RE: Battle for the B-road: WRX STI vs S3 saloon
Discussion
I don't get people saying the S3 is too dull and adding the Golf R to their list. I drove both and they were near identical in experience and near identical in being just a bit too omnicompetent and dull. The only difference I found was that the VW salesman was nicer than the condescending knobend from Audi, so I discounted the S3 completely on that basis. I would easily take the STI above both bar the fact that the EJ25 engine is still in use. Once the new turbo version of the FB20 is put in the STI, I'll be taking a long hard look again. Though I'd be even more likely to consider it if you could delete the rear wing like they can in the US.
Edited by Ali_T on Monday 13th April 17:18
Dblue said:
nickfrog said:
British Beef said:
Focus RS will definately put the cat amongst the pigeons.
For my £30k - #35k :
Focus RS 1st, (assumption without driving!)
Scooby 2nd,
Golf R 3rd,
Drove S3 and too dull and BMW 135 just too ugly
It happens to provide the best driving experience too (subjectively) out of that lot, so win-win for me ! It's also the cheapest.For my £30k - #35k :
Focus RS 1st, (assumption without driving!)
Scooby 2nd,
Golf R 3rd,
Drove S3 and too dull and BMW 135 just too ugly
nickfrog said:
Dblue said:
nickfrog said:
British Beef said:
Focus RS will definately put the cat amongst the pigeons.
For my £30k - #35k :
Focus RS 1st, (assumption without driving!)
Scooby 2nd,
Golf R 3rd,
Drove S3 and too dull and BMW 135 just too ugly
It happens to provide the best driving experience too (subjectively) out of that lot, so win-win for me ! It's also the cheapest.For my £30k - #35k :
Focus RS 1st, (assumption without driving!)
Scooby 2nd,
Golf R 3rd,
Drove S3 and too dull and BMW 135 just too ugly
Anyway, very off topic. Of the 2 cars here, Audi for me for the looks and the cabin.
Dblue said:
nickfrog said:
Dblue said:
nickfrog said:
British Beef said:
Focus RS will definately put the cat amongst the pigeons.
For my £30k - #35k :
Focus RS 1st, (assumption without driving!)
Scooby 2nd,
Golf R 3rd,
Drove S3 and too dull and BMW 135 just too ugly
It happens to provide the best driving experience too (subjectively) out of that lot, so win-win for me ! It's also the cheapest.For my £30k - #35k :
Focus RS 1st, (assumption without driving!)
Scooby 2nd,
Golf R 3rd,
Drove S3 and too dull and BMW 135 just too ugly
Anyway, very off topic. Of the 2 cars here, Audi for me for the looks and the cabin.
My A3 2.0 TFSI couldn't ever match that!
The brakes are fantastic too, really inspire confidence. Where it falls down as mentioned above is on the chassis and the lack of a limited slip differential as standard. It had a nasty habit of spinning the inside wheel hard out of bends and then unloading the pent up energy in a lurch as it regained traction. It could have learnt a lot form the E39 M5 I owned before it. That had beautiful manners.
I'd still buy the M135 again over any of the others mentioned if it wasn't for the strong pedal offset to the right that made my knee flair up and ended in physio!
Niffty951 said:
Dblue said:
nickfrog said:
Dblue said:
nickfrog said:
British Beef said:
Focus RS will definately put the cat amongst the pigeons.
For my £30k - #35k :
Focus RS 1st, (assumption without driving!)
Scooby 2nd,
Golf R 3rd,
Drove S3 and too dull and BMW 135 just too ugly
It happens to provide the best driving experience too (subjectively) out of that lot, so win-win for me ! It's also the cheapest.For my £30k - #35k :
Focus RS 1st, (assumption without driving!)
Scooby 2nd,
Golf R 3rd,
Drove S3 and too dull and BMW 135 just too ugly
Anyway, very off topic. Of the 2 cars here, Audi for me for the looks and the cabin.
My A3 2.0 TFSI couldn't ever match that!
The brakes are fantastic too, really inspire confidence. Where it falls down as mentioned above is on the chassis and the lack of a limited slip differential as standard. It had a nasty habit of spinning the inside wheel hard out of bends and then unloading the pent up energy in a lurch as it regained traction. It could have learnt a lot form the E39 M5 I owned before it. That had beautiful manners.
I'd still buy the M135 again over any of the others mentioned if it wasn't for the strong pedal offset to the right that made my knee flair up and ended in physio!
As an all rounder the creamy engine and BMW premium cabin and experience may well be a more important factor but if your priority is how much fun it is to drive ....no contest.
Cant find the big comparisons on-line (they were in the magazine ) from the last 6 months in EVO and CAR but the BM was mid table in both behind the Megane, Golf R, Seat Leon. Back to back its flaws are more obvious perhaps.
Subaru has not done well head to head with the Golf R in stuff I've read either.
I thought you were comparing the Golf to the M135i. So not sure why you're introducing the Renault. For the record, I agree but a Caterham will monster both (I genuinely don't know what monster means in automotive terms though ;-)). I still haven't any of the articles you refer to, most reviews seems to prefer the M135i to the S3, including Dan Trent here. But if you find the Golf R more fun than the M135i, then that is your prerogative. You would be in a small minority, which is OK anyway, as discussed previously.
nickfrog said:
I thought you were comparing the Golf to the M135i. So not sure why you're introducing the Renault. For the record, I agree but a Caterham will monster both (I genuinely don't know what monster means in automotive terms though ;-)). I still haven't any of the articles you refer to, most reviews seems to prefer the M135i to the S3, including Dan Trent here. But if you find the Golf R more fun than the M135i, then that is your prerogative. You would be in a small minority, which is OK anyway, as discussed previously.
You think I'm in the minority re the Golf R vs the 135i?? I don't think so, every major publication and web site has the Golf as the better car. But regardless, the comparison is of a WRX STi and an Audi S3, nothing whatsoever to do with the BMW. and should remain so. Off topic now so probably enough to-ing and fro-ing re those cars.Dblue said:
nickfrog said:
I thought you were comparing the Golf to the M135i. So not sure why you're introducing the Renault. For the record, I agree but a Caterham will monster both (I genuinely don't know what monster means in automotive terms though ;-)). I still haven't any of the articles you refer to, most reviews seems to prefer the M135i to the S3, including Dan Trent here. But if you find the Golf R more fun than the M135i, then that is your prerogative. You would be in a small minority, which is OK anyway, as discussed previously.
You think I'm in the minority re the Golf R vs the 135i?? I don't think so, every major publication and web site has the Golf as the better car. But regardless, the comparison is of a WRX STi and an Audi S3, nothing whatsoever to do with the BMW. and should remain so. Off topic now so probably enough to-ing and fro-ing re those cars.Define "better"?. I haven't seen ANY major publication nor website having the Golf as the better car though, could you share please ?
In the meantime you may want to have a look at this as presumably the S3 is close to the Golf http://www.pistonheads.com/news/ph-germancars/bmw-...
"Conclusion
The S3 is a great car by any measure. Well, any but this one sadly. In all but practicality and, to some eyes, pose value it's hard to escape the fact the M135i thumps it comprehensively across the board. If you need a more family orientated premium uber hatch the Sportback will be a much more convincing sell than the more self-centred BMW. But for the kind of feelgood factors we're looking for it's not a hard one to call. "
Edited by nickfrog on Tuesday 14th April 18:56
nickfrog said:
In the meantime you may want to have a look at this as presumably the S3 is close to the Golf http://www.pistonheads.com/news/ph-germancars/bmw-...
"Conclusion
The S3 is a great car by any measure. Well, any but this one sadly. In all but practicality and, to some eyes, pose value it's hard to escape the fact the M135i thumps it comprehensively across the board. If you need a more family orientated premium uber hatch the Sportback will be a much more convincing sell than the more self-centred BMW. But for the kind of feelgood factors we're looking for it's not a hard one to call. "
I hadn't read the article that you have quoted, however, i knew exactly who had written it before i clicked the link."Conclusion
The S3 is a great car by any measure. Well, any but this one sadly. In all but practicality and, to some eyes, pose value it's hard to escape the fact the M135i thumps it comprehensively across the board. If you need a more family orientated premium uber hatch the Sportback will be a much more convincing sell than the more self-centred BMW. But for the kind of feelgood factors we're looking for it's not a hard one to call. "
Edited by nickfrog on Tuesday 14th April 18:56
Ali_T said:
I don't get people saying the S3 is too dull and adding the Golf R to their list. I drove both and they were near identical in experience and near identical in being just a bit too omnicompetent and dull. The only difference I found was that the VW salesman was nicer than the condescending knobend from Audi, so I discounted the S3 completely on that basis. I would easily take the STI above both bar the fact that the EJ25 engine is still in use. Once the new turbo version of the FB20 is put in the STI, I'll be taking a long hard look again. Though I'd be even more likely to consider it if you could delete the rear wing like they can in the US.
Wow, I thought it might look good without the wing but that really does look crap. It's like a tarted up previous model focus saloon.Edited by Ali_T on Monday 13th April 17:18
Ved said:
That's actually really nice! Flap cap rather baseball?
Reminds me of the old Legacy S402, and that's a good thing IMO. If they'd just drop in the new engine, I might return. As long as the new RX7/8/9 doesn't get launched in the meantime, or the Giulia QV isn't M3 money, or the Focus RS doesn't kick everything else into touch, that is. Edited by Ali_T on Wednesday 15th April 12:20
nunpuncher said:
Wow, I thought it might look good without the wing but that really does look crap. It's like a tarted up previous model focus saloon.
I have similar thoughts upon seeing the A/S3 saloon; the hatch & sportback are much better resolved IMO, with the saloon looking too short and too chubby. I'd still pick the Subaru out of the two though because as long as it's not painted Barbie pink, with chrome spinners a merkin bonnet mascot, function > form. nickfrog said:
Yes, strange. More M135i vs S3 tests though, so I guess extrapolating is OK. But nothing replaces testing the cars yourself, at the end of the day. It really doesn't matter what someone else may think.
Yes. - We all have our own preferences and in my experience if you don't like, for example, baked beans (and I don't), then it doesn't matter whether they're the Heinz variety or 'Asda Smartprice'. Similarly, I know that I don't like Haldex 4 system (haven't tried the 5 yet but it appears to be only slightly better) in a performance car and so it doesn't matter whether that's in a Golf R or TTRS.Re. the M135I; I wouldn't be surprised if it's like the old 130i in that there's first class potential in the chassis but requiring some suspension changed to realise it. The key is that all of the base ingredients are in place, whereas you just can't make any other current production hatch drive in the same way.
Correct Clivey mate. Looks like the M4 lower control arms fit the M135i for neg camber, fit H+R springs and tweak the toe when you do the alignment. £500/£600 and you're away. Endless pads if you must. LSD is you feel flush for wet weather (not essential for me). Mine's coming in 6 weeks, can't wait.
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