car around.
AWD system is more about limiting your request, rather than making your request hit the floor as best it can.
What characteristic appeal they used to have, despite being all-rounders, is slowly disappearing to leave them devoid of anything.
They really are the ultimate grey car.
Cripes, even I found my 306 GTi6 flawed because it was too normal feeling except when bouncing off the limiter on empty roads, so what an S3 feels like 99.99% of the time on the road is probably a diesel Golf.
Apart from big numbers on the invoice and speedo, what is it offering over a derv Golf?
Dave
Spooge said:
Is that an opinion formed from actually driving the car though?
If not, then I suspect it's an opinion he's formed from driving other models. I've driven a few normal and quick Audis and I've always found that the faster models feel much like the slower models; a stopwatch would be needed to tell the difference. The exception to that is the RS6, which feels genuinely quick and has a soundtrack to match, but from previous experience Audis are very consistent and I'd be surprised if Mr W's summary was far from the truth.What people on this thread seem to be missing is surely this is the whole point of Audis? They're supposed to be understated, dull and efficient; that's what buyers want. If people want a touch of excitement or racier looks, then they generally shop elsewhere.
Spooge said:
Is that an opinion formed from actually driving the car though?
Nope.If that really were the pre-requisite for having an opinion or view then PH would be eerily quiet.
But I can happily say that the saving grace in many older Audi S/RS models was an interesting engine note or entertaining awd system.
Even this article somewhat agrees with my view, as do others I've watched/read.
So what makes the saloon S3 stand apart from a diesel A3 saloon in day to day use?
Dave
PhantomPH said:
I must add that the S3 is the new car (perhaps with the exception of my RX8) that has garnered most positive comments from people. I've been quite surprised by the sheer number of people (male and female) who have said, "Nice car" or similar.
As I said, the only thing before that was the RX8, which (when new) got loads of attention - especially when opening the rear doors as well.
Like it or not, the Audi has a real string to it's bow that the Subaru doesn't and that's in the 'brand' stakes. Interestingly, the saloon body takes away the 'hot hatch' perception as well.
In fact - I feel compelled to post a pic of mine right now!
Sorry, but I just immediately thought of this little fella.As I said, the only thing before that was the RX8, which (when new) got loads of attention - especially when opening the rear doors as well.
Like it or not, the Audi has a real string to it's bow that the Subaru doesn't and that's in the 'brand' stakes. Interestingly, the saloon body takes away the 'hot hatch' perception as well.
In fact - I feel compelled to post a pic of mine right now!
Mr Whippy said:
So what makes the saloon S3 stand apart from a diesel A3 saloon in day to day use?
This is the crux of the point I'm making. I drove a 2007 RS4 a few years ago and had an A4 2.0TDi for three months a couple of years ago. Apart from spec (the RS4 had full leather, gizmos everywhere etc), a difference in engine note if you really paid attention, slightly higher grip levels in corners, 4WD and somewhat faster acceleration, nothing really seperated the two, no. If you didn't drive quickly, there wasn't much in it at all. Same story with other Audis that I've tried, and I've always assumed that was the whole point - zero excitement, no steering feel, lots of understeer, gets the job done from A to B, end of story. In contrast, BMW M cars or Merc AMGs have always been very different and felt very different to the more mundane cars they're based on - M cars more through their advanced rear diffs and suspension and AMGs more through their thunderous V8s that dominate proceedings.Mr Whippy said:
Nope.
If that really were the pre-requisite for having an opinion or view then PH would be eerily quiet.
But I can happily say that the saving grace in many older Audi S/RS models was an interesting engine note or entertaining awd system.
Even this article somewhat agrees with my view, as do others I've watched/read.
So what makes the saloon S3 stand apart from a diesel A3 saloon in day to day use?
Dave
Obviously, but it's quite a strong opinion to state without having actually driven it in the first place. I just don't understand how it can be stated with such conviction. If that really were the pre-requisite for having an opinion or view then PH would be eerily quiet.
But I can happily say that the saving grace in many older Audi S/RS models was an interesting engine note or entertaining awd system.
Even this article somewhat agrees with my view, as do others I've watched/read.
So what makes the saloon S3 stand apart from a diesel A3 saloon in day to day use?
Dave
Truth be told I hadn't even considered it when I was looking at buying a car, had my heart set on a C63 (slightly uneconomical to insure at 23), took it for a drive and my opinion changed.
Like everything its subjective, but I don't think the engine struggles at all off the boost - and I actually quite like the sound at full chat
I haven't driven a Standard A3, but I do know that it's got different suspension, different steering (still slightly understeery), I'd wager this is more fun too.
Spooge said:
Mr Whippy said:
Nope.
If that really were the pre-requisite for having an opinion or view then PH would be eerily quiet.
But I can happily say that the saving grace in many older Audi S/RS models was an interesting engine note or entertaining awd system.
Even this article somewhat agrees with my view, as do others I've watched/read.
So what makes the saloon S3 stand apart from a diesel A3 saloon in day to day use?
Dave
Obviously, but it's quite a strong opinion to state without having actually driven it in the first place. I just don't understand how it can be stated with such conviction. If that really were the pre-requisite for having an opinion or view then PH would be eerily quiet.
But I can happily say that the saving grace in many older Audi S/RS models was an interesting engine note or entertaining awd system.
Even this article somewhat agrees with my view, as do others I've watched/read.
So what makes the saloon S3 stand apart from a diesel A3 saloon in day to day use?
Dave
Truth be told I hadn't even considered it when I was looking at buying a car, had my heart set on a C63 (slightly uneconomical to insure at 23), took it for a drive and my opinion changed.
Like everything its subjective, but I don't think the engine struggles at all off the boost - and I actually quite like the sound at full chat
I haven't driven a Standard A3, but I do know that it's got different suspension, different steering (still slightly understeery), I'd wager this is more fun too.
The bottom line is that everyone likes different things and that's great, but I've had a s
tload of cars and I can say without hesitation that I really like my Audi. It looks great, ticks the boxes when it comes to 'class' (think what you like, but it's a fact), it's comfortable, it can take all four members of the family without a problem, the boot is large and when I am in on my own, it goes like stink! Not every journey is a lap of Silverstone...in fact almost none of them are. Most of them are to and from work. And at that, it's bloody fantastic. I can overtake lines of cars stuck behind trucks safely and quickly and it's a lovely place to sit.Unless you are in completely the wrong gear, it's never 'struggling' in the slightest (drive one and you will se...you have to try and bog the thing down...like being in 6th at 20mph).
As for the sound, it sounds great, thanks. Nice little burble like my previous GTIs - switch to 'Dynamic' mode and it sounds the f
king nuts.Haters gonna hate hate hate...
I find it odd that people on here don't take the interior of a car into consideration h buying a car, after all it's the part you have to sit in and look at the most, especially as he chance to actually go out and just drive a car to the max is a relatively rare experience these days. The interior in the Subaru is indeed nasty and there really is no excuse for that in a car of that price these days
MonkeyMatt said:
I find it odd that people on here don't take the interior of a car into consideration h buying a car, after all it's the part you have to sit in and look at the most, especially as he chance to actually go out and just drive a car to the max is a relatively rare experience these days. The interior in the Subaru is indeed nasty and there really is no excuse for that in a car of that price these days
I drove an Sti recently and I wouldn't call the interior 'nasty' at all. Not as good as an Audi, perhaps, but far from nasty.My money would go on the Subaru, but I enjoy driving, when I get a chance to have a bit of fun. That's what PH is all about, isn't it?
moffat said:
But in our day of PCP / HP / Contract Hire sales I wonder if the Subaru is cheaper?
I would think that with its better residuals, better mpg, lower CO2 the S3 will win out 9 out of 10 times.
I'm glad Subaru still make the STI but it feels to me as if it's a generation behind. I don't doubt it's PH credentials, but it's still lacking in too many areas to ever make it a success.
Indeed. Cheap PCP is probably the main reason we don't see more GT86/BRZ on the road. I would think that with its better residuals, better mpg, lower CO2 the S3 will win out 9 out of 10 times.
I'm glad Subaru still make the STI but it feels to me as if it's a generation behind. I don't doubt it's PH credentials, but it's still lacking in too many areas to ever make it a success.
For the last few years (ok, maybe 15), I've felt the Impreza has lost its raison d'etre. It used to be a performance bargain. Same price as a hot hatch but much faster. That's not the case any more. An Impreza should be small, fast and cheap. For £30-35k it needs 400bhp+ to differentiate it from pcp focus and golf yawn boxes.
moffat said:
But in our day of PCP / HP / Contract Hire sales I wonder if the Subaru is cheaper?
I would think that with its better residuals, better mpg, lower CO2 the S3 will win out 9 out of 10 times.
I'm glad Subaru still make the STI but it feels to me as if it's a generation behind. I don't doubt it's PH credentials, but it's still lacking in too many areas to ever make it a success.
Well the Subaru is cheaper even with its one option against a standard S3.I would think that with its better residuals, better mpg, lower CO2 the S3 will win out 9 out of 10 times.
I'm glad Subaru still make the STI but it feels to me as if it's a generation behind. I don't doubt it's PH credentials, but it's still lacking in too many areas to ever make it a success.
The S3 is a good looking motor spoilt in my opinion by that grill oh and four exhausts.
callahan said:
I drove an Sti recently and I wouldn't call the interior 'nasty' at all. Not as good as an Audi, perhaps, but far from nasty.
My money would go on the Subaru, but I enjoy driving, when I get a chance to have a bit of fun. That's what PH is all about, isn't it?
I didn't say I didn't like driving! Just that I'm surprised so many people don't take an interior into accountMy money would go on the Subaru, but I enjoy driving, when I get a chance to have a bit of fun. That's what PH is all about, isn't it?
MonkeyMatt said:
callahan said:
I drove an Sti recently and I wouldn't call the interior 'nasty' at all. Not as good as an Audi, perhaps, but far from nasty.
My money would go on the Subaru, but I enjoy driving, when I get a chance to have a bit of fun. That's what PH is all about, isn't it?
I didn't say I didn't like driving! Just that I'm surprised so many people don't take an interior into accountMy money would go on the Subaru, but I enjoy driving, when I get a chance to have a bit of fun. That's what PH is all about, isn't it?
PhantomPH said:
I must add that the S3 is the new car (perhaps with the exception of my RX8) that has garnered most positive comments from people. I've been quite surprised by the sheer number of people (male and female) who have said, "Nice car" or similar.
As I said, the only thing before that was the RX8, which (when new) got loads of attention - especially when opening the rear doors as well.
Like it or not, the Audi has a real string to it's bow that the Subaru doesn't and that's in the 'brand' stakes. Interestingly, the saloon body takes away the 'hot hatch' perception as well.
In fact - I feel compelled to post a pic of mine right now!
That, as I have said before is absolutely stunning. All things considered however, I favour the STi for it's more aggressive styling. I'd love a shot of an S3 as part of me wonders if it would be the same as my previous M135i...incredibly fast and competent but just a bit boring and not that special.As I said, the only thing before that was the RX8, which (when new) got loads of attention - especially when opening the rear doors as well.
Like it or not, the Audi has a real string to it's bow that the Subaru doesn't and that's in the 'brand' stakes. Interestingly, the saloon body takes away the 'hot hatch' perception as well.
In fact - I feel compelled to post a pic of mine right now!
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