Friday 17th April 2015

Moment of glory: PH Blog

Dan picks the moment at which some of our favourite cars reached their natural peak - do you agree though?

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Looking at some of the classic lineages of cars that occupy the PH mindset it's fun to speculate on the moment at which everything came together and the pinnacle was reached. With some it was years back, others more recently. Others still have yet to peak.

Second-gen Clio RS the high water mark?

Although on the day I picked the third-gen Clio 197/200 as my favourite of the four generations I think I'll contradict myself by saying the 172/182 is actually the high water mark in that car's evolution. The Alien Green 200 I drove at Brands is a hell of a thing. And a hot hatch that focused will likely never be built again. But it's a sophisticated machine with exotic engineering that sets it apart from the true ethos of the proper hot hatch. As I said in the story, it's a standalone car.

The previous one - and fond memories of my old 172 Cup are weighing on my mind here - I think is the perfect combination of traditional hot hatch values and modern performance. The 197/200 is a serious car; the 172/182 is a supermini with a sod-off engine, just enough chassis tweaks to keep it on the road and not much else. It's honest, simple and massive fun but still looks and feels modern. And you can get one for Shed money, thrash it and not worry about investment potential. Proper.

911's high point, at least in Carrera form?

Running with the theme over the last few days I've been pondering other long-running fast car dynasties and trying to identify the moment things all came together perfectly. Inevitably my thoughts turned to Porsche 911s... We'll set aside the old ones for now and look to recent memory. For Carreras I reckon 993 is the one. It looks and feels like a classic and has enough of the quirks to be defiantly a traditional 911. But feels modern enough to cut it in the here and now. Spot on. For the hotter ones I'd go a generation newer though - the 996 GT3s and RSes are, I think, the sweet spot of size, usable performance, excitement and poise. Searing engines, grown up handling that rewards the gifted while taming the more psychopathic tendencies ... yup, one of them would do me fine, ta.

The Golf GTI? Tricky one! The original might well have been the best but I'd argue the Mk5 was the moment the looks, the heritage, the performance and technology all came together to create a truly great car.

The moment it all came together for the GTI?

Ferraris. For V12s the 250 family really nailed the brief, didn't it? But bringing things more up to date I think the 599 is the one with the style and performance that really captures the spirit of the modern V12 Ferrari. The F12? It's just gone a bit mental really. For the V8 Berlinettas I'll ignore the obvious charms of the F355 and go instead with the 458 Italia I think. With this car Ferrari has absolutely nailed how to make technology complementary to the driving experience, convince everyone they are a god behind the wheel without feeling patronised and managed the triple exhaust visual reference to the F40 without coming across as cheesy. The fact it's probably the last normally aspirated car of its type probably inspires this call too.

I'm on a roll now but I don't want to spoil everyone's fun. So I'll leave some hanging - BMW M3? Nissan Skyline/GT-R? Mitsubishi Evo? Impreza? AMG C-Classes? Over to you...

Dan

[Ryvita]

This idea is definitely bound for controversy. Clever article.

For M3... I'll stake a mark on the E46 CSL as being pretty hard to beat?

Other interesting ones to see views on would be the Lotus Elise, the BMW MINI, and maybe the Honda Civic Type-R?

[Mafffew]

Ryvita said:

BMW MINI?

Of the BMW Minis? Surely the R53 JCW GP

[b14]

With the Elise it was undoubtedly the S1 Sport 160 - proper little racing car.

[Actus Reus]

I'd agree about the Mk.V GTi,. but for me the basic 911 is best as a 997.2 - looks, pace, tech, basically everything came together in that car. The 991 doesn't really improve on it in any way.

I'd be interested to hear where people think the MX5 was best (as a recent convert and owner of an NA S-Special)...

[TurboHatchback]

Some of my own sentiments echoed there. I owned a 182 which for me is the definitive RS Clio (and the best hot hatch ever incidentally). I also owned a Mk5 GTI which was a revelation compared to earlier Golfs but I'm not sure the Mk7 isn't better (not having driven one) so I wouldn't know if it was the high water mark for the GTI.

[HorneyMX5]

GTI has to be the MKII. The MKV, while brilliant, lost the character and rawness of a proper hot hatch.

[Dave Hedgehog]

for me the EVO is the VI Extreme (with 450bhp upgrade)



V8 mid engined ferrari is the 360 CS

Edited by Dave Hedgehog on Friday 17th April 11:34

[Krikkit]

Impreza surely has to be the 22B, not perfect but the pinnacle of the nutter rally special imo.

[soad]

Nissan Skyline/GT-R?

R32 is a PlayStation favourite.

[Leins]

Ryvita said:

This idea is definitely bound for controversy. Clever article.

For M3... I'll stake a mark on the E46 CSL as being pretty hard to beat?

I'm biased, but even still I'd pick the E30 M3 SE over the E46 CSL

Mafffew said:

Of the BMW Minis? Surely the R53 JCW GP

I'm biased, and I agree

[Feeblebob]

For the M5, the E39, for the Mitsubishi Evo, the 9, entirely because I own both, and had no desire at all for any of the later versions, both the last manual 'mechanical' (as opposed to electronic, flappy paddle types) examples of each breed.

[Gmund]

Ryvita said:

This idea is definitely bound for controversy. Clever article.

For M3... I'll stake a mark on the E46 CSL as being pretty hard to beat?

Other interesting ones to see views on would be the Lotus Elise, the BMW MINI, and maybe the Honda Civic Type-R?

Agreed on E46, but I'd remove the L off the end, and choose the manual CS. The CSL sounds incredible mind!

[optimal909]

soad said:

Nissan Skyline/GT-R?

R32 is a PlayStation favourite.

For me it has to be the final R34 V Spec Nür.

[Leins]

190/C-class:




E-class:

[hondafanatic]

optimal909 said:

soad said:

Nissan Skyline/GT-R?

R32 is a PlayStation favourite.

For me it has to be the final R34 V Spec Nür.

I agree...R34.

[Tickle]

b14 said:

With the Elise it was undoubtedly the S1 Sport 160 - proper little racing car.

Or an S1 111s

[epom]

Krikkit said:

Impreza surely has to be the 22B, not perfect but the pinnacle of the nutter rally special imo.

I want a 22B always have and will do some day. By far and away my favourite. However it seems the best Impreza going by tests and group reviews etc was the RB5 WR.

[Devil2575]

Ryvita said:

For M3... I'll stake a mark on the E46 CSL as being pretty hard to beat?

Surely it's the E30...

[Niffty951]

Easy (well):

BMW M3 - E46 Usable daily, bullet proof engine (although sounded a bit digital after the E36), shortest wheelbase, best looking, best differential.

Nissan Skyline/GT-R - R32 First of an era, replacements just used the same recipe and what ever happened to switchable RWD/4WD?

Mitsubishi Evo - Never been in one but the Evo 8 says EVO to me.

Impreza - Has to be the McRea era. (1995ish) You only have to spend 60 seconds behind the wheel of one again and you become sad at how soggy/fat all the replacements were.

AMG C-Classes - Again not a car I've owned but I hear great things about the last of the supercharged era.

[CS400]

epom said:

Krikkit said:

Impreza surely has to be the 22B, not perfect but the pinnacle of the nutter rally special imo.

I want a 22B always have and will do some day. By far and away my favourite. However it seems the best Impreza going by tests and group reviews etc was the RB5 WR.

I know it goes against the grain (and I am a bit biased) but for me I think the Cosworth was the best . Unfortunately there wasn't enough made for there to be many proper reviews or much owner feedback.