One single thing that makes you think "knob" Vol 3
Discussion
I think the very valid point being made is that:
You very very rarely see a motorist drive through an ESTABLISHED red light.
By established, I mean a light that was visibly red, a few seconds BEFORE the road user reached the stop line.
I'm not saying it does not happen (at all), buts its very-very-very rare for a car, motorbike, bus or lorry to ignore a RED light as they approach it.
You very very rarely see a motorist drive through an ESTABLISHED red light.
By established, I mean a light that was visibly red, a few seconds BEFORE the road user reached the stop line.
I'm not saying it does not happen (at all), buts its very-very-very rare for a car, motorbike, bus or lorry to ignore a RED light as they approach it.
Hol said:
I think the very valid point being made is that:
You very very rarely see a motorist drive through an ESTABLISHED red light.
By established, I mean a light that was visibly red, a few seconds BEFORE the road user reached the stop line.
I'm not saying it does not happen (at all), buts its very-very-very rare for a car, motorbike, bus or lorry to ignore a RED light as they approach it.
It's not valid if you're complaining about people breaking the rules. The rules aren't "it's ok to go through an amber, or a red light if it's only been red for a second". The rules are "stop at an Amber unless it's dangerous to do so".You very very rarely see a motorist drive through an ESTABLISHED red light.
By established, I mean a light that was visibly red, a few seconds BEFORE the road user reached the stop line.
I'm not saying it does not happen (at all), buts its very-very-very rare for a car, motorbike, bus or lorry to ignore a RED light as they approach it.
Hol said:
I think the very valid point being made is that:
You very very rarely see a motorist drive through an ESTABLISHED red light.
By established, I mean a light that was visibly red, a few seconds BEFORE the road user reached the stop line.
I'm not saying it does not happen (at all), buts its very-very-very rare for a car, motorbike, bus or lorry to ignore a RED light as they approach it.
This is true.You very very rarely see a motorist drive through an ESTABLISHED red light.
By established, I mean a light that was visibly red, a few seconds BEFORE the road user reached the stop line.
I'm not saying it does not happen (at all), buts its very-very-very rare for a car, motorbike, bus or lorry to ignore a RED light as they approach it.
I see far more cyclists jump ESTABLISHED red lights than I have ever seen any other road vehicles do. That and not stopping at stop signs, not giving way, not recognising zebra crossings, &c., &c... They do seem surprised when told that the rules of the road also apply to them.
I also very rarely see motor vehicles driving on the pavement, as well...
Mave said:
It's not valid if you're complaining about people breaking the rules. The rules aren't "it's ok to go through an amber, or a red light if it's only been red for a second". The rules are "stop at an Amber unless it's dangerous to do so".
I've been flashed for stopping on amber before now, but then I've also been hooted for not going on amber as well, so I suppose it evens out... 
Edited by Phon_E87 on Thursday 18th August 09:03
Mave said:
Hol said:
I think the very valid point being made is that:
You very very rarely see a motorist drive through an ESTABLISHED red light.
By established, I mean a light that was visibly red, a few seconds BEFORE the road user reached the stop line.
I'm not saying it does not happen (at all), buts its very-very-very rare for a car, motorbike, bus or lorry to ignore a RED light as they approach it.
It's not valid if you're complaining about people breaking the rules. The rules aren't "it's ok to go through an amber, or a red light if it's only been red for a second". The rules are "stop at an Amber unless it's dangerous to do so".You very very rarely see a motorist drive through an ESTABLISHED red light.
By established, I mean a light that was visibly red, a few seconds BEFORE the road user reached the stop line.
I'm not saying it does not happen (at all), buts its very-very-very rare for a car, motorbike, bus or lorry to ignore a RED light as they approach it.
Everybody else is clear on the subject and is talking about running an established red light..
Mave said:
BigLion said:
spookly said:
Mave said:
spookly said:
I've never seen any stats so I have no idea what they would say or even how they would collect them as most of them go unseen/unpunished.
And I rarely see anyone run actual red lights. Sometimes I'll see someone running an amber light a bit close, but never just driving on through on a red.
So running an amber light is ok?And I rarely see anyone run actual red lights. Sometimes I'll see someone running an amber light a bit close, but never just driving on through on a red.
Where did I say I condone running amber lights?
What I actually said is that I almost never see people running red lights, but sometimes see people running amber lights. Where did I say that I condone running amber lights or that I'd do it myself?
Bloody mouth breathers abound on this site.
PHs really has some thick people kicking around, but just reading it is entertaining.
It's the tangential questions to a valid post that tickle me most.
The issue is more that you seem to not bother reading what people write, and just respond to what you seem to think people said. I can only assume your teachers at school were tearing their hair out while trying to teach you English comprehension skills.
As the saying goes - never get into an argument with an idiot, they'll only drag you down to their level
Mave said:
It's not valid if you're complaining about people breaking the rules. The rules aren't "it's ok to go through an amber, or a red light if it's only been red for a second". The rules are "stop at an Amber unless it's dangerous to do so".
Actually it's stop at Amber unless you've already crossed the stop line or are so close to it that to do so MIGHT cause an accident. It's subjective and I'm a pedant.
Hol said:
Mave said:
Hol said:
I think the very valid point being made is that:
You very very rarely see a motorist drive through an ESTABLISHED red light.
By established, I mean a light that was visibly red, a few seconds BEFORE the road user reached the stop line.
I'm not saying it does not happen (at all), buts its very-very-very rare for a car, motorbike, bus or lorry to ignore a RED light as they approach it.
It's not valid if you're complaining about people breaking the rules. The rules aren't "it's ok to go through an amber, or a red light if it's only been red for a second". The rules are "stop at an Amber unless it's dangerous to do so".You very very rarely see a motorist drive through an ESTABLISHED red light.
By established, I mean a light that was visibly red, a few seconds BEFORE the road user reached the stop line.
I'm not saying it does not happen (at all), buts its very-very-very rare for a car, motorbike, bus or lorry to ignore a RED light as they approach it.
Everybody else is clear on the subject and is talking about running an established red light..
Mave said:
Hol said:
I think the very valid point being made is that:
You very very rarely see a motorist drive through an ESTABLISHED red light.
By established, I mean a light that was visibly red, a few seconds BEFORE the road user reached the stop line.
I'm not saying it does not happen (at all), buts its very-very-very rare for a car, motorbike, bus or lorry to ignore a RED light as they approach it.
It's not valid if you're complaining about people breaking the rules. The rules aren't "it's ok to go through an amber, or a red light if it's only been red for a second". The rules are "stop at an Amber unless it's dangerous to do so".You very very rarely see a motorist drive through an ESTABLISHED red light.
By established, I mean a light that was visibly red, a few seconds BEFORE the road user reached the stop line.
I'm not saying it does not happen (at all), buts its very-very-very rare for a car, motorbike, bus or lorry to ignore a RED light as they approach it.
What Hol said is a perfectly valid point. And exactly what I was trying to get into your thick skull.
I agree completely with what Hol has observed. My observations:
- You very, very rarely see most types of vehicle run red lights more than a second or so after they turn red.
- You'll often see cyclists roll up the inside of traffic already waiting at a light that has been red far longer than a few seconds, roll over the line, then proceed if they think they won't get squished. I see this at least a few times a week.
spookly said:
I was in the discussion... and the issue isn't so much that you asked a tangential question.
The issue is more that you seem to not bother reading what people write, and just respond to what you seem to think people said. I can only assume your teachers at school were tearing their hair out while trying to teach you English comprehension skills.
As the saying goes - never get into an argument with an idiot, they'll only drag you down to their level
Are you unable to have a debate without bringing it down to a personal level? The reason for asking questions in a discussion is to understand, confirm or challenge a viewpoint. I read your post, it wasn't clear where you stood on amber gambling so I asked. I could have inferred what you though, but then i would be accused of putting words into your mouth....The issue is more that you seem to not bother reading what people write, and just respond to what you seem to think people said. I can only assume your teachers at school were tearing their hair out while trying to teach you English comprehension skills.
As the saying goes - never get into an argument with an idiot, they'll only drag you down to their level
Mave said:
No, the original discussion was about following the rules. Even in the post immediately before yours, Phon_87 has apparently talked to cyclists about "the rules of the road", and he's cherry picked examples of cyclist not following rules to illustrate his point.
Indeed he did.I'm not even sure why everyone's getting bent out of shape to be honest - it's like having an argument about whether you should park on a double yellow or do 70 in a 60.
The rules are pretty clear on all of these things so I fail to see why this even needs to go on and on - you can hardly argue round the point - (although that is what appears to be happening)...
1. Red Lights mean x
2. Amber means y
3. Green means z
I doubt very much if anyone's driving test would have gone that well if they'd just argued the toss everytime they came to a junction...
It doesn't matter how flagrantly you break the rules, you've still broken the rules. Firing through a red light that's only just red makes you just as much of a
as rolling through one a minute later.Edited by Phon_E87 on Thursday 18th August 09:30
spookly said:
I am actually starting to believe you have gone full retard here.
What Hol said is a perfectly valid point. And exactly what I was trying to get into your thick skull.
I agree completely with what Hol has observed. My observations:
That's fine but as I've said before that's a discussion about whether people are doing dangerous things, rather than a discussion about breaking the rules. If you want to talk about the dangers of people's behaviours around lights, let's talk about who is getting themselves killed, and who is killing other people.What Hol said is a perfectly valid point. And exactly what I was trying to get into your thick skull.
I agree completely with what Hol has observed. My observations:
- You very, very rarely see most types of vehicle run red lights more than a second or so after they turn red.
- You'll often see cyclists roll up the inside of traffic already waiting at a light that has been red far longer than a few seconds, roll over the line, then proceed if they think they won't get squished. I see this at least a few times a week.
BigLion said:
Personally I always go through amber and often speed up to do so.
Would never do this on Red as cars could be coming through.
The Amber GamblerWould never do this on Red as cars could be coming through.
Getting this thread back on topic....
People who are turning right across your path at traffic lights and attempt to drag race off the line to make the turn before you would hit them.
A junction near me, you get this all the time.
I even had a policewoman try it once. I was turning left, and was indicating. I just carried on as normal and she only just stopped before hitting my door. The she pulled me over a bit further up the road to have a word. I asked her what she thought she was playing at, and just as she started to go into lecture mode some bloke got out of an Impreza behind and said he'd be a witness to her stty driving :-) She then wound her neck in, apologised and left. Quality policing.
People who are turning right across your path at traffic lights and attempt to drag race off the line to make the turn before you would hit them.
A junction near me, you get this all the time.
I even had a policewoman try it once. I was turning left, and was indicating. I just carried on as normal and she only just stopped before hitting my door. The she pulled me over a bit further up the road to have a word. I asked her what she thought she was playing at, and just as she started to go into lecture mode some bloke got out of an Impreza behind and said he'd be a witness to her s
tty driving :-) She then wound her neck in, apologised and left. Quality policing.spookly said:
Getting this thread back on topic....
People who are turning right across your path at traffic lights and attempt to drag race off the line to make the turn before you would hit them.
A junction near me, you get this all the time.
I even had a policewoman try it once. I was turning left, and was indicating. I just carried on as normal and she only just stopped before hitting my door. The she pulled me over a bit further up the road to have a word. I asked her what she thought she was playing at, and just as she started to go into lecture mode some bloke got out of an Impreza behind and said he'd be a witness to her stty driving :-) She then wound her neck in, apologised and left. Quality policing.
Couple of places where I am that happens a lot. I wonder occasionally what's going through their mind when they try it on, but the answer is probably nothing so...People who are turning right across your path at traffic lights and attempt to drag race off the line to make the turn before you would hit them.
A junction near me, you get this all the time.
I even had a policewoman try it once. I was turning left, and was indicating. I just carried on as normal and she only just stopped before hitting my door. The she pulled me over a bit further up the road to have a word. I asked her what she thought she was playing at, and just as she started to go into lecture mode some bloke got out of an Impreza behind and said he'd be a witness to her s
tty driving :-) She then wound her neck in, apologised and left. Quality policing.Phon_E87 said:
...I also very rarely see motor vehicles driving on the pavement, as well...
Plenty of photos in this thread... http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a... ...to bust that particular myth.Unless you're the sort that believes a car can park on a footway without driving along it to get there.
yellowjack said:
Plenty of photos in this thread... http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a... ...to bust that particular myth.
Unless you're the sort that believes a car can park on a footway without driving along it to get there.
I said:Unless you're the sort that believes a car can park on a footway without driving along it to get there.
"I ALSO VERY RARELY SEE..." I did not say I never have, and nor did I imply it was a myth. And no, I'm not that sort.
But just for you:
"I also very rarely see motor vehicles driving on the pavement as well, whereas I've seen loads of cyclists do this, a great many times."
There, is that better for you?
I hope you're not a copper, because on the basis of the conclusions you've just come to along with the complete disregard for what I actually wrote, and its context, you'd make a lousy one.
Back on topic... the thing that instantly makes me think "knob" is narrow-mindedness.
I drive a lot of miles and I also like to ride my push bike. I've had a few BMWs and Audis over the years.
One would think that makes me the devil incarnate judging by some of the narrow-minded, generalised preconceptions spouted on here and elsewhere.
Cycling
For the record, I HATE seeing cyclists riding on the pavement and jumping red lights. Countless times I've been stationary at a red, taking a swig fro my water bottle while some complete cretin flies straight past, no doubt trying to better their PB on a Strava segment. I always think "cheers for that, you've just wound up a load of motorists who will now feel aggressive and unforgiving towards cyclists in general and put me in danger.
I also hate it from the other side when you see cyclists deliberately putting themselves into risky situations so they can feel all virtuous giving drivers a lecture. It does no harm to pull in for a few seconds and let motor traffic past. in fact you'll make the roads safer for everyone.
BMW/Audi
There are good drivers and st drivers. it seems to me that a lot of people remark on "typical BMW drivers" but ignore bad driving in other marques (or at the most, criticise the driver without saying (e.g.) "Typical Passat drivers").
I currently drive a dreadful (company-leased) Volvo V60 and have found that a lot more people are willing to let me out of junctions/into queuing traffic etc. I like to think that I'm a courteous driver and allow people to merge in turn etc. but I'm always more conscious of this when I'm driving a German motor as I feel obliged to prove that I'm not a cock just because I enjoy driving BMWs.
I drive a lot of miles and I also like to ride my push bike. I've had a few BMWs and Audis over the years.
One would think that makes me the devil incarnate judging by some of the narrow-minded, generalised preconceptions spouted on here and elsewhere.
Cycling
For the record, I HATE seeing cyclists riding on the pavement and jumping red lights. Countless times I've been stationary at a red, taking a swig fro my water bottle while some complete cretin flies straight past, no doubt trying to better their PB on a Strava segment. I always think "cheers for that, you've just wound up a load of motorists who will now feel aggressive and unforgiving towards cyclists in general and put me in danger.
I also hate it from the other side when you see cyclists deliberately putting themselves into risky situations so they can feel all virtuous giving drivers a lecture. It does no harm to pull in for a few seconds and let motor traffic past. in fact you'll make the roads safer for everyone.
BMW/Audi
There are good drivers and s
t drivers. it seems to me that a lot of people remark on "typical BMW drivers" but ignore bad driving in other marques (or at the most, criticise the driver without saying (e.g.) "Typical Passat drivers").I currently drive a dreadful (company-leased) Volvo V60 and have found that a lot more people are willing to let me out of junctions/into queuing traffic etc. I like to think that I'm a courteous driver and allow people to merge in turn etc. but I'm always more conscious of this when I'm driving a German motor as I feel obliged to prove that I'm not a cock just because I enjoy driving BMWs.
DRFC1879 said:
Cycling
For the record, I HATE seeing cyclists riding on the pavement and jumping red lights. Countless times I've been stationary at a red, taking a swig fro my water bottle while some complete cretin flies straight past, no doubt trying to better their PB on a Strava segment. I always think "cheers for that, you've just wound up a load of motorists who will now feel aggressive and unforgiving towards cyclists in general and put me in danger.
+1 The Stravaists are as bad as Pokemon chasers. Just as distracted, just as stupid and when you think about it just as futile. Oh, whoop I have the fastest time for this kilometer I should get myself some cake. For the record, I HATE seeing cyclists riding on the pavement and jumping red lights. Countless times I've been stationary at a red, taking a swig fro my water bottle while some complete cretin flies straight past, no doubt trying to better their PB on a Strava segment. I always think "cheers for that, you've just wound up a load of motorists who will now feel aggressive and unforgiving towards cyclists in general and put me in danger.
I have suggested that using a mobile phone whilst cycling should carry the same penalties as when driving. You are on the road you are traffic you should stick to the same rules as everyone else. The Road Traffic Act.
Stravaists need to get on with the important task of paying attention to what's going on around them not what their phone app' or watch is doing.
Liquid Knight said:
DRFC1879 said:
Cycling
For the record, I HATE seeing cyclists riding on the pavement and jumping red lights. Countless times I've been stationary at a red, taking a swig fro my water bottle while some complete cretin flies straight past, no doubt trying to better their PB on a Strava segment. I always think "cheers for that, you've just wound up a load of motorists who will now feel aggressive and unforgiving towards cyclists in general and put me in danger.
+1 The Stravaists are as bad as Pokemon chasers. Just as distracted, just as stupid and when you think about it just as futile. Oh, whoop I have the fastest time for this kilometer I should get myself some cake. For the record, I HATE seeing cyclists riding on the pavement and jumping red lights. Countless times I've been stationary at a red, taking a swig fro my water bottle while some complete cretin flies straight past, no doubt trying to better their PB on a Strava segment. I always think "cheers for that, you've just wound up a load of motorists who will now feel aggressive and unforgiving towards cyclists in general and put me in danger.
I have suggested that using a mobile phone whilst cycling should carry the same penalties as when driving. You are on the road you are traffic you should stick to the same rules as everyone else. The Road Traffic Act.
Stravaists need to get on with the important task of paying attention to what's going on around them not what their phone app' or watch is doing.
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