Blasphemy!: Revered driver's cars that you just don't get.

[Baryonyx]

The Range Rover. Basing my feelings off a previous Overfinch. What is it with Range Rovers? You can't tune them to be a great drive, you can just make them fast in a straight line. The interior is nice enough and the finish is good but they're fundamentally flawed and for a drive, you'd be better off with a decent saloon. fk the Range Rover, get a Jaguar XJ, BMW 7 series or S Class. If you can't imagine not having AWD, get an AWD saloon. Don't pretend your £100,000 Range Rover will ever be used off road, it won't. Don't fool yourself into thinking you'll be going anywhere in the snow on those massive summer tyres either, or that 'all weather capability' was the reason behind buying such a dreadful vehicle.


I can only assume that the trend for these tall, ungainly things comes from meek drivers who feel intimidated by sitting low on the road. You wouldn't hope into an XJ after driving a Range Rover and honestly say that the Range Rover was a better drive, mainly because the RR's COG is somewhere above where the roofline of the XJ would be!

[rohrl]

E36 M3



I know it's not as revered as the E30 but the E36 M3 is still pretty well regarded. Sitting in a RHD example I just couldn't get over how crap the driving position was. The footwell was uncomfortably narrow and the pedals were very obviously offset to the right to such a degree that I don't think I would ever be able to get on with the car.

[Mephistofleas]

Don't agree on the Puma - in fact I am having a very hard time letting go of mine. I genuinely love everything about it and can't stop hooning! The family wagon (i30) has been pushed out completely at the moment.

My choice for the OP would be anything Lotus. It's not that I don't like them it's just I don't really see the appeal for me personally.

Would also agree on the Golf. In fact any Golf for that matter!

[miniman]

Megane 225 2 Girls 1 Cup thing. Horrible. Ditto the Clio equivalent.

[luckystrike]

miniman said:

Megane 225 2 Girls 1 Cup thing. Horrible. Ditto the Clio equivalent.

My housemate said the same when he test drove one - lack of steering feel was his biggest gripe.

I must say I've enjoyed being a passenger in clio 1*2s, and the main complaints from the drivers weren't anything more than a slightly awkward driving position and melty steering wheel.

[danp]

rohrl said:

E36 M3



I know it's not as revered as the E30 but the E36 M3 is still pretty well regarded. Sitting in a RHD example I just couldn't get over how crap the driving position was. The footwell was uncomfortably narrow and the pedals were very obviously offset to the right to such a degree that I don't think I would ever be able to get on with the car.

Offset to the right, thought it would be the left?

[LimaDelta]

BMW M cars and Audi RS cars. Too boring to be a weekender, too shouty to be a daily. Though to be honest, I don't think any Audi has been a revered driver's car since the ur quattro.

IMHO of course.

[carmadgaz]

otolith said:

These;





If you can live with a two seater, you've got so many more interesting options than a hot hatch.

and by the same token it baffles me to see softtop cars with hardtops/ roofs up even on glorious sunny days! What's the point?

[jamieduff1981]

I agree with the Puma. I didn't see what the fuss was about. It wasn't that bad, but it was literally just a Fiesta in a girly coupe body.

Don't get hot hatches in general.

[Martin_M]

carmadgaz said:

and by the same token it baffles me to see softtop cars with hardtops/ roofs up even on glorious sunny days! What's the point?

Are you one of those that drive top down when the sun comes out in March?

[danp]

Roger Irrelevant said:

Funnily enough I was thinking along these lines just this morning - I saw an Elise on the way to work which got me thinking that I'd probably be committing a cardinal sin by admitting that I just really, really don't like Lotuses (Loti?). I've no idea why either - on paper they should be right up my street and people rave about them but I'd never buy one in a month of Sundays. I shall now flagellate myself in penance.

Elise s1 - should be my ideal car - small, light, fast-ish, efficient, sublime ride and handling (allegedly). I have the excellent book, read all the reviews, saw the documentary on them and really, really wanted to own one.

I've hoped to buy one on three different occasions but come away empty handed, my problems with them being:

- too cramped (gearstick rubbing my knee, no room for my size 10's)
- rubbish, vague box
- engine that doesn't really want to rev
- horrific nvh, heat soak and general comfort
- jittery, clunky ride

These have been well looked after, lightly modded 118/135/160 variants, two with recent suspension refreshes (to s2 spec), so they should have been good. I honestly can't see what the fuss is about, guess I didn't get as far as appreciating the handling.

I know they're pretty basic and Lotus developed it for £1.63 then built them in a shed, perhaps I'm too old for one now, but I was very disappointed with them. Maybe I need to try an s2/exige, as they should be better in most of the above areas.

I salute those of you that use an s1 as a daily, but as a form of transport I'd rather have my old mk3 mr2 roadster for 25% of the price, it's a better car in pretty much every regard IMVHO.

Edited by danp on Thursday 9th April 19:29

[GroundEffect]

Renault Clio 172 Cup.

Owned one for a year. No idea how I put up with it for so long. Everything about it, I hated.

- Handling was skittish at best (coming from a DC2 might have explained it...)
- Characterless engine
- Awful sound
- Crap driving position
- Exhaust kept falling apart
- Engine mounts fell apart
- Gearbox finally fell apart and killed it

Never again.

[snoopy25]

I'll probably be hung, drawn and quartered for this.........

Jaguar E-Type, I just dont get it. Looks horrendous and although ive never driven one not exactly the most reliable machine either now or back in its heyday from what ive heard. It just really isnt a pretty car at all (My opinion and im not forcing it on anyone lol)

[wongthecorrupter]

Impreza's, they sound ridiculous. Just jap crap in general, they all look the same and have awful interiors imho

Edited by wongthecorrupter on Thursday 9th April 19:42

[lukefreeman]

Mazda MX5
335D
135i
Golf R (On lease)

[white_goodman]

otolith said:

These;





If you can live with a two seater, you've got so many more interesting options than a hot hatch.

Agreed. The appeal of a hot hatch to me is that you can still have fun but have 4 seats and a decent boot (at the expense of a bit of style). In this, your eggs from Tesco would end up scrambled against the roll cage. Completely appropriate in a track-focussed 911 but not in a shopping hatch.

[white_goodman]

rallycross said:

Quite simple, if you haven't driven one then you don't know what you are talking about (much like a load of other crap that gets repeated on this forum).

OK rallycross, valid point. I have driven most of the cars that I first mentioned but not the Clio Williams, Escort Cossie, F40 or Carrera GT (nor am I ever likely to get the opportunity to drive an F40 or Carrera GT). I see that you have owned both a Clio Williams and a 182 and both Sierra and Escort Cossies. You rate the Williams over the 182, which surprises me. On paper, the 182 sounds like it would be the better car but perhaps the Williams is more than the sum of its parts (which I'm perfectly willing to accept)? I'm sure that you can understand though that having driven a normal Clio of similar age, it is hard to imagine how much better the Williams is and that it can also be better than a 182 (a car that I have driven and didn't really like). You also rate the Sierra Cosworths that you owned over the Escort and agree that the Escort had fallen behind the competitors from Subaru and Mitsubishi. Not saying they are bad cars, just that in both cases, there are similar cars that I would like to own more.

[white_goodman]

BrewsterBear said:

You're wrong. Having been lucky enough to have had a passenger ride in an F40 they are beyond immense. I'm sure that there are faster cars or better real-world cars, but an F40 has such a sense of occasion. Not to mention the brutality of the thing. Long before turbochargers were made mundane. This is the very essence of Ferrari and, for me, will never be beaten.

If I haven't driven or passengered in a car then I try to base my opinion on facts and what I have read. I agree too that a higher power or top speed figure and a lower 0-60mph figure doesn't necessarily make one car "better" than the other. The experience and how it makes me feel is far more important. No, I haven't driven or even passengered in an F40 unlike yourself, so your opinion is probably more informed in this case. I'm sure that it's a very exciting and visceral experience and I would never dismiss the F40 as being crap. I wasn't expecting many people to agree with me on this but looks are subjective and although it is no minger, IMHO, it is not the best-looking Ferrari. If I ever have the fortune to own a Ferrari (and the likelihood of me ever having the means to afford an F40 is very remote), an F40 would not be he one that I would choose because I would like to take a long trans-European jaunt in it and with the F40 I would arrive deaf, exhausted and probably a little bit scared.

[white_goodman]

nipsips said:

I dont get any japanese cars.

Theres always far more interesting cars on the market! I respect them for their reliability, but then they look dull, drive dull and are just dull!

That seems like a bit of a sweeping generalisation. So you haven't driven a:

Impreza or Evo
RX7/RX8
Skyline/GTR
Type R
NSX
or Lexus LFA?

I wouldn't call any of these cars boring.

[white_goodman]

LimaDelta said:

BMW M cars and Audi RS cars. Too boring to be a weekender, too shouty to be a daily. Though to be honest, I don't think any Audi has been a revered driver's car since the ur quattro.

IMHO of course.

B7 RS4 and R8 are supposed to be pretty awesome.