One single thing that makes you think "knob" Vol 3
Discussion
Cliftonite said:
The Rt Hon Patrick McLoughlin MP:
* the requirement to place repeat speed limit signs has been removed - now councils can make their own decisions on how many speed limit signs are needed so that drivers know what limits apply
This'll be the reason that I'm tailgated so frequently down Hawley Lane, Farnborough. Since the new commercial units have been opened, and more traffic wants to be turning into and out of the industrial estate/business park, the speed limit in force has been (permanently) reduced from 40mph to 30mph. But the LA are relying on one set of 'gateway' lollypops to inform drivers of the new limit, along with the presence of street lighting (being petrol heads and driving fans we all know what that means, right?). Previously there were a fair few '40' repeaters, which have all been removed. Now either these cretins who tailgate me are stupid, and unobservant, such that they don't know that the speed limit is 30mph, or they are fully aware of the new lower speed limit, and simply choose to ignore it based on the old "it was safe at 40mph before, therefore it must still be safe at 40mph" assumption. Well, chaps? I totally agree that it feels insanely slow to be sat at 30mph down that road, especially when traffic is light outside of peak times. But the limit has been set, and it's only a matter of time before the Police camera van has a purge on speeding down there. It's simply begging for it, as it would literally be like shooting fish in a barrel. Hence why I (usually, I'm not saying I never exceed the limit down there) use my electronic limiter and suffer "shuffling along" like some pensioner in a Honda Jazz. If you want to go faster, overtake. If traffic allows. Otherwise back the f* the requirement to place repeat speed limit signs has been removed - now councils can make their own decisions on how many speed limit signs are needed so that drivers know what limits apply
- only 1 sign now needs be installed to show the start of a traffic restriction such as no entry, or no left-turn if it’s safe
k off and accept the speed limit for what it is, not fight to drive at what you'd like it to be. Because the last time I allowed myself to be chivvied along "with the flow of traffic" it cost me a day out of my life and the price of a "Speed Awareness Course", and that was for 43mph in a 30mph zone through a village on the A32 where I could see the end of the 30mph limit from where it began. So no, I won't be bullied into exceeding the limit by you. You go as fast as you want, conditions permitting. None of my business. But if I'm obeying the displayed limit, get the fk away from my rear bumper you . ukaskew said:
Anyhow, if you're doing say, 30 miles, 70mph gets you there in 25:42, 65mph gets you there in 27:41. Driving at 65mph is significantly more relaxing than 70mph as already mentioned. I'd take that for the sake of 1 minute 59 seconds, a time which can often be all but wiped out if you then head onto a busy single carriageway.
You could just as easily say why not drive at 60? Or 50 and apply the same logic. Until you realise than on non-trivial distances (such as say 200 miles) it makes a significant difference, around 15 minutes for every 5 mph drop. Motorways are boring enough without prolonging it.OpulentBob said:
He didn't develop the plan. He signed it off following a large, well-publicised request for input on the previous TSRGD from those who know it and use it every day, other relevant interested parties, road "enthusiast" groups etc. It's been going on for the last couple of years.
Leaving even more decisions regarding signage to Councils is a mistake. How many 'Keep Left' signs does one see when it is usual, necessary even, to pass them on the right? As for the 'Pass Either Side For Same Destination ' signs!!! They so often have kerbs that run from immediately behind them, parting the traffic flows into totally different directions (= different destinations) !!!Edited by Cliftonite on Tuesday 26th April 11:38
yellowjack said:
Absolute bks. Sorry, but you're not "entitled" to drive at the speed limit. It is the legally enforceable maximum speed which you are not permitted to exceed. There are bajillions of variable factors which may preclude you from travelling at the prescribed limit. You don't get to ignore all the other st that's going on in the world and just focus on the limit, and to suggest that 1 person travelling at less than the limit could be a cause of significant delay is pretty silly.
Case in point? This morning I drove a road that I drive 4 or 5 times a week. It has a speed limit of 30 miles per hour. Recently reduced from 40 miles per hour. I value my license, and it's lack of penalty points, so I obey the speed limit - often by using my electronic speed limiter. This morning, even with the limiter set, I was driving below it because I detest having to drive directly behind anyone, at ANY speed. I like to make my own driving decisions, not have someone else decide when I ought to brake, or how late I should apply the throttle exiting a bend. So there was a wee convoy up ahead, doing that 'concertina' thing that drivers do when they leave insufficient clear space between cars. My speed was about 25mph, the distance between me and the convoy? About 300 metres. So I was tailgated aggressively by some oaf in a mid-sized white van. Each time the 'convoy' reached a roundabout or one of it's number wanted to turn left or right, the convoy slowed and I began to close up. But here's the thing - each time the gap closed, I kept driving, kept moving forward, sometimes at the same constant, predictable, lower-than-the-limit speed as I was, sometimes with just a throttle lift to briefly slow. Then the gap would increase again. Van man was getting visibly irate, leaning to his right to look down the road. But he was too close to my rear end to take advantage of the large number of overtakes that were available. His problem, not mine. Anyway, we get to the end of the stretch, and the point of the tale. I turned left (1st exit) at the 'big' roundabout, which doesn't really involve entering the roundabout at all, as it has it's own lane onto the adjoining DC. Him in the van? Joins the bulk of the traffic queuing to go right at the roundabout, the traffic that formed the wee convoy I'd avoided joining. So even if I'd closed up tight and caused myself needless stress by not having that safe, relaxing gap, he would not have been a single millimetre further forward on the road after I turned off. But I'll bet he'll regale his workmates with tales of the "self-centered, smug bell-end" in the Mondeo who made him late for work this morning...
All very interesting, I'm sure. But you see, I am entitled to drive st the speed limit. Just as much as you are entitled not to. If you had highlighted the next sentence you quoted me on, rather than out of context, it would have leant less credence to your amusing ditty.ks. Sorry, but you're not "entitled" to drive at the speed limit. It is the legally enforceable maximum speed which you are not permitted to exceed. There are bajillions of variable factors which may preclude you from travelling at the prescribed limit. You don't get to ignore all the other st that's going on in the world and just focus on the limit, and to suggest that 1 person travelling at less than the limit could be a cause of significant delay is pretty silly.Case in point? This morning I drove a road that I drive 4 or 5 times a week. It has a speed limit of 30 miles per hour. Recently reduced from 40 miles per hour. I value my license, and it's lack of penalty points, so I obey the speed limit - often by using my electronic speed limiter. This morning, even with the limiter set, I was driving below it because I detest having to drive directly behind anyone, at ANY speed. I like to make my own driving decisions, not have someone else decide when I ought to brake, or how late I should apply the throttle exiting a bend. So there was a wee convoy up ahead, doing that 'concertina' thing that drivers do when they leave insufficient clear space between cars. My speed was about 25mph, the distance between me and the convoy? About 300 metres. So I was tailgated aggressively by some oaf in a mid-sized white van. Each time the 'convoy' reached a roundabout or one of it's number wanted to turn left or right, the convoy slowed and I began to close up. But here's the thing - each time the gap closed, I kept driving, kept moving forward, sometimes at the same constant, predictable, lower-than-the-limit speed as I was, sometimes with just a throttle lift to briefly slow. Then the gap would increase again. Van man was getting visibly irate, leaning to his right to look down the road. But he was too close to my rear end to take advantage of the large number of overtakes that were available. His problem, not mine. Anyway, we get to the end of the stretch, and the point of the tale. I turned left (1st exit) at the 'big' roundabout, which doesn't really involve entering the roundabout at all, as it has it's own lane onto the adjoining DC. Him in the van? Joins the bulk of the traffic queuing to go right at the roundabout, the traffic that formed the wee convoy I'd avoided joining. So even if I'd closed up tight and caused myself needless stress by not having that safe, relaxing gap, he would not have been a single millimetre further forward on the road after I turned off. But I'll bet he'll regale his workmates with tales of the "self-centered, smug bell-end" in the Mondeo who made him late for work this morning...
Perhaps you can explain why I am not entitled to drive at the speed limit?
Tyre Smoke said:
All very interesting, I'm sure. But you see, I am entitled to drive st the speed limit. Just as much as you are entitled not to. If you had highlighted the next sentence you quoted me on, rather than out of context, it would have leant less credence to your amusing ditty.
Perhaps you can explain why I am not entitled to drive at the speed limit?
As you have acknowledged, I did not quote out of context. I quoted in full, deliberately to preserve the context. I highlighted what I highlighted deliberately too, as it was the point I was responding to. Perhaps you can explain why I am not entitled to drive at the speed limit?
Perhaps you meant to say that it would have lent less credence, instead of "would have leant less credence"?? I can't be sure.
On top of that, I thought it quite clear that I'd explained why you are not entitled to drive at the speed limit. In so far as that there are MANY reasons why you can't always do that. Take a narrow country lane, the kind without passing places. It may well have a NSL sign, but regardless of the legality, no sane person would presume to drive blindly at unsighted corners simply "because entitled". On other, wider roads traffic ahead of you may wish to turn right, and need to wait for a safe gap. Regardless of the posted limit, you may have to come to a complete halt to permit this turn. The position of the other vehicle as a hazard to be negotiated has 'trumped' your "entitlement. That is what I meant, and before you start to tear into this logic, that's far from an exhaustive list of examples.
So I'm afraid that I'm going to repeat my assertion. You are NOT "entitled" to proceed at the posted speed limit, unless your way ahead is clear, you can see it to be clear, and you can reasonably expect it to remain so. Often, regardless of the posted limit, a proficient driver will proceed more slowly than said limit, because he adheres to the driving technique of adjusting his speed (up and/or down) so as to be able to stop within the distance he can see to be clear. Clear enough for you?
Cliftonite said:
OpulentBob said:
He didn't develop the plan. He signed it off following a large, well-publicised request for input on the previous TSRGD from those who know it and use it every day, other relevant interested parties, road "enthusiast" groups etc. It's been going on for the last couple of years.
Leaving even more decisions regarding signage to Councils is a mistake. How many 'Keep Left' signs does one see when it is usual, necessary even, to pass them on the right? As for the 'Pass Either Side For Same Destination ' signs!!! They so often have kerbs that run from immediately behind them, parting the traffic flows into totally different directions (= different destinations) !!!It is government policy that LA's can, in certain circumstances, relax the criteria for repeaters. How much experience have you got with the TSRGD and the sign siting requirements? The relaxations proposed have zero bearing on the arrows shown on beacon faces at splitter islands.
AH33 said:
Maybe those guys just think the 40>30 limit change was a stupid idea and are ignoring it?
Maybe so. But the fact remains that a road that in previous years had a 40mph limit along the whole of it's length, from the A30 to the A325, now has barely 300 yds of 40mph limit, the remainder having been reduced to 30mph bit by bit over the last few years.To be honest, I too think the limit change was not called for, save for a small but very vocal minority of locals, but I'm going to be sticking to it in the main because I like my license the way it currently is. Clean.
As I've said before, I've no dogmatic objection to other folk driving more quickly than me, nor to exceeding the limits, within safe margins. But I'm going to keep to the posted limits +/- a few percent because whilst I may not agree with the law, I feel bound to obey it, or at least to try to obey it.
Regardless of whether you believe a speed limit is set correctly for a particular set of hazards on a particular road or not, if you are exceeding it and approach a vehicle ahead what's driver is obeying the limit, then either slow down, and maintain a safe gap to that vehicle, or if circumstances allow, overtake it. I don't set out to hold anyone up, but I similarly don't care if your trousers are on fire, or your granny is about to breathe her last - don't tailgate, aggressively or otherwise. It causes unnecessary stress, and can be dangerous. Speed up, pass and f
k off, or drop back? Your choice, I don't care either way. But don't presume you'll get anywhere by trying to intimidate me. I can assure you that you won't. Entitled - Believing oneself to be inherently deserving of privileges or special treatment
Tyre Smoke said:
All very interesting, I'm sure. But you see, I am entitled to drive st the speed limit. Just as much as you are entitled not to. If you had highlighted the next sentence you quoted me on, rather than out of context, it would have leant less credence to your amusing ditty.
Perhaps you can explain why I am not entitled to drive at the speed limit?
Simple, nobody is!Perhaps you can explain why I am not entitled to drive at the speed limit?
OpulentBob said:
What are you talking about? Have you been drinking or watching too much Countdown? You shouldn't pass a keep left on the right.
It is government policy that LA's can, in certain circumstances, relax the criteria for repeaters. How much experience have you got with the TSRGD and the sign siting requirements? The relaxations proposed have zero bearing on the arrows shown on beacon faces at splitter islands.
I gave you two clear examples why LAs should not be trusted with using discretion in road signage. They cannot get it right when they have it written in a book for them, with clear pictures and easy words. It is government policy that LA's can, in certain circumstances, relax the criteria for repeaters. How much experience have you got with the TSRGD and the sign siting requirements? The relaxations proposed have zero bearing on the arrows shown on beacon faces at splitter islands.
Here is just one example of the numerous Keep Left signs passed on the right by hundreds of vehicles each day (until the idiots in charge were told of their mistake and corrected it):
And I am sorry go learn from you that the 'Pass Either Side' anomaly (i.e. foul up) has not been addressed by the current wave of changes.
I find that my views regarding repeaters have already been well aired here:
http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?t=158...
I must say, though, that you put in a valiant effort in trying to defend the indefensible there. Well done!
You may not have convinced everybody, though!
Of course the speed limit is a limit, but there are many factors influencing the practical speed which you should not drop below at any given time. Driving is a constant interaction with other drivers. It's a social activity! You cannot avoid it. The bigger concern is the attitude of "I'm doing what I'm doing and others can do what they like". You can't do that. You need to adjust your behaviour to the scenario, and other people. Just approaching every road as "I'm doing 10mph under the limit and that's me" is dangerous. You're not accounting for, and as a result probably not paying attention to what's going on around you.
Blown2CV said:
Of course the speed limit is a limit, but there are many factors influencing the practical speed which you should not drop below at any given time. Driving is a constant interaction with other drivers. It's a social activity! You cannot avoid it. The bigger concern is the attitude of "I'm doing what I'm doing and others can do what they like". You can't do that. You need to adjust your behaviour to the scenario, and other people. Just approaching every road as "I'm doing 10mph under the limit and that's me" is dangerous. You're not accounting for, and as a result probably not paying attention to what's going on around you.
Not sure why anybody is responding to him- the guy is clearly not all there (I was going to call him something else but thought I'd give him the benefit of the doubt!)craig1912 said:
Blown2CV said:
Of course the speed limit is a limit, but there are many factors influencing the practical speed which you should not drop below at any given time. Driving is a constant interaction with other drivers. It's a social activity! You cannot avoid it. The bigger concern is the attitude of "I'm doing what I'm doing and others can do what they like". You can't do that. You need to adjust your behaviour to the scenario, and other people. Just approaching every road as "I'm doing 10mph under the limit and that's me" is dangerous. You're not accounting for, and as a result probably not paying attention to what's going on around you.
Not sure why anybody is responding to him- the guy is clearly not all there (I was going to call him something else but thought I'd give him the benefit of the doubt!)The idiots that create a turn right lane that isn't on my drive home,where Woodmansterne Lane turns right
and remains Woodmansterne Lane,bizarrely.......where Little Woodcote road ends.
Bloke in an Avensis in front of me did it tonight and bloke in Mazda behind me followed.
By this time next week,all the copycat knobs will be doing it and I'll have to go the other way home to retain sanity.
and remains Woodmansterne Lane,bizarrely.......where Little Woodcote road ends.
Bloke in an Avensis in front of me did it tonight and bloke in Mazda behind me followed.
By this time next week,all the copycat knobs will be doing it and I'll have to go the other way home to retain sanity.
Europa1 said:
WD39 said:
Simple. I choose to drive slower, and have done for many years.
There is always a long gap in front of me to allow OT.
Anyway, 60 / 65 on a MW/DC is not slow, and keeping to the speed limit? Well that really is a no brainer isn't it?
I have never been a rolling road block. If there are cars behind me then I would suggest that are patient, responsible drivers who have no wish to OT me and are happy not to arrive at their destination five minutes early.
Hey, let's all ease off a bit.
You'll be suggesting we all join APIS next...There is always a long gap in front of me to allow OT.
Anyway, 60 / 65 on a MW/DC is not slow, and keeping to the speed limit? Well that really is a no brainer isn't it?
I have never been a rolling road block. If there are cars behind me then I would suggest that are patient, responsible drivers who have no wish to OT me and are happy not to arrive at their destination five minutes early.
Hey, let's all ease off a bit.
Tyre Smoke said:
WD39 said:
ORD said:
You've still not answered WHY you would choose to drive at below the posted limit and so become a rolling road block.
Simple. I choose to drive slower, and have done for many years.There is always a long gap in front of me to allow OT.
Anyway, 60 / 65 on a MW/DC is not slow, and keeping to the speed limit? Well that really is a no brainer isn't it?
I have never been a rolling road block. If there are cars behind me then I would suggest that are patient, responsible drivers who have no wish to OT me and are happy not to arrive at their destination five minutes early.
Hey, let's all ease off a bit.
If I choose to drive at the speed limit, I am entitled to. Providing I am not endangering others, etc, etc. You are entitled to drive at whatever speed you deem appropriate, as long as you are not inconveniencing others who wish to go faster. You have no right, moral or legal to forcibly impose your driving style on others.
Do you, perchance drive a) A Citroen Xsara Picasso b) A Honda Jazz c) A Nissan Micra d) An old Rover?
I'm reassured to read that your argument has been demolished by other posters.
Ironically I have owned all the cars you mention in my 46 years of driving but none currently.
Tyre Smoke said:
So, I am rushing to the hospital because of some family accident/tragedy, you are on the motorway sailing along at 60 mph and overtaking an artic doing 56mph. On a busy motorway, how long do you think it would be before you have cause a tailback? Less than a minute. I arrive at the hospital too late. All because of you, you self centred smug bell end.
If I choose to drive at the speed limit, I am entitled to. Providing I am not endangering others, etc, etc. You are entitled to drive at whatever speed you deem appropriate, as long as you are not inconveniencing others who wish to go faster. You have no right, moral or legal to forcibly impose your driving style on others.
Do you, perchance drive a) A Citroen Xsara Picasso b) A Honda Jazz c) A Nissan Micra d) An old Rover?
You would be more of a danger rushing to get to the hospital.If I choose to drive at the speed limit, I am entitled to. Providing I am not endangering others, etc, etc. You are entitled to drive at whatever speed you deem appropriate, as long as you are not inconveniencing others who wish to go faster. You have no right, moral or legal to forcibly impose your driving style on others.
Do you, perchance drive a) A Citroen Xsara Picasso b) A Honda Jazz c) A Nissan Micra d) An old Rover?
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